poodlefan

What Cosmolo said, I have met a fair few people with bull breed x's and the vast majority were rescues quite often via the RSPCA and AWL meaning they would also have been temp tested.

Given that it has been illegal to rehome a dog of Restricted Breed in most states for some time, those owners need to contact the place they got their dog from and get the paperwork for the dog's breed description, IF they don't already have it.

Council rangers may be the so called "experts" in breed ID now but a piece of paper saying the dog is not a restricted breed should count for something.

And why shouldn't someone with a dog on Associate Register who has particpated in ANKC

events, trained their dog etc. Not expect to get some kind of protection for their dog

from an organisation that has been taking their money over the years?

I agree. I said as much. What I object to is the idea that the ANKC should be providing an Ark of protection for dogs and owners based on breed description when that simply cannot be verified. We should be FIGHTING ALL legislation that suggests that breed alone is enough predict whether a dog is 'dangerous' OR 'safe.

I think the ANKC will probably be busy enough keeping the Amstaff out of the firing line.

Maybe i am being overly sensitive but am i the only one who is getting tired of hearing things along the lines of 'don't buy dogs without papers' and 'you shouldn't have bought a bull breed cross with no papers'.

Of course we won't do it again- which is sad beause i always thought i would have rescue bull arab types in my life. But its too late now- we already have these dogs that we love and are part of our families.

Perhaps not. But perhaps I am a bit over people seemingly wishing to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted Cosmolo. And to suggest that those who are responsible for breeding dogs that aren't in the crossfire should charge to the rescue doesn't sit well with me. The ANKC has enough issues 'protecting' purebred dogs at the moment. That they should be asked to certify the breed status of dogs with indeterminate breed status is a bridge too far for me.

I suppose my anger is directed more towards people who are continuing to breed and sell such dogs in the current climate when its folk like you that face potential heartbreak. Its utterly irresponsible IMO and it seems to be the first step in a chain of irresponsible behaviour that ends in a page 1 story of a dog attack.

Any dog that passes through a pound into rescue under these current laws must have been deemed "not a pitbull" at some stage. The key will be to get and KEEP paperwork that outlines that decision. If you are getting your bull breed rescues from pounds they should be as safe as houses.

Why you simply couldn't put a pair of 'bitch pants' on her and let her live her normal life beats me.

*sigh* Well that's a shame.

I would've thought if it was a Cross Breed or Unregistered it should have been desexed

anyway, and didn't think that would have been a hurdle.

I love a dreamer!! Most of the crossbred dogs that feature in the media stories of attacks are undesexed males.

I wonder if it is a possiblity that could be pursued as a small ray of hope for

some people who have Rescues or active participants in obedience and agility

with their cross breeds.

I would think it neither wise, nor likely that the ANKC would attest to the breed origins of a crossbreed that simply cannot be verified. What breeds a dog "looks" to be and what they actually are can vary significantly.

ANKC seem willing to allow Judges to contribute to the ID 'Standard' of what a

Pitbull or its cross may be. Why can't they stand up for those that aren't, but

some not quite experienced council worker might deem IS. Especially if they

already are registered as an Associate with the ANKC.

I don't agree with using ANKC judges to contribute to the breed standard of a dog they will never judge (and have no experience in judging) but similarly I don't agree that they should be called upon to stick a wet finger in the air and verify the breed origins of a dog based simply on physical appearance.

The answer to 'protecting' peoples dogs is quite simple really. It lies with OWNERS. Don't buy dogs you know are going to be in the crosshairs without pedigree papers. In that regard, the ANKC stands willing to assist. Why they should be expected to defend dogs that aren't registered with them or owned by members beats me. If an existing Associate come under fire, that's another matter. But I find that highly unlikely.

So, as I'm driving to work I'm still thinking about all this BSL and how the hell do you prove

that your dog is not a Pitbull when it doesn't have registration papers or is a crossbreed.

I've never had a dog registered with ANKC as an associate dog before, so I put it to you guys.

Do they issue paperwork for these dogs stating their breed/cross breed? And if they do, would

this be deemed acceptable by councils as proof of Breed?

Would having an assessment by an ANKC judge qualified to judge Amstaffs etc, then a Stat

Dec signed by the Judge, presented to a Vet (willing to id the dog and sign their name to it),

be an acceptable proof of Breed?

No, associate dogs are registered simply as "Associates". They must be desexed in order to be registered.

I can only hope that people heed the warnings that have been given for the past 5 years and stop buying bull breeds without papers.

thank you. Ill have a better look later when I have more time.

that abstract talks about it between 3 and 6 months doesnt it - unless I rushed through and missed something.Ill go back later

It talks about the maternal environment too.

I'm the crazy dog lady who hates pet shop and puppy farm purchases and that's fine by me.

I've helped a colleague source a purebred Boxer and will do the same when someone I work with is ready for a Rhodesian Ridgeback.

Another colleague has a pet shop oodle. It arrived with ring worm. It's had mange and a Uti. They didn't realise that it would come in season so early. She says its 'very naughty' and I've told her given that its had no training, its not fair to blame the dog for its behaviour. Won't be winning any popularity contests in that area anytime soon but it really is just a nightmare from start to finish.

Added the article link I found to my last post Steve.

Pups whelped and raised in 'commerical' settings that don't get a lot of human contact in their first three weeks can be wary of strangers for life.

Ideal family dogs are whelped and raised in family homes, not sheds. Pups raised in sheds are big question marks on temperament because no one sees them enough to know what they're like and a buyers best measure of temperament (the pups mother) is not seen by them.

That's a message that has research to back it and that could be flogged hard without denigrating any crossbred dog. Best not to be elitist in our arguments and facts are that purebred dogs also get produced in such settings with the same results.

Got a reference for that ?

OK, here we go

The domestic dog: its evolution, behaviour, and interactions with people By James Serpell notes higher levels of 'problem' and fearful behaviours in pups not whelped in domestic environments (try page 89-91) You can read it online.

Behavioural effects of differential early experience in the dog

M.W. Foxa, D. Stelznera

Scott and Fuller seem to be the most frequently quoted authors on this.

ETA: Eureka.. found it.

Link to abstract

Pups whelped and raised in 'commerical' settings that don't get a lot of human contact in their first three weeks can be wary of strangers for life.

Ideal family dogs are whelped and raised in family homes, not sheds. Pups raised in sheds are big question marks on temperament because no one sees them enough to know what they're like and a buyers best measure of temperament (the pups mother) is not seen by them.

That's a message that has research to back it and that could be flogged hard without denigrating any crossbred dog. Best not to be elitist in our arguments and facts are that purebred dogs also get produced in such settings with the same results.

Got a reference for that ?

UQ Study touches on it but let me hunt for it.

Pups whelped and raised in 'commerical' settings that don't get a lot of human contact in their first three weeks can be wary of strangers for life.

Ideal family dogs are whelped and raised in family homes, not sheds. Pups raised in sheds are big question marks on temperament because no one sees them enough to know what they're like and a buyers best measure of temperament (the pups mother) is not seen by them.

That's a message that has research to back it and that could be flogged hard without denigrating any crossbred dog. Best not to be elitist in our arguments and facts are that purebred dogs also get produced in such settings with the same results.

I would use whey powder. It's nearly pure protein and very easily digested.

Body builders often use it.

Darcy my poodle had a bad bout related to IVDD three years ago. His issue is in his neck.

He had severe pain and partial paralysis and the drug combination that worked for him was Tramal and Valium

He had x-rays and I took him to Sydney for a consult with a veterinary neurologist. Darce has a spinal deformity - two completely fused vertebrae in his neck which can put pressure on the disc behind. I was advised that an MRI and surgery were not going to be helpful. I was also advised that it might never happen again. In consultation with my vet, this is how we manage it.

Keep him lean

No excessive jumping - his agility career ceased that day.

No chasing balls (sadly his favourite activity)

He is also chiropracted monthly and so far no repeat. My vet has told me that as he ages and his muscles weaken, further incidents are likely. Her advice was that Darcy is unlikely to make old bones. Darce is now 8.

I honestly believe chiro is key. Darce had missed a visit prior to the incident.

I don't know what I"ll do if and when new problems emerge. I can't stand to see a dog in pain and Darce is simply not himself when on the medication he needs to assist with the pain.

I do respect your opinions, Poodlefan, I really do, but PA did not say she had taken her dogs off it & the drinking stopped, she said she was going to take them off it, so until she puts them back onto another food we will not know.

There have been other posters who've reported the drinking and that it stopped when the food was discontinued.

I'm not knocking the food - but that is what some who've fed it reported.

Excessive drinking in dogs can be caused by roughly 67 different conditions...I would like to know what is, if any, connection with feeding them BH. Also, do they urinate more??? Have they been switched over too quick??? What were they eating before BH & for how long were they being fed XYZ??? What are they eating with it & how much BH do they get???? What treats do they get...it may be a combination of something else they are being fed, which is being doubled up by giving them BH??? Were they maybe not drinking enough before & now they are normal???? I am sure BH, like any other food upsets some dogs, but if I had a dog which couldn't stop drinking, I would have it checked by the vet. It could be one of up to 67 different problems including Diabetes or kidneys. I wouldn't just be saying that since my dogs have been eating such & such a food they have excessive thirst...I would want to know why???? Also if your dog is getting too fat on it, then obviously you are feeding it too much.

If taking the dogs off the food stops the excessive drinking, I'd have thought cause and effect was patently obvious.

Personally I have never held with the 'change food slowly' adage and my dogs have never suffered any ill effects from food changes. I actually don't know anyone with a dog that has.

Lots of positive vibes coming from here.

The other thing I thought of was wasp or bee sting in the mouth.

Given the swollen head, that was my first thought. I've googled cane toad poisoning and it doesn't mention swelling.

We need Danielle back for an update.

What are the symptoms of cane toad poisoning???

I spoke to her, she's got phenergan, she's giving it to her now, I just hope she doesn't choke on it! Poor doggy! My poor friend is a wreck!

It shouldn't hurt and it might help. Antihistamines are pretty safe.

Fingers crossed it does the trick

Almost any human allergy medication will do.. Clarytyne, Teldane etc.

Here's a link for dosages

Could be a insect bite. Has she got any antihistamines in the house??

V. interesting articles - thanks for sharing.

I'm doing my time in the corporate space for now, but when I have the money (and it's not if, it's when - I'm committed lol) I will be personally attempting to develop a doberman as their creator intended for them to be with erect ears (or connecting and collaborating with others looking to do the same). I feel that their tail enhances their agility - I see mine use his when moving at high speeds and as a rudder when swimming, and I use it myself to grab onto lol so I would like to see them keep that. The only thing is, I note that compared to breeds that have always had a tail, the doberman carries his tail high and consequently it's a weapon of mass destruction and pain, so I would like introduce the low carriage tail - like in the german shepherd etc.

Issue is, the bob-tail is dominant, erect ears are not - they are neither dominant nor recessive - so you would need several generations to change that. And how would I maintain all the other traits we so love about our dobies - eg temperament, short coats etc - well I don't know, but it's a goal none the less.

Tail carriage is very much a function of croup shape.. if you want a low tail, consider whether or not you want the topline a GSD has.

Sorting out Dobe spinal issues might be a useful priority with ramifications beyond the cosmetic. My dogs' chiropractor puts Dobes in the top 3 breeds he sees with skeletal problems.

Are you talking about IVDD?

I use Supercoat kibble, which is one of the cheaper brands. She really liked Purina Pro Plan, but last time i checked it was $60 for a bag even smaller!

Can you freeze bones? (If i buy some weekly and then take them out each day etc)

thanks.

With Supercoat, you're spending most of the money on stuff that comes out her back end. With a better quality kibble you feed less so it lasts longer.

Yes, you can freeze bones. By bones by the way, we're talking about fully digestable bones like chicken wings and carcasses.