poodlefan

Put it in sporting clip... no long ears and no pom on the tail - looks great on boys! My friend bought her husband a T-shirt when the first poodle pup arrived. It said "The Poodle is NOT with Me" He was a total convert within days. Tell your partner that there are some very famous male poodle owners. Here's one:

For a dog that big, I'd be tempted to look at pre-fab cubby houses! How does she get shelter from the elements now?

Give the OP some space peeps. She'll post if and when she's ready.

So, dogs that get desexed at the Uni through the pound system shouldnt be, as it is a surgical procedure and of lower standard? Dogs that get desexed via the pound system don't have owners who'll sue.

Do you think its ethical and humane to practice elective procedures like desexing on unhealthy animals? How do you know if you've got anasthesia right? How do you learn what's "normal"? How well does the animal recover? And how does an L-Plated vet student do a half decent job of non-routine procedures on someone's loved pet? One accidental nick with a scalpel can lead to death.. is that good enough? If there were simple, viable alternatives to what's happening now, don't you think they'd be doing it? Nice for the conscientious objectors to be honing their skills on shelter animals - what happens if they botch it? Same as happens now I'd say - the animal dies. They just get to feel better about it. I think there are further avenues that can be explored in this area... but lets not slam the gate on what happens now.

Go to most agility and obedience trials and that's exactly what you'll find around here.. the next generation of sports dogs being gushed over by clucky dog tragics!! You can't buy socialisation experiences as good as you can get at shows and trials IMO.

I find the idea that a poorer family's pets should have lower standards of vet care far less palatable than the current situation. Mistakes still would get buried - but in this case they'd be those family pets. As I said, great idea for non-surgical stuff, not so good for the surgical.

I'd probably have the pup on a long line and verbally and physically correct (via gentle redirection with the long line) any encroachment.

Some are now. But I dont' think the concept should be extended to surgery. Imagine the stress on the students and the impact on the families if a procedure didnt' go to plan. I'd like to see surgical work on pets limited to people who know what they're doing. It's not like a haircut.

Provided you closely supervised it AND made sure the pup didn't get over faced or tired, yep. The only qualifier I put on socialising at shows is that, unlike some breeders seem to think, its not "socialising" if the pup never leaves the pen. IMO you need to have the pup on its own part of the time and it needs not just to see, but to do things in that environment.

I think its actually easier than people realise and that membership of a decent dog club (or indeed this forum) could provide such access. Its all about tapping into the network of dog tragics that's out there. Most dog tragics I know go all gooey at baby puppies and the more knowledgeable ones will know if they have a dog suitable for the task.

Corvus: I can think of any number of breeds where that would be an issue. A dog cannot defend livestock or property, hunt or work in the company of other dogs unless it can focus on the task, not the company its in. Imagine if guide dogs had such a value on other dogs As has been discussed anywhere, its damn hard to train a dog in any multi-dog environment if the dog values the other dogs more highly than any motivator the handler can provide. I see this regularly. Much of what we've done with selective breeding has modified the dog's pack instincts. If we hadn't, we'd have a lot of trouble keeping dogs singly - and for some breeds I'd argue this is still the case.

I think people need to understand that "sharing" is not a canine concept when it comes to resources. Sure, a dog will "share" when there's plenty to go round but give one bone to a pack of dogs and unless its an unstable pack, one dog will always get it (unless a bitch got it first ) Feeding should be about encouraging calmness - do what it takes to decrease any possiblity of competition between your dogs.

I think the important qualifier is that not all dogs (indeed I'd argue most dogs) enjoy playing with strangers once they're mature. I know (and own) some extremely playful dogs that would never engage in play with a dog they didnt' know.. then there's Howard But we're not socialising our dogs just to teach them to "play". We doing it to teach them the appropriate social cues to deal with all kinds of dogs - and to know when their attention isn't wanted. I would argue that it's far more important that a pup spend time with reliable adult dogs both as a baby and an adolescent than that it play with other pups. Other pups are great for teaching bite inhibition and we need to do that because we take them from their mother and their littermates that would provide those lessons. Dogs are territorial, pack animals. We've modified some of their instincts in some of the breeds but the idea of greeting and playing with a strange dog (particularly one significantly different in size) would not be something that's instinctive for many. I think most dogs benefit from living with canine companionship but I dont' think you find that down the dog park with any dog on any day. You do see dogs adopt pack behaviour at dog parks if the same dogs attend regularly at the same time. But its not that common. Friend of mine had a large pup with her at a show a while back and screeched in horror when my toy poodle bitch verbally told it off for jumping on her. That's an appropriate response and a lesson learned. You don't want your pups socialising only with tolerant dogs - fastest way to raise a 'brat' I can think of. Some of the roughest dogs I know have learned their play style in the offlead dog parks and woe betide any owner who objects to their dog being jumped on, body slammed or mouthed. An objection from any dog to this behaviour sees a look of horror from the rude dog's owner and a label of "aggressive" applied to yours. The worst dog I know is never corrected by the owner - if you have an issue with what its doing, as far as the owner is concerned you can deal with it.

1. Tell her to phone a solicitor - she can work the system and at least get a stay on the procedure. My guess is with a lawyer involved, they'll back off quickly enough. 2. Time to be padlocking gates and nvestigating building secure runs.

The world need more good vets. I love my vet - she's knowledgeable, extremely competent, understands the show/dog sports world, calm when you need it and copes will with clients who burst into tears after holding it together almost until a bad news consult is over I honestly don't know what I'll do whens she retires.

Alternative surgical students? Is that just a fancy way of saying they didn't participate in surgeries on live animals that are then euthanised such as is debated in this topic? How did they get five times more experience, did they have access to resources their peers did not? Genuinely curious, I'm not a Vet student or anything like that so it isn't something I know a lot about so I'm not sure of what this actually means Perhaps they went out into veterinary practices and got their experience on pets?

I don't allow swapping and each eats their bone without interfering with or interference from the others. I supervise from a distance.

Amazing isn't it. I know people who'd cross States to see a concert, a musical or a sporting event but don't think the same effort to obtain an animal that will share their lives for years is worth it. The same people will spend a week overseas on holiday at considerable expense without batting an eyelid but think paying four figures for a dog is a waste of money. I simply don't get it.

I feel your pain. Spare a thought for Pitbull owners.. at least poodles don't usually conjure images of killer dogs.

We still do. They send us to special classes in school about how to stay positive & not kill ourselves. True story. wow! i didn't know that. is it because what vets see on a day to day basis? They don't really know. I personally think it's partly because it's a stressful degree and sometimes a stressful career (you see some terrible things, you keep some terrible hours if you're rostered on call, & the money isn't always all that great either). But I mostly think it's because we know how to put things down. A vet that wants to kill themselves gets the job done quickly and successfully. Sorry for the macabre OT. Don't be. I think a genuine animal lover without the ability to develop some clinical distance wouldn't last long in the profession. Seeing animals suffer due to owner ignorance and neglect. Having to PTS animals you might have saved if you'd seen them earlier and some of the owners you have to deal with would drive me to drink at least.

Including me. But lets not lose sight of one very important fact here. These dogs are not mistreated - we've had vet students here to tell us how it happens and these processes are subject to rigorous scruitiny. These dogs do not know they are going to die. They are not "experimented on" when they are conscious. They do not experience pain as a result of what happens to them. To be quite frank, I see more animal cruelty out in the pet owning community than I'd ever expect to see in a modern university vet school. The fact that its not dramatic, not subject to emotive press reports and doesn't get Dr Wirth wound up doesnt' change it. Dogs that never leave their yards, are obese, that suffer from untreated ailments - isn't that a more pressing but less dramatic welfare issue to confront? I honestly think that perceptions as to what is "cruel" need some serious rethinking. Frankly I find it far sadder that these dogs are available for such programs than what happens to them in the end. And all that protesting the practice has accomplished in Qld is that the dogs now die in the pound, rather than at the university. I don't see that as a win for the dogs.

That does not mean they don't care about the dogs. If the dog feels no pain, is unaware of the operation, and is not revived post-op, what difference does it make to them whether they are pts before or after? I just have a belief that many animals, not just dogs, communicate non verbally and feel in ways we don't appreciate or can measure. Even when they're unconscious?

I cant think of a single poster who's said that. Sorry, I haven't got time tonight to go back and find the references in the topic, but I understand a few posters feel it is perfectly ok to perform procedures on an animal prior to it's death as it is scheduled to die anyway. Yes, I'm one of them. That doesn't mean I don't care that they die or care how they are treated. It also doesn't mean that I think they should be made freely available in any numbers for vet students to learn on. But how its callous to see as preferable that an animal's death might educate future vets rather than be just to be rid of it at all beats me. Do people honestly think its better just to euth them and dispose of the bodies? There's a hell of a difference between thinking something's "perfectly OK" and thinking that a death with some purpose is better than one with no purpose at all.

I cant think of a single poster who's said that.