poodlefan

ViVien: Becoming defensive won't solve your training issues. The key to your problem is in the words you used in the title to this topic... training two puppies AT ONCE (ie. at the same time). The the message people are trying to convey here is that one handler trying to train two dogs simultaneously doesn't work. Anyone can train two dogs if they do it separately. In order to train ANY dog, you have to get it to focus on wholly on YOU. In your case, that means removing you and it from the sight and sound of the other pup. Give one pup a bone or something and leave the house if necessary with the other one. Or get your OH to take one for a walk (very rewarding for it) while you stay home and train the other. You can change around after just 10 minutes if you like. You want the one you are training completely isolated from the other and focussed on you. Similarly if you aren't relaxed and focussed on the one dog, your training sessions won't get far. These pups are on their own together all day - that means their primary bond will always be to each other unless you change that. If you want to change it then you have to teach each of them to focus on you and not to worry about what the other pup is doing. Most knowledgeable dog people would never recommend two pups be purchased together. Before you get defensive about that you need to understand why. The main reason is that its twice as much work to train two pups - there are no short cuts to that. Unfortunately, some people [wont' make the extra time commitment required to train both pups properly (ie separately). There's no training in the home if you can't block off the sound of the other dog. The general recommendation has always been to get one pup, train it to adulthood and then get another. That said now you have two pups, you will have to do double the amount the training with them. That's two puppy classes, each with one dog, not one puppy class with two dogs. Personally, if you want to really succeed with two dogs, you need to keep going into more advanced obedience to rreinforce and build on their bond with you rather than each other. There is no way my dog club will accept two dogs from the one family training in the one obedience class. We put them at opposite ends of the grounds or even suggest different training times. We had a father and son INSIST on bringing both their dogs to the one agility class recently. They were strongly advised against it by a number of instructors but insisted that they could do it. There was plenty of attitude and indignation about it too. Three weeks later, only one dog is coming to each class... they just couldn't get the dogs to focus on anything but each other... we did try to tell them nicely. Train them as individuals. Be prepared for them to respond differently and for the need to use different motivators and methods for each dog. That can be a challenge for some handlers. Train them to accept being on their own for some period of time, both at home and away from it. Otherwise you'll end up with two dogs who cannot be separated without stressing them and you out. Same goes for anyone introducing another dog to the house - they need to learn to accept time alone. A friend of mine who failed to teach her youngest dog to accept time on its own now has a dog that can't go anywhere or be left anywhere alone without freaking out. [Edited to make more sense!]

In my experience its harder to train a smarter dog that isn't as interested in "complying". Try endlessly drilling a breed like a poodle in the way that some people train their BCs or Labs - they simply switch off or find creative ways to perform the exercise. Of course the compliance factor does differ between breeds but I also think that the relationship with the owner has a lot to do with this. If my dogs were kept as individuals in runs and the only time they got out was for exercise or training one on one with me, I expect that their "compliance" levels would be higher. Become the only source of stimulation and reward for your dog and of course it will work harder while its with you. An independent breed like a terrier or a hound isn't necessarily stupid but the WIIFM factor (What's in it for me) has to be a lot higher all the time to get the results. IMO Intelligence dictates the speed of learning. "Compliance" dictates the degree to which your dog is interested in pleasing you, rather than itself. Some of that is genetic and some is about the relationship with the handler.

You also have to be a current member.

Warley: Too late Warley - we know where to find you! ;) I think a poodle's clip has to reflect its personality. My Big Ted is a cool sporty boy so he has "sporting clip". He has shaved FFT, ears and full tail. Its a great clip for a more active dog!

Natashja: Nope, same for all breeds. Although Lil my Toy Poodle reckons she should get the same size portions as FHR's Vizslas! ;) If you are interested, I'd strongly recommend you buy a couple of books. The Avonti Standard Poodle people in Adelaide have some good stuff on their website from memory. Grow Your Pups With Bones by Dr Ian Billinghurst is the bible for raising a pup on BARF. One of my guys doesn't tolerate lamb well, the other doesn't do well on beef - so sometimes a bit of tweaking is required. Chicken is the basis of what I feed. Necks are great for pups even with a kibble diet.

Natashja, do a search in this forum and you'll find plenty of information on BARF including book recommendations. P posted my BARF mix recipie at one stage. Some European pet clips (particulary the Dutch clip) include a moustache - its very traditonal for poodles.

I feed a fully home prepared BARF diet (OK I cheat sometimes when we travel and feed a bit of 4 Legs) and basically keep it grain free. I've got three poodles and none of them have ever had a ear infection. I pluck the ears but don't use any cleaners unless an ear is particuarly waxy (and that's rarely). I think my bottle of Leo is about ready for carbon dating. My friend with a poodle that had big ear issues, removed grains from her dog's diet and voila! - no more infections. ;) Natashja: You can always compromise and groom with for a "moustache".

I do as much as possible with fingers but do use tweezers to get the stuff that's deeper in the ear. I was using curved haemostats but I grabbed actual ear a couple of times so don't use them anymore. Tweezers seem to be more accurate for grabbing hair. I don't use Leo or anything else unless I can actually see build up. My vet said best to leave the ear as natural as possible unless there's a problem.

I'll take advice from the poodle breeders but my very hairy eared boy also has a very lovely thick coat... perhaps they go together.

Chomsky is old enough. Do a little every day and he will soon be accustomed to the process. How much wheat is in his diet. From anecdotal evidence, dogs fed wheat based kibble seem to have more chance of developing yeasty ear infections. Has he seen a vet. There are better ear drops than Leo for ear infections. Leo is really only about cleaning wax out of ears.

Lily's Mum: Of course trapping and poisoning are FAR more humane methods of dealing with these issues aren't they. They poison ducks every year Lily's mum - and anything else that eats the grain. Drought also has its effects on where birds are. If it weren't for hunters, many countries would no longer have wet lands or game animals - responsible hunters understand about conserving what they hunt. Lack of numbers is a proper reason to suspend a season but it doesn't mean that hunting is responsible for the drop in the first place. Responsible hunters also make damn sure they kill what they hunt - and have even bred some breeds of dog to trail wounded game. I seem to recall Animal Liberation being sprung adding "imported" native species to the birds they said they'd found killed in one duck season. I don't hunt but I respect the rights of others to do so provided they are responsible.

Rescue remedy does help. Have some about 20 minutes before you teach. Gain your confidence from knowing that you've prepared thorougly and rehearse in your mind what you want to say and achieve.

Our club does.

Obedience trialling is the equivalent of competitive dressage. It tests the dog's responsiveness to the handler, and the handler's ability to work the dog precisely. The formality of the arrangement as much allows each dog/handler combination to be tested to the same pattern as to compete directly against each other. Sure, some people want to win but a lot of people set a personal challenge of just meeting the standard to qualify. There are people who want to go beyond getting their dog to walk on a loose lead, come when its called and not jump on the kids. Two months of decent training can set those basics- the challenge is then to consolidate and build on them which is a step most dog owners don't take. Higher level exercises are often introduced to keep people (and dogs) interested in training. I'm at the same dog club as FHR and we are very much 'control' focussed in the early classes - too much for my taste as you end up having to undo bad habits for people who do aspire to do dog sports. All dog sports are about going beyond normal 'control' training to build a stronger relationship between the dog and owner as a team - to see what is possible between a dog and handler. Our dog club is completely volunteer run. Most of the people who do the managing, work and teaching do dog sports. They are catered for as much as to provide the motivation for instructors to keep coming as anything else. Let me tell you, constant teaching of "pet" basics is not highly motivating to a lot of instructors - they want the chance to take dogs and handlers beyound that. So what's provided tries to cater for everyone. I'm personally into going beyond 'pet' basics to get that special relationship. Besides, once you conquer you nerves and let go of your ego, you can have a hell of a lot of fun. There's nothing like a sports dog to keep you humble and to give you a sense of wonder. Personally, if you've never tried obedience, don't knock it. Its pretty challenging. What I notice is that people at my club who aren't interested in trialling, generally aren't interested in achieving the same level of precision and responsiveness in handling their dog. That's fine by me but personally I think you are better training for precise response from the outset rather than settling for basic compliance. Its often dog sports people who've pushed the boundaries to learn more more about why their dogs do what they do, and behave and respond as they do. Its horses for courses but I'd say don't knock any dog sport unless you've tried it. BTW - obedience work had its foundations in training gundogs to be handled safely in the field - heeling on the left hand side occurs because the handler carried his/her gun on the right.

Shelties Rule Ask the instructor after class. The sooner its nipped in the bud, the easier it will be to stop it. If she knows how to sit, then when she starts to jump, tell her to sit and reward her with pats etc then. She'll soon learn that she gets attention after she's sat, not when she jumps. Forget, any advice to "raise your knee" or similar - very easy to injure a pup doing that and you need a method your whole family can use.

The best short answer I can give you is to take your pup to a decent dog training school - you'll learn to deal with this and a lot of other undesirable behaviours. There are several ways to deal with them. Extinguishing - you can 'correct' your dog for jumping via either verbal or physical means eg. arrgggh when she does it. Replacement - when she does it, you can ask her to 'sit' (assuming she knows what this is) and reward the preferred behaviour. Telling your kids to sit down at her level is basically inviting her to jump on and lick them. They'd be better turning away from her so she can't get near their faces. Take her to dog school - the internet is no substitute for hands on training with someone who knows what they are doing. And in case you are wondering, no, she won't grow out of it. You need to train her out of it.

I use a bunch of different things - sausages, roast chook and cabanosi mostly. I also use a tug toy or a ball for some things - mostly in agility when I want speed and enthusiasm. However, only two of my three dogs enjoy the tug. Miss Lil is purely motivated by food. The aim of your treats should be that the dog can eat them very quickly - I tend to use only soft treats that are about the size of my little finger nail. If your dog is having to stop and chew them, they aren't ideal.

Hi Gail, I've trained Miss Lily through serious avoidance issues.... try a dog that ran away and hid behind my back pack or point blank refused to move. Lil took 6 months of training before she would go through a tunnel without coaxing from within it. I think Peebs probably has no idea what's expected of him in the weavers but knows that you are a bit stressed out.. Shutting down is his way of dealing with the pressure - it was Lils too. We'll talk about the instructor comments in person. BTW, its FHR's class, I'm merely the trusty sidekick!

Personally I find the channel method relatively ineffective with a small dog because they can simply run through them until they are very close together. Ditto the angled ones. I favour guides for the littlies and if you haven't tried them its worth a go. FHR and I are your instructors next session so we can work on this in class. You can also just start with four weavers and work from there. Never, never, NEVER give up.... some dogs just take longer than others to catch on, particularly if there are any confidence issues (dog or handler).

Ruffles what are you chances of finding another, more supportive vet in your area. Your vet is supposed to be major part of your dog's health team - its far easier to have a vet who, if not actually in favour of BARF, isn't against it. I see absolutely no point in having to lie to your vet about how you care for your dog. In the event of illness, you vet needs to know the truth about what your dog eats.

Gail is this lady on the Net? Its probably the cheapest place to source them.

FHR: Quite right. He should have been hogging the bed at my place!!

I just inflict my dogs on friends I think one of our local kennels is happy to feed BARF - perhaps if you talk about "special needs" diets a kennel might be happy to feed what you provide. Just don't expect a discount for BYO.

Vehs: You do a tidy up on the head, and ears. At least that's all she asked me to do before she got clippers. No doubt Helen could give you more detail.

I was referring to single speed Andis Clippers but I haven't actually eyeballed my friends new ones. Perhaps they are the pet clippers. She only wants them for trimming her Brittany - they'll probably be fine for that. I'd certainly want something with a better motor for full body clips.