poodlefan

dogdude: The sad fact dogdude is that giving your dog a couple of pops on the check chain or even merely rattling the links on the way to the start peg isn't "stretching the rules".. its perfectly legal. In training terms its the equivalent of me tossing the rubber ball into the air on the way to the peg and shoving it in my pocket. It's unfair... and disadvantages those who train using more positive methods. Don't even get me started on the disadvantages of trialling a small dog in comparison to "traditional obedience breeds" .. :D

Dogdude: They ain't off lead at any level when they enter the ring and go to the start peg. That's when the lead comes off. Don't think for a moment that some ringwise handlers don't use the opportunity for some last minute "tuning up" before they are being judged.\ The facts are that the rules that "no training aids in the ring". A check chain is a training aid. If it applies to my rubber ball, it should apply to a fellow competitor's check chain.

dogdude one thing in favour of the exercises like jumping and retrieving is that for most dogs, they are enjoyable. One of the bugbears of the old Novice (in addition to two heeling patterns. :D was that there were no self rewarding exercises for the dogs. I say keep jumping and retrieving.. but yes, I'd be thrilled if they'd let the dogs retrieve a ball.

Oooh - one of my pet topics!! :D Firstly, the rules state quite clearly that no training aids are allowed in the ring. I can't take treats or a ball in but another trainer can have their dog wearing a check chain for on lead heeling. I say all dogs have to compete wearing flat collars only. The general vibe seems to be that the higher the level of obedience test, the less distractions the dogs should get. UD gets the fenced ring or the quiet ring. I say reverse that.. better trained dogs should be tested against higher levels of distraction. I know UD dogs who do perfect recalls under trialling conditions but fail to immediately return to their handler otherwise - what a joke. I think the new CCD class has it about right for practical things. I don't necessarily agree that higher classes should offer "practical" exercises - it's a sport after all. However, I fail to see the point of out of sight stays in two positions... one is enough. Oh, one thing I reckon would encourage handlers would be a written score sheet with judges comments. They do this in official dressage tests. All the judge needs is a steward to pencil for them. Sorry - back to the question. For a "practical" obedience test, I'd be looking at basing it on exercises similar to the Delta Canine Good Citizen test. Dog heels through people, demonstrates control and appropriate response to common every day things like being greeted etc.

Hi Rusky! The reason I asked the question about training a dog not to bark is because the usual answer I get from PP trainers on this one is to "put the behaviour on cue". However, that does not extinguish it. My dogs all sit on cue but that hardly means they don't sit at other times when the behaviour is unsolicited. It's my belief that unwanted, self rewarding behaviours can be very difficult to deal with by PP methods. What tends to happen with some people who go to PP trainers with problem dogs is that they get given what you suggested - a whole bunch of management techniques that don't actually address the behaviour itself. To me that is failing the person who sought help and the dog. Provision of advice like "saying no three times to your dog is abuse' is a bunch of rot that doesn't help people raise a dog they want to live with - and yes, that's a real example I was given. I think PP training is an ideal that is damn difficult to achieve in reality for most people. It's your average well intentioned but not wildly savvy dog owner that I get to deal with - you tend to have their attendance for about 8 weeks. That's 8 weeks to set them and their dogs up for life in terms of imparting training knowledge. A bunch of idealistic stuff ain't going to help most folk. So you teach them the basics of operant conditioning, give them a few strategies to deal with common unwanted behaviours and hope they get it before they go. Funny how halti's are much loved by PP trainers and yet are a constant aversive - whether the dog is doing the right thing or not. Oh,and on the barking thing - I've had some improvement with ultrasonic devices but if it was a real issue, I'd be looking at some kind of aversive collar. I'm no fan of debarking but it sure beats euthanasia and boy do some dogs LOVE to bark.

Poodles is usually Castle Hill... and they tend to have an obedience trial too.

Rusky: Saying BAH!!! at inappropriate behaviour is a correction. Yelling "off" when a dog jumps on you is a correction. Guiding a dog's head round and towards you when it pulls on the halti is a correction. Using a long line to guide a dog to you when it doesn't respond to a "come" cue is a correction. Rusky you never answered my question on how you would teach a dog not to bark using purely positive methods. I'd still like to hear your answer I don't see the use of positive or corrective methods as being exclusive.. its possible to use both. I train using positive methods as much as possible but I will use an correction if I believe it's necessary. It doesn't mean the correction will be a harsh one however. Rusky to some dogs NOTHING is more desireable than prey. Even very positive trainers are on record as saying trainng tools like shock (and I mean shock not E-collars) have a place in dealing with dogs who are habitual stock chasers. They argue (and I agree) that for such undesireable and potentially life threatening behaviour, the use of strong, physical aversives is justified. Otherwise, its almost impossible to to extinguish such highly self rewarding behaviour. Sure people will argue that you don't use corrections to train dolphins effectively but that is an overly simplistic statement. Firstly, dolphin trainers are usually highly experienced professionals with a lot of animal training experience. Secondly, they have the luxury of time that many families don't have to train their dogs. And thirdly, they don't usually have to deal with eliminating unwanted behaviours.

One Poodle (Miniature) and one Poodle (Toy) here.. if it goes ahead, I can put the word out via the Poodle mafia...

Cool! We have a bunch of Dallies trialling down here and a few poodles too. I know there are some Jap Spitz doing it too. What's the venue for the show?

Is this for an obedience trial attached to a Non-Sporting Group Show? If so, don't limit your question to just Sydney siders... people will travel for such an event. I'd have two to enter!

Trace: Yep, it's all part of toilet training babies with tiny bladders. ;) If you don't get up and he soils his pen then all your hard work will be undone. He's like any other baby - he will sleep through longer and longer as he grows older. If he wakes up, take him out, praise him for doing the right thing and put him back to bed. You'll simply have to endure the restlessness and noise or pay the price of growing an expectation that he gets to come to bed with you. You're learning one of the reason why some people prefer older dogs to puppies. :p

I think aversives have their place in training. However the fact that something is "aversive" to the dog doesn't mean it has to be physical punishment. If my dog does zoomies at agility and doesn't come to me then it gets a "time out" tied to the fence and ignored. That's aversive I have one question for the purely positive trainers - how do you train a dog not to bark? One other thing to remember with recalls is that for your dog to respond to your cue, it has to hear you. There are studies that show that dogs in full prey drive after quarry cannot hear outside "distractions". Timing of a recall is important no matter how well your dog is trained IMHO.

I chose the breed first. I took Ted to dog training because I didn't know anything about training dogs and wanted a well behaved one. The interest in dog sports kind of grew from there. I'm not really a "dog for the job" kind of person. I think I'd always pick the breed I wanted to have and then find activities to do with it. Like Helen I'm not really a working dog person (too much intensity for me) and these days it's pretty much a high drive working dog that you need to win in agility. Maybe a gundog next. . or a toy. .. or a... So many breeds... so little time.

Darcy my youngest dog had three days on a drip with haemorrhagic gastro a couple of years ago. I started him on boiled chicken and rice, then a home made "chicken stew with rice and veggies" (smelled really nice) then back on to raw food. He also had "piglet mix" anti-scour electrolites for about 3 days.

Husky 87: In my opinion, yes. I don't exercise my dogs on lead at all until they are 6 months old and not in public places until they are fully vaccinated. Free play is far better than pounding along on concrete on growing puppy bones. I don't know how high the risk of parvo in your area is but your local vet would. Yes, other dogs (and people) who come into contact with live parvovirus can transmit it by contact. A footpath is certainly far less risk than areas like public off leash parks. If you exercise your older dogs in such areas, then they do run a risk (as do you) of bringing the virus home on themselves.

Mrs D: Let's hope more southern clubs follow the example Mrs D.. Unfortunately round here I listen to more reasons why night trials won't work than why they might.

Ted finally got his CD - aged 9!!! I won't take him beyond that - out of sight stays are just too stressful for him. Lil got her CCD - she'll go on to CD next year. Perhaps a JDX also. Darcy got his AD, JD, JDX, SPD and ET. Next year I hope to get some more agility titles and perhaps his CCD and CD..

I do not attend trials without taking my own shade with me. Best investment you can make for your dog's comfort is a decent gazebo.Strangely although agility trials (like dog shows) are usually a forest of gazebos, obedience people seem to have reluctant to take that step. I also have a cool mat and take cold water and a spray bottle for warmer days. I would not trial in that heat, regardless of whether or not I'd paid my money. I don't trial in Sydney beyond October or before March. Time for clubs to start considering night obedience trials between October and March I reckon. Night agility trials have been around for ages. Personally, I think the right decision was made - it's an animal welfare issue and unfortunately there are dog sports people who will put competition above their dog's wellbeing. Did competitors get a refund?

It does sound a bit like the instructor has adopted the "one size fits all" approach to dog training. Not all dogs are motivated by play... or food, or toys, or praise. Here's the question - what does Bree find truly motivating? It is not natural for dogs to accept new members into a pack.. constant changes to pack membership and hierachies are extremely stressful for some dogs. I agree with Nekbet - think good and hard about what fosters you take on and every now and again give your dogs a break from new dogs.

Much as I dislike halti's, I would always advise people to train in one with the dog in a flat collar and a double ended or two leads attached - one to the halti and one to the flat collar. That way you can train a person to only use the halti to correct pulling and the dog is far less likely to learn to pull on the halti. In addition, to never being used with a retractable lead, dogs should never be tied up by a lead attached to a halti IMHO. Keeping a flat (or martingale) collar on the dog at all times also encourages people to view the halti as a temporary control measure.

I suggest a more proactive approach than walking away is required before this pup gets much older. You could get the kids to tell puppy "off" and then "sit" and reward. Of course you have to teach the puppy both cues. Or you can buy them all a water pistol to squirt him with. As you know, if you don't deal with it now, he's only going to get bigger.... and bigger.

Not all humping is sexual. Sometimes it's about dominance (watch dogs do that to each other). At this age, I'd be erring on the side of dominance. Time to teach the kids how to deal with it.

Sonic: Seriously? I'd be on the phone to K9Force and off for a little road trip. In your shoes, I'd be looking for a damn good dog trainer to help me. A very common problem I notice at our club is the TIMING of the recall. Its a hell of a lot easier to get the dog's attention on you when it's by your side looking at other dogs as opposed to 20 feet away and hurtling towards them. Is that part of the problem - the dog is gone before you notice what's happening. You should be able to teach your dogs (with the owner's permission) that play time comes AFTER focus and control, not at will. Keeping your dog onlead, insisting on some basic obedience like heel, sit etc and then release to play after that control would help. I would move from doing this onlead to off. Your dog can learn to look to you for permission to play. If the dog isn't obeying the "come" I'd say it either doesn't understand that "come" means come right now at the rush OR, it believes it has a choice about whether or not to obey. Until I had that sorted, I'd be keeping it onlead.

Sonic: In a nutshell, by training it firstly in an environment free of distractions (eg. at home) and by rewarding the dog with something positive every time it comes. The long line is used to "encourage" the dog to you if it wont' come (although running backwards carrying on like a pork chop can also be very effective). Then, when the dog is coming reliably, you firstly increase the distance of the recall OR start to add distractions. Then, you move to intermittant rewards. Seriously, the fastest most reliable way to teach a recall is to find yourself a good dog trainer and have them show you. No amount of describing how it can be done will beat being shown it.

Ruthless: A long line is really handy for this... make the reward for coming a really big one and remember ... you can only effectively train one dog at a time. Start somewhere more neutral than an offlead park and work up to higher levels of distraction. A good trainer could really speed you along with this.