poodlefan

That's one hell of an achievement then Dogdude. I bet he's retired. ;)

Mrs D: I sure didn't push Ted when he was young. He gained his CD last year aged 9!!! Edited cos Ted was 9 not 8.

Dogdude, I know who EddyAnne is and that he does/did obedience (I think he's a judge??) He and I crossed swords many a time on the DD issue. 18 months for an OC seems almost unbelieveable to me - I'm not saying that I doubt you, but wonder if the term "obedience champion" refers to the actual title or is a generic reference to obtaining an obedience title of some kind. OC hasn't been around all that long.

Dogdude: How long ago are we talking about??? I have to say that I find that difficult to believe but if you say they had it.. I'll take your word for it. Are you sure that "obedience champion" really meant OC or merely that they had an obedience title? It probably isn't. Look, what I see happening around me (and clearly so does Vickie) is experienced competitors getting pups and bringing all these expectations and placing all this pressure on the pups to be like their experienced dogs. What people sometimes forget is all the time and effort they took with their older dogs and they start taking shortcuts and placing more pressure on pups earlier and earlier. They forget that while THEY may know more about what's going on, their pups still need to start from zero and build up. We had a young Aussie Shepherd do brilliant work in CD at our last state titles. Beautiful heel work, fast straight sits, drops etc. The handler said that she was taking the dog out of the ring for 12 months to work on CDX and to give him time to mature. This was a professional dog trainer who had the patience and a long term training strategy in place. She knew her dog's limits. A lot of competitors don't.

Dogdude: Perhaps you mean CD? I've never heard of any dog gaining a UD at one. I've seen plenty of dogs that had a CD at one that the wheels came off shortly after. If you don't have really really solid basics and you haven't got a rock solid relationship with the dog, more pressure and a higher degree of difficulty can bring the whole pack of [training] cards down.

I agree with you Vickie. One of the worst and most damaging trends in dog sports is owners putting more and more pressure on increasingly younger dogs. Some dogs are now washed up physically by 5... incidentally the age where dogs started slower are only just starting to peak. I can think of a few competitors dogs that are simply getting slower and slower - clearly they are either sore or sour.. it's not fun for them any more. You have to let a pup BE a pup and play. Yep you can teach focus and control but I shudder when people tell me how they have their babies doing flat contacts etc. I recall a notable English obedience trainer saying that no dog should be in formal competiton before the age of 18 months as they just don't have the emotional maturity to handle it. What's the rush?

Beaglenewb: I'm sure it would if you sprayed it in a dog's face. It's also toxic and highly aversive. I'd not recommend it for this purpose. Either push him off gently telling him "off" and reward him when he's on the ground or tell him to "sit" instead and reward that? When do you start puppy school?

Prewash the stains with Sunlight soap... get a good lather and then rinse it out. Wash the dog in a good doggy whitening shampoo... I use Plush Puppy Herbal Whitening. Then grab your sunglasses - you'll need them.

I'd be focussing on preventing the contamination of his coat rather than trying to remove it. Oil and grease can be absorbed through the skin and won't do him any good in the long run. A crate in the workshop might solve the problem.

Don't confuse intelligence and trainability. A lot of factors need to be considered when you look at how "easy" to train a dog is. One of them is the handler. Different handlers do better with dogs of different temperaments and learning styles. Personally I'm always interested in listening to and learning from handlers who've taken "non-traditional" obedience breeds to the top. To take an obedience bred Golden Retriever to UD is not mean feat. However would you have liked to learn from someone who did the same with not one but two Parson Jack Russell Terriers? Those "hard to train" dogs teach a handler more humility and more training skills than any other. I have to shake my head sometimes when I see dogs doing OK in obedience despite their handlers. A more challenging dog makes you think about things like footwork and body language because you HAVE to get it right for the dog to succeed. That said, an easy to train dog is a joy to have.

I'm a pretty tough old biatch. but :D :p That poor family. So powerless to help their lovely girl. A warm poodle is a great sponge for tears.

Erin: No, but he (and you) does need to be registered with the appropriate governing body. Obedience - sooner the better! I would not train a small breed dog over jumps, weavers or raised contacts in agility and flyball under about 14 months of age and older for a larger breed. Which ever interests you the most or that you want to focus on. What dogs learn first they learn best. Personally I think agility dogs take to flyball easier than flyball dogs to agility but no doubt others would beg to differ Big ask on a dog physically and mentally. Probably even a bigger ask on a handler. I'd say do one then the other, not both at once. I'd have to say that few handlers who get "into" agility or flyball would do both sports. I agree about obedience. Focus and control form the basis of all dog sports. Start with obedience now and then make your decision about which other dog sports to do when your dog is old enough. You can keep doing obedience along side another sport easily.

Jaanka: Then personally, I'd be leaving it as late as possible. Dr Christine Zink (eminent American dog sports vet) recommends no dog sports dog be desexed prior to around 14 months. I, and many of my agility mates, agree with her. You want him to be fully physically mature - full bone and muscle development before you do it. Desexed dogs do not get the same level of development and males in particular tend to be taller and leggier if done early. Not what you want for an agility dog.

If she doesn't have a reliable recall with distractions, don't take her. If you are prepared for the fact that some dog park users have absolutely no control over their dogs and yours could be subject to rough play, aggression or other unwanted behaviour then maybe when she's about 7 months old. I never take my dogs to public offlead parks. I prefer them to socialise with dogs they know and with owners that know enough to be able to read what's going on and control their dogs accordingly. Do a search here on "off leash parks" - they are not always the doggie wonderlands we'd like them to be.

What breed is your pup? Do you have any interest in dog sports? If you do, you'll be delaying desexing until he is fully physically mature. Desexing probably won't stop the behaviour.

Nutty: Or take him to the level where you know he is happy - ie the fenceline. He can look, he can even interact but he can't be jumped on. You can walk around and you can remove him from the fenceline if he shows aggression. You will be in control and not reliant on other dogs owners to do the right thing.

Perhaps he'd simply be happier not going to public dog parks and playing only with dogs he knows. My dogs are. Dogs are not naturally sociable. They are territorial pack animals. Wild dog packs kill or drive off "strangers". I know plenty of dogs that simply will not tolerate strange dogs crowding them. Any trainer who'd give you specific advice about this problem on the internet without having seen and evaluated this dog is not a trainer whose advice I'd take. Either get your Mum to cough up or don't take him to the dog park (in fact I'd recommend that anyway). The first thing any trainer is going to tell you is don't put your dog in situations which create the unwanted behaviour. The more you create it, the more ingrained a response it is.

Nope. I think its a learned response to unwanted attention from other dogs. He's now opting for a "preemptive strike" to keep other dogs at their distance. This is most definitely a behaviour that can be improved with work from an experienced professional canine behaviouralist. However, by continuing to place him in situations where he feels the need to defend himself from strange dogs, you are ramping up the behaviour. You simply cannot control the behaviour of other dogs in public offlead parks. I would not be taking this dog there.

I think he's telling them (and trying to tell you) in no uncertain terms that he doesn't enjoy being crowded by a bunch of strange dogs (most of whom no doubt are bigger than him) and he's trying to defend himself. It's getting worse because he's trying to be more and more assertive to get them away from him and you are continuing to let the crowding occur. Why take him to the park if he finds is so stressful? Other owners are doing the wrong thing by allowing their dogs to crowd him and I expect it will not improve while he is subjected to such behaviour. You'd be better off finding a quiet place with good under control dogs and letting him try to interact one on one with a quiet small dog. You could seek professional help but frankly I don't see how this dog is reacting as "abnormal". It's your job to protect him from unwanted attention from other dogs and frankly you aren't doing it. I'd say the problem is not him defending himself but that you keep putting him in the situation where he feels the need to and then don't help him. This is a dog that's been attacked right? And you continue to subject him to being crowded by strange dogs? Have a think about it. Geeze I hate public offlead parks. So many undesireable behaviours develop in them.

I dont' care what anyone says. Tear staining is NOT normal for any dog. It can be caused by: * Lose eyelids allowing dirt to cause irritation... but your vet has given the all clear. * Diet. Too much preservatives and colourings in food can lead to this IMHO. * Anything that lowers the immune system. Teething might be one cause. If it continues I'd be looking into these things. What do you feed the pup.

ChrisB: Perhaps if you let her take full responsiblity for her behaviour rather than controlling and defending it, she'd learn to take some responsibility for herself and stop endlessly creating "difficulties". Then again, maybe not. ;) Lack of leadership, misunderstanding the true nature of a dog and heavy handed techniques have led you both to where you are now with Chewie. Please learn from that.

Lablover I don't hold with harsh physical corrections but I do find that voice corrections are very effective for some things. Indeed, I think voice is probably the best training aid we have for many things. Problem with getting "hands on" with a dog to correct placement, position etc is that it's a tough habit to break and completely useless if the dog isn't next to you.

I'm not going to have a go at Laron.. I don't agree with all of her training methods but show me two dog trainers and I'll show you a debate about that. I'll give you this Laron.. you've got guts coming on here to explain yourself and I'm glad you did. Seems to me that both DOL and you have been misrepresented to one another by the common demoninator in all of this. Andoria it seems to me that you owe your trainer an apology.. you really did exaggerate what happened. Then there are those 100's of abusive emails you told us Laron received... Lablover I don't know too many "purely positive" trainers but I do know a lot that use positive reinforcement AND some corrections. The two are not incompatible.

ausdogsx6 Ask yourself.. did it never occur to you that someone might have been exchanging PMs with Andoria about training issues? Seems to me that you are as quick to judge as you accuse others of being. We all care about the dog dude, that's why we're DOLers.

Lablover: Poor training... basically the horse becomes desensitised to more subtle aids and accustomed to being 'yanked around' by the reins. Only in extreme cases does the mouth actually have any damage but that can also be done. The perfect example of a desensitised horse is a riding school horse. It gets used to being kicked to go so doesn't respond to a squeeze of the legs. It is accustomed to people using pressure on the reins to "hang on" and ignores any more subtle rein aid. Riding a riding school horse after a well trained horse is like driving a shopping trolley having gotten out of a sports car. Horse training aids are like dog training aids. A spur can be a very subtle cue or an item of abuse. Same for bits, whips etc.