poodlefan

Hey, we're not "fighting", we're "debating".. lots of that goes on here. :rolleyes:

You love the stuff Spotty. I don't. OP asked for opinions. I gave mine. I don't think its the best diet for a dog, in my opinion, but I don't think it's the worst either. There are lots of views here on DOL on what's best for a dog. I think the main thing is that people think and do some research rather than just dumping what's convenient to feed in a bowl.

I dont use it. I see little point in paying good money for roughage I can provide more cheaply with veggies. Grains and soy are about the two most common food allergens for dogs. But it sure beats some other diets. :rolleyes:

Your understanding is correct IMO. This is certainly not the way I'd be dealing with the issue but I'll leave it to the experts from here.

Corvus: Maybe you should join a dog club. You'd get all that and more. You'd also have a better idea of the vaccination status of the dogs you alllow yours to meet and greet.

Corvus: Why would their fears inevitably affect the result of an interaction? Perhaps, they have dog aggressive dogs? Perhaps they are cautious. But either way, what's so terrible about preventing a potentially bad interaction. All guts is what gets your dogs injured. I like my dogs in one piece. I judge dogs and handlers as they approach. I look at the level of control the handler has over the dog. If I don't like what I see I cross the road. If you don't gather your dog to your side and have it focus on you as you approach me, I'll cross the road. I've seen all I need to know that you have no intention of controlling your dogs interaction with mine. So I put up with the "oh I think you're scaring the poodles" jibes from ignorant owners who allow their offlead, pilor erect, tail raised and stiffly wagging dogs to approach offlead because I know what I'm seeing. An ignorant owner who can't read a dog and that's got a dominant one not under control. I ignore the "he justs wants to say hello" crap because that's all it is.. crap. I'll happily wear the 'coward' label if it keeps my dogs safe. They don't need to meet new dogs, they have plenty of dog friends now.

Look, some folk swear that chiro is pure quackery. Some vets are opposed to it and some have qualifications in it themselves. I have it done on me and the dogs and swear by it but some folk argue that manipulation can cause damage. But IMO the longer you leave a skeletal issue unresolved, the greater the chance of irrepairable arthritic changes in joints. As my chiro says, he can't do much with a fused joint. ETA: My only caution would be to use someone who has formal qualifications in the field. Some folk swear by the lay people (often greyhound folk) but I'd not use one.

You can ask. The worst he'll say is "no". I think if your dog looks sore, that you've probably left it a bit long. The longer things are out of alignment, the more muscles and ligaments adjust to the new position, creating an ongoing need to recorrect alignment because things then get pulled back out of place. That's what I found, PF - the adjustments are now 'holding' for want of a better word but it's taken some time. The first treatment was a real eye opener - I thought Ziggy was moving fine.....until I could see how he looked AFTER the treatment! Yep.. The chiro reckons Darcy's shoulder injury was pretty traumatic.. he said similar to being hung up by one front leg somehow. I have no idea how he did that and there was no obvious change of gait. FHRP swears she didnt' swing him around by one leg that often. But gee he was SORE. It tooks three months of adjustments to sort it and of course because he was compensating for it in the rear, that was out too.

You can ask. The worst he'll say is "no". I think if your dog looks sore, that you've probably left it a bit long. The longer things are out of alignment, the more muscles and ligaments adjust to the new position, creating an ongoing need to recorrect alignment because things then get pulled back out of place.

I figure a bit of money spent up front can prevent issues down the line. Darce is 5 now. He's had a trauma to one leg (no idea how or when) this year but until now has been very very sound. Looks like that's fixed now too. It's unusual for him to need adjustment. Correct alignment can, according to my chiro, assist with keeping cruciate ligaments unstressed. I have no reason to doubt that view.

What Molasseslass says is important.. having everything aligned while they grow can prevent a lot of issues. I've seen a quite cow hocked puppy come good with regular chiro. Pups can really knock themselves around too.. even the birthing process can be hard on a pup. I don't see it just as a 'cure' but also as prevention of serious issues down the line.

Ted and Lil were probably about two. Darcy was 11 weeks. He was done as soon as I got him and all have been done regularly ever since.

Personally I'm more concerned with that fact that fights happen. It's been said before.. people can spend a lot of energy analysing the 'whys' of dog aggression but its the outcomes that affect dogs and people most seriously. However, let me tell you that it is quite unusual for a well socialised, well trained dog to have a fight history these days. Most owners go out of their way to avoid them.

Corvus, this isn't a hypothetical. You posted about your dogs, the dog fights they've been involved in and your concerns about escalating signals of aggression. I don't do PMs about topics that are publicly posted. I've quoted what you've told us and commented. If you choose to allow your dogs to display aggressive behaviour towards each other and other dogs, then you can hardly be surprised that, confronted with a situation that stresses them, they do what they know best. And that's what you've taught them. They won't look to you for protection when you've never protected them in the past. You said so yourself. Damn right it's controversial.. dogs die every day because they do what's natural.. they bite. BSL, dangerous dogs laws, dog attacks, all result from dogs displaying perfectly natural behaviour that owners have failed to control. Oh, the one time I couldn't stop a dog attacking mine, I kicked the crap out of it. Personally I think I may have saved my dogs life. The owner thought his dog was playing when it picked my dog up in his jaws and shook him hard enough to throw him some distance and sprain his hip. Of course, that was also quite natural predatory behaviour.

Corvus: Not to me. I don't consider any 'scrap' that results in injury to be acceptable whether its within my household or from a strange dog. Sounds to me like your dog has learned that fighting is an acceptable way to deal with unwanted aggression. Clever dog. Now ask yourself what you could have done differently so she never had to learn that. Sorry Corvus, you may have a degree in zoology but your acceptance of aggression towards and from your dogs makes me shake my head. Dogs injuring each other is not normal in the dog households I know and certainly not tolerated in mine.

Corvus: Pity it hasn't worked.

Corvus: Really? So you are saying that your dog never caused a fight yet managed to get involved more than one serious one? And you find that acceptable? What I don't get is why you are allowing dogs to get so close in the first place? Sorry Corvus, but you 'non-interventionist' approach is highly unsafe. What happens when a dog does take offence to the snapping. You should do a little more reading on what freezing means in terms of dog behaviour too.

I would add one thing to this discussion for you to consider Corvus. Penny is 13. Age lessens a dog's ability to see hear and sense other dogs. Increasing frailty also means that dogs are less capable of dealing with other dog issues. What may have worked for you when she was younger may not work for you now. If her warning signs that she is unhappy with the behaviour of other dogs are increasing, maybe its time for you to rethink the "let her sort them out herself" angle (which I don't agree with btw) Your dog is now OLD. Time to step up and protect her when she feels uncomfortable I reckon or you'll be seeing more and more signs of aggression.

If you want to do that Ruthless, my strong recommendation is that you do so under the supervision and guidance of a professional who deals with aggression issues on a daily basis. There are quite a few folk who believe that you don't 'cure' aggression.. merely increase a dogs tolerance and thresholds to react to triggers to it.

One more thing to bear in mind.. raise the dogs' arousal levels (eg. by allowing them to belt around) and you may well lower their thresholds to react. A small incident becomes mirrored to a highly aroused dog.

Because I honestly think there's a fair bit of potential for things to go wrong and the dog I'd want my fear aggressive dog to meet would be disinterested/non reactive, not to have issues of its own. Two dogs with isses = trouble to me.

No.

Darcy's not dog friendly. Big Ted and Princess Lil will also demand pats. :wink: If you bring Toby, do bring a crate. He'll be safe and secure in there and you can put it in the shade somewhere. I leave my dogs at home if I steward.. it's easier, that's for sure.

Closest lure coursing to Canberra is currently Erskine Park in Sydney.. the Afghan club of NSW runs it and details are on their website. I think its finished for the year. There is talk of getting a lure coursing set up for Canberra. Anita (member here) will know more about that.

Whitka: .I only hope between Darcy and I that we manage to produce some agility. :wink: Just keep your eye out for the pink and purple palace Whitka.. it's hard to miss. It will probably be part of a gazebo farm on the grounds somewhere.