poodlefan

dansdogs, I suggest you PM Enmark who started the thread posted above. She has just been through this with one of her dogs. I hope things go well for your boy. :p

In relation to the tire jumping thread, I'm not sure if you're reading "she'll be right" as the message when what was being said by some posters, including me was "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". Risk management isn't usually just about eliminating risk. It's about identifying, analysing and making judgements about how to alleviate unacceptable risk. Taking the example of dog agility, the only way to remove all risk from equipment is to have none (as I suggested). If that option is eliminated, then you can look at the equipment and find ways to make it safer. The fact is that the accident at the Nationals that precipitated one discussion on the tyre was caused by the failure to take what most agility people consider to be a standard precaution with it. Pegging is mandatory at my club. Break away tyres is another method of reducing risk. "No tyre" is not the option I'd like to see adopted and that is what some people want. "She'll be right" generally means something other than "do nothing" or "stick your head in the sand" to me. I think, as has been suggested, that it means "don't panic, we can get through this". If you want an expression for inaction or ignoring risk "fiddling while Rome burns" pretty much sums it up. That's not a saying that's Australian in origin.

Exactly. I have to say i was completely shocked and i couldn't quite understand where they were coming from to teach other people to do it. My dog is extremely dominant and barely listens to me hence why we have re-started obedience, i certainly didn't think that type of thing was an appropriate obedience command. I could see it ending badly with B because of his dominance and i know he doesn't see me as pack leader. He was completely excited from all the barking and other dogs etc aswell. Anyway i did it against my better judgement because i was the only one hesitating and the trainer kept egging me to do it. End result was my dog growling at me and trying to nip me. Now i'm at a loss with what to do. I probably shouldn't give up on the obedience club but yeah..... Don't walk away from this club Melbomb, run. And never ignore your gut, no matter who the instuctor is. If you don't like what's being taught, just don't do it.

Not unless the handler knows a very good plastic surgeon. It's not an appropriate correction in any training context IMO and if done to the wrong dog, the handler may be minus some facial features.

I socialize my dogs with my friends dogs and dogs whose owners I know at my dog club. We have dedicated grounds with offlead areas.

Gorgeous. Makes me all clucky.

Hey, the obstacles are the 'easy' part. Nearly all my course faults are caused by what I do on the flat linking them up You mean like stopping dead and thinking "oh shite, where was I going".. and having your dog get called for a refusal cos he stopped to wonder too? Or my personal favourite.. busting your gut to get to a particular place on the course and then stopping and going "oh shite, I didnt' think I'd make it here.. now what?"

. I don't think many people wnat to get rid of the tyre completely...but lots want to take advantage of a design that appears safer. As far as I see it, bureaucracy, logistics & cost are what stands in the way of this happening. Logistics & cost I think we can overcome with a bit of effort...Bureaucracy is another thing alltogether I don't think it would be all that difficult to make the thing fall apart on impact. Just let me build them. Of course mine might just fall apart anyway.

So true ! Main reason why I only run one particular organisation in Vic. and not another. I'd probably still get course faults.

KC: My guess is either inexperienced stewards or an oversight. Coming up with enough stewards for a Nationals is a real challenge so maybe someone didn't know to peg it. And no, my post about getting rid of the tyre wasn't directed at you but it was one reaction after the Nationals incident. If we got rid of all the "potentially unsafe" stuff, we'd be running around on the flat with no obstacles at all.

I know, but some may have misinterpreted your post to mean that the only reason to go fast is to win. Agreed. Does not make them safe and does not make them successful. For me, the only reason to go fast is to qually. :wink: Unfortunately Vickie some of the "bat out of hell" brigade place just often enough to encourage them.

Winning is what encourages speed. Same as show jumping - fastest clear dog within time wins. well it may be one thing but it's not the only thing. Some teams go fast to win some go fast to make SCT some go fast because they think it is more fun some go fast to aim to be the best they can some go fast b/c their dog doesn't "do slow" If you have a naturally motivated, athletic dog & you train positively & consistently, the chances are your dog is going to be fast & you will be as fast as you can to keep up with it. It doesn't have to be about winning. You don't have to tell me Vickie. However, the "bat out of hell" approach to course handling adopted by some people doesn't assist dogs to complete obstacles safely at times. I've seen some really big asks of dogs in terms of approaches to obstacles and that fuels incidents with equipment. Very very tight turns onto contacts and the tyre are a case in point.

Winning is what encourages speed. Same as show jumping - fastest clear dog within time wins. I think it would be safe to say that most show jumpers spend a lot more time teaching their horses how to jump than many agility handlers. Not all dogs have a good natural jump style and there's plenty of training material around on how to teach it but I'm not sure how many bother. But yes, the idea of checking your dog's speed and focus to get a good approach to an obstacle isn't all that common in agility IMO. I find times tight at the highest level but I'm given the same course time with my 300 dog as any other size dog does. I don't have a problem with that but it does mean that the type of course I confront will pretty much determine my chances at making time before I step into the ring. The more open and flowing the course, the less chance I've got.

I'm happy for something to be done about the tyre Vickie, but I don't think that "something" should be getting rid of it. If improvements in design can make it safer, so much the better. There have been splats off see saws, dog walks and A-Frames but I don't think we should get rid of those either. I don't think we need to throw the baby out with the bath water because of a few incidents. And as far as I'm aware, they are very few.

Kelpiechick: Padding? It's what they do to goalposts. And have break away tires if deemed necessary. A dog can just as easily fall off the top A-Frame or the dog walk or hit a pegged spread upright. At some point you've got to put some responsiblity back on handlers to both handle their dogs safely (something ADAA does I believe) and to teach the dog to perform the equipment safely. Most of the tire incidents I've seen, the dog didn't judge the obstacle or was handled onto it too closely to make a safe approach. Maybe some dogs need more training on it than just treating it like a different sort of jump? I can pretty much guarantee that if there was a DQ provision for unsafe handling in ANKC agility, you'd see even fewer of these kinds of incidents than you do now. Some dogs have inherently risky jump styles.. they just leap and hope. You only have to listen to the gasps from the spectators to know when its seat of the pants handling in the ring. That works fine with bar knocking but the tyre is a diferent challenge. You can't make the sport risk free IMO and retain its challenges. It's fast, it involves obstacles and dogs are being manoevred. If the issue is too much speed for the oncoming obstacle or too tight/angled an approach, then its either a poorly designed course or a handling/training issue IMO. Course safety issues should be addressed on the spot at trials and in my experience, they are. We have dogs at my club that will win when a course is like a race track (all fast and flowing) but can't do tight turns. Personally I think all courses need a little of both. It shouldn't be that a dog has to turn inside out to make the next obstacle (as some larger striding faster dogs are almost forced to do on some courses) but it also shouldn't be just about speed across the ground either. As a smaller dog handler (yes, you all knew this was coming :wink:) a course where the obstacles are all 8metres apart on a series of large curves is not what I call an even playing field. I've seen ones like that and scratched my dog. My challenge as a smaller dog handler is always to get my dog to take the most efficient line on the course (as opposed to fastest time across the ground) and the longer that line is, the less chance I have to qualify within time. Off soapbox now!

I didnt' attend (there are DOLers who did) but was told a dog hit an unpegged tyre and suffered a back injury.

Correct training of your dog and correct set up of equipment mitigate risks but the sport is NOT without them. Its a reminder to handlers though to check equipment when they walk courses at other clubs and to bring to the judges attention any safety risks. I've seen this done and action taken immmediately to address handler concerns. ILK, how many dogs do you know who've taken themselves out on the backyard clothes line. I've been competing in agility for 8? or so years now and I've never seen a dog seriously hurt (have heard of one serious injury to dog running in very wet conditions but that is up to handlers discretion and I don't). Handlers on the other hand.. seen a few splats involving injury, mostly due to falling.

Jysus.. every moveable item is pegged and no dog does anything onlead at our club. I hope you found a better club ML.

Yes, talk to your pup's breeder. Many of these questions are ones your breeder can help with and they'd probably be only too pleased to help you. Don't soak his food - it makes it mush and starts it deteriorating. If you are feeding a decent quality kibble, then put it down, leave it for 5 minutes and pick it up until the next feed - don't let him graze. He won't deliberately starve himself. Where are you? It's bloody hot most places and a lot of dogs have decreased appetites. If you are going to try to feed a home made diet, please do your homework. A growing pup needs a careful balance of nutrients and if you get it wrong he'll pay for it permanently. It's not rocket science but you do need to think it through. Most kibble feeders seem to really like Royal Canin. Chicken necks can be fed too but they alone won't be sufficient to provide the nutrients your pup needs. I suggest you find a good dog club or trainer and start classes ASAP. A pup can be taught to "give" but how you do it will determine your success. Tugging and growling may be play but unless someone saw your pup, they couldn't say for sure.

That should never happen. Every tire should be pegged, every time. I understand the incident at last year's Nationals was worsened by an unpegged tire. I've never witnessed a major prang involving a tire. Worst splats I've seen have generally been handlers, not dogs.

What sort of exercise has your pup had since you got him? Did the vet indicate a possible cause for the arthritis? Some actions you can take for the life of your pup are to keep him lean and avoid highly stressful exercise like ball throwing.

I've seen handlers who can't get an automatic sit when heeling without using the leash as a "handbrake". Remove the leash and the dog doesn't get the secondary cue.. no sit. Ditto for slight checks on turns.

Corvus: Good luck on a mob of roos bounding invitingly off. And don't forget to factor in that dogs' brains are functioning differently when in full on prey drive - there are suggestions that they may not even HEAR you call them. I think the aversives work because they reduce the drive allowing the owner to get the dog's focus off the prey. Unless you can do that, you are in trouble. Clearly the guy that uses tugging is redirecting prey drive but squirrels don't suddenly spring up from nowhere and bound off over the hill like roos do.

Corvus: Really? How would you propose to stop a dog performing a highly self rewarding behaviour like stock or wildlife chasing without the use of aversives? I'm not talking about simply managing it but actually eliminating the desire to do it. I've heard the PP trainers tell people that the handler simply has to make the dog returning to the handler "more rewarding" than the chasing. Lots of luck I say. I don't think it's any coincidence that many of the behaviours people find the hardest to modify in their dogs are self rewarding ones, do you?

Maximum: Have a good look at the teeth between his upper canines? There should be 6 little incisors there? Are there 6 and are they all the same size? Incisor teeth are usually the first to be replaced and between 4-5 months is the usual start time. He may also be replacing molars as well with the big adult canines around the last to arrive. He may be teething already but if not, he's bound to start soon. And yes, a lot of chewing can be expected.