poodlefan

What's that - a week's worth for a Great Dane?

But I don't think breed clubs would want to be flooded with pet members, at least not as full members. To encourage pet members, but keep to their own goals as breeders and breed associations, they really need to set up a cheaper ancillary type membership. Perhaps a member or 2 from the "companion' section could then be invited into general committee positions to help with events planning etc. You need the 'setup' before you can encourage pet members (and as breed clubs don't have this set up, explains why they tend to be, let's call it 'less encouraging" about getting pet owners to join). Have you ever been member of a breed club? Most struggle for any members and would welcome new blood with open arms. Any member of a breed club that isn't a breeder is a pet member aren't they? I know plenty of such folk in breed clubs including me. Why would breeder's goals be different to pet members goals? Breed clubs exist to promote and support the breed - and most purebred dogs end up as pets. Why don't you join your State breed club and make changes from the inside? You're not talking about huge memberships and separate sections anyway - many breed clubs would be lucky to have 50 members. No reason why a "pet member" couldn't be a full committee member or even President if they want to be. Show folk and breeders aren't from Mars. They are pet owners too. They gush over puppies, play with their dogs and cry over dogs that have died just like "normal" people. If you want to close the barriers between "them and us" perhaps you could stop viewing breed club members as different to you. The only difference between your situations in some cases is that you don't do any formal activities with your dogs. The fact that your dog doesn't have papers is no barrier to you joining and helping to promote your breed. You learn very quickly that anyone prepared to put in is very welcome whether they have a Grand Champion or a pet shop dog.

Despite you labelling me as generally an argumentative person, I will have to disappoint you. I see many advantages in it. What I dont' see is motivation or scope to do it in most breed clubs now. Feel free to join up and organise it though. It seems to me that you're claiming you'll do a far superior job of it than current club committees can. Big talk - lets see if you can deliver. I look forward to seeing you getting involved. What breed have you got again?

Just what I need more time sitting at the computer Forums are fun but they are no substitute for real life hands on getting out and about with your dog but since I'm just the owner of a dodgy pet shop dog I should just crawl back under my rock hey?. No need to play the martyr. I've never said anything derogatory about your dog. It's not his fault he ended up where he did or if he has health issues. I've met many lovely BYB dogs, petshop dogs and DD. It's their breeders that I take issue with, not the dogs themselves. The more you learn now about dog breeds , the better the choice you'll make in your next dog. Getting out and about with your current dog won't help you pick that one. If you want to get out and about, train this one - you'll get to see so many different breeds and meet a lot of very knowledgeable dog folks. No one gives a damn about the origins of your dog in dog sports - its what you can do as a team that matters.

I don't think you can have any real understanding for how angry and disgusted most ANKC registered dog breeders and owners are by commercially motivated dog breeding practices. I view anyone who buys from such sources as supporting them, whether or not that was their intention. If you want to be accepted into the fold, start with the affiliated dog training clubs and make your next dog one with a pedigree. The clubs will be waiting a while for my money then I can't get another dog till these ones expire which hopefully wont be for about 10 years (sibe is 3 chi is 6). I haven't got an interest in formal agility or obedience with my current dogs I'm just taking my sibe to a local private trainer. Guess I wont be learning much about the breeds and breed clubs for several years yet You can learn plenty about breeds without joining a breed club. Try breed specific chat lists and forums - there are heaps of those.

I don't think you can have any real understanding for how angry and disgusted most ANKC registered dog breeders and owners are by commercially motivated dog breeding practices. I view anyone who buys from such sources as supporting them, whether or not that was their intention. If you want to be accepted into the fold, start with the affiliated dog training clubs and make your next dog one with a pedigree.

The ANKC allows owners of unregistered purebred dogs (and crossbred dogs) to join their affiliate companion dog training clubs, register their dogs as Associates and compete in their obedience and agility events for ANKC recognised titles. Perhaps you can do that. If what you are looking for is a social club then you need to network with other pet dog owners of your breed. That can be done through either a dog training club or a breed club. Some breed clubs have social days. Plenty more use their specialties as get togethers. But if you are not a member of the club, don't expect those who work their arses off to cater to your needs. Participation in club activity is what will allow you to influence the club's direction. Those active in club activities are usually pretty busy people. I can see PF is in an argumentative mood today - but when isn't she? Please accept my apologies for arguing passionately in support of purebred registered dogs on forum specifically set up for their promotion. I may be "argumentative" Kismetkat but I don't ever get personal. I suggest you would be wise to adopt a similar level of self restraint rather quickly. What I fail to understand is why you expect a bunch of registered purebred dog people to cater for your need for a social outlet?

And if you attend any meetings, bear in mind that the facilities you use are paid for by the Canine Control - who raise their funds through shows, trials and litter registrations. You're benefitting from the efforts of registered purebred dog breeders and buyers, just by being on the grounds. Where are all the facilities provided for dog owners by puppy farmers and pet stores?

The ANKC allows owners of unregistered purebred dogs (and crossbred dogs) to join their affiliate companion dog training clubs, register their dogs as Associates and compete in their obedience and agility events for ANKC recognised titles. Perhaps you can do that. If what you are looking for is a social club then you need to network with other pet dog owners of your breed. That can be done through either a dog training club or a breed club. Some breed clubs have social days. Plenty more use their specialties as get togethers. But if you are not a member of the club, don't expect those who work their arses off to cater to your needs. Participation in club activity is what will allow you to influence the club's direction. Those active in club activities are usually pretty busy people.

Not what someone reading Kate's website is going to learn is it?

As the owner of a pedigree rescue dog that I can't prove is a pedigree (tho rescue 'know' that he is as they recognise by looking at him which breeder he came from) I would love to be able to do this. It would be a hands-on way to learn more about the breed that I have come to love as any future dogs I get will be this breed. It would also give me a good reason to actually join the breed club - but as it stands there is no incentive for me to pay up and join as they club doesn't offer much for 'pet owners' and offers nothing for those of us that don't have a bit of paper. They frequently offer quite a bit for dogs of their breed with no papers. Breed rescues are often called upon to take on unpedigreed dogs that have fallen on hard times. Who do you think pays to take on dogs not bred or sold by their own memberships? Not the people who breed or buy them, that's for sure. Seems to me that you need to ask not what the clubs should be doing for people who bought dogs from sources outside their memberships but what as a breed fancier you might be doing to assist your breed of choice. You join a breed club because you love the breed, not because you gain personally from it. Backyard breeders are the scourge of the purebred dog world - what do you really want breed club members to do for those who buy from people who do nothing but line their pockets at the expense of the breed club members love

Sheriden my point was about dialogue needing to be opened up, and while I threw in "pet shops" the main thrust is that many posters in this thread have been dismissive and even antagonistic of the science researchers, yet who would you need to speak to about your protein losing disease...? You seem to be missing the point of my posts. I fully support scientific researchers. I regard puppy farmers as the scum of the earth, ESPECIALLY when they make claims with no scientific grounding in order to denigrate purebred dogs and flog their own 'product'. Or did you miss Kate's distortion of facts on her website when she claims: An interesting manipulation of the studies when the first thing most dog bite researchers will tell you is that attribution of breed to a attacking dog is fraught with risk. Why are people taking what this person says on face value when she makes claims with absolutely no basis IN scientific knowledge.

You couldn't be more wrong. The kennel that produces some of Australia's top working Labrador retrievers is the very same kennel that has provided the foundation stock for both Guide Dog and Customs dog breeding programs. National Retrieving Champions and guide dogs are coming out of the very same bloodline. Maybe you need to meet some of those retrieving trial dogs before you write them off as not being able to work with high levels of distraction. They are expected to ignore rabbits they spring on their way to retrieve their birds - and they do. It is that desire to "work" that can be channelled by talented trainers in new directions. Guide dogs, assistance dogs, drug detecting, bomb detecting... these are NOT low drive dogs. Stable temperaments in the field become stable temperaments in busy urban environments as both dogs need to concentrate on the task they have been given. A dog with no drive to do anything is a dog that cannot be trained to do much either. You build focus and effort by rewarding the dog's drive. The answer to providing family pets as I've repeatedly stated is not to dumb down the dog but to match the dog and the family. I leave you to contemplate reducing the retrieving instinct in breeds developed to do just that with soft mouths and very high levels of bite inhibtion. It is not coincidence that sees the Retrievers as some of the world's most popular family pets.

Perhaps veterinary research can explain to me how any pup reared in a commercial breeding facility is going to receive the care, attention and socialisation it requires to make it the best possible prospect for a family day. Research exists to show that pups whelped and raised outside traditional domestic environments miss out on important experiences in their first two months of life. Clearly the American Veterinary Association holds this view. Here is their policy paper on the subject. There is plenty of research out there about this. Here is a link to more. You don't have to be a scientist to make the link between a puppy whelped and raised with minimal human contact and a dog with a lifelong suspicion of handling and strangers though. You can talk about ethics in the commerical raising and sale of pups till the cows come home but you can't get past the fact that these pups are not well set up to live as family dogs. Dog trainers know this. Good ANKC breeders know this. I hope we see some research on this done here in Australia before anyone embraces puppy farming. As far as I'm concerned an ethical puppy farmer is an oxymoron. You don't give a damn about dogs and treat them like units of production.

Gundogs and Working dogs sure got the worst ring conditions. You'd have had no problems spotting a water repellent coat in the Gundogs. I saw some ACD folk heading back to their car with every dog coated in mud to the hocks. I hope the coated breeds didn't fare too badly early on.

If one dog keeps pulling the other dog's off, I'd either leave them without collars when they are unsupervised or use breakaway collars only. A dog's jaw caught in another dog's collar can spell disaster for both dogs.

The chicken bites aren't pure meat.. my dogs didn't like them. I think the delights are the new semi moist range. My dogs liked those! Cubes are pure meat.

Did the Whippet get Best in Show Mandalay?

No luck for Howard today. The Whippet ring belonged to Team Byerley. Howard had his usual fabulous time meeting new friends, we got to pack our gear up dry and we didn't need tractor assistance to get out of the car park.

The only ethical response to puppy farmers and pups in petshops is to ban both practices completely. Happy healthy family dogs are not whelped in warehouse conditions or sold via petshops. The research on that exists. The reality is that dogs suffer at the hands of people who exploit them for profit. If you think for one moment that we're all going to "grow up" and accept that then you've sadly underestimated the depth of passion some people have for dogs and the utter disgust with which they regard those who exploit them. If feeling that way makes me a "hyena" then I'll wear my spots with pride. The only reason that the profit driven dog exploiters are even talking about ethics is because the RSPCA has them fair and square in their crosshairs and they know it. I'll be happy to assist the RSPCA to fire those shots. The reality is that they're trying to improve their image. You need to look past the pretty words and see the practices - they aren't changing. When Kate removes every derogatory comment on her website about purebred dogs then maybe I'll take her seriously.

Join a dog training club or take some lessons PD. You'll learn a lot more by watching and doing than by reading. And it will be good for Poppy to meet dogs in controlled circumstances.

The "them" is anyone involved with dogs. Researchers, rescue organisations, dog owners, vets, vet nurses, groomers, scientists, judges, kennel councils, RSPCA, pet breeders, pet shops, feed suppliers, ... The day I'm expected to find common ground with a petshop owner that sources 6 week old pups from puppy farmers and sells them to the first person with a credit card is the day they'll be wearing parkas in hell. There is no common ground to be found with people who exploit dogs for profit. Period.

Thank God for that.

I don't take notice of puppyfarmers, no. I'm surprised you would. Yes, we can. If "us" is ethical registered dog breeders and people who make some effort to learn about a breed before buying and "them" is the breed for profit brigade and irresponsible dog buyers then I'm in favour of division. Kate uses yellow Lab and Golden Retriever bitches and an apricot toy poodle dog. She AI's the bitches.