poodlefan

Added to explain my use of the term "bite type" Dr. Ian Dunbar's bite assessment criteria when assessing a dog bite. Level 1- Dog growls, lunges, snarls-no teeth touch skin. Mostly intimidation behavior. Level 2- Teeth touch skin but no puncture. May have red mark/minor bruise from dog’s head or snout, may have minor scratches from paws/nails. Minor surface abrasions acceptable. Level 3- Punctures ½ the length of a canine tooth, one to four holes, single bite.No tearing or slashes.Victim not shaken side to side. Bruising. Level 4- One to four holes from a single bite, one hole deeper than ½ the length of a canine tooth, typically contact/punctures from more than canines only. Black bruising, tears and/or slashing wounds. Dog clamped down and shook or slashed victim. Level 5- Multiple bites at Level 4 or above. A concerted, repeated attack. Level 6- Any bite resulting in death of a human.

Dogs "turning" is largely a myth. The fact that the victim cannot identify the trigger for the attack doesn't mean there wasn't one. :D

Or a smaller/weaker victim! I agree with Tess32. The fact that the dog is attempting to maim or kill a person is more relevant than whether or not the dog actually manages to accomplish the deed. Look to bite type then. Puncture wounds don't maim. Ripping, head shaking and use of rear molars on bone do.

Tess, I'm limiting my discussion to dogs that maim or kill. I don't think your dog fits that profile. :D Doesn't he? What if he had the jaw strength of a pitbull or more powerful breed? I think it's hard to really go "only THIS amount of bites = really bad"... I'm not saying he had the intent to KILL of course, but it was still a 'sustained attack', and these same arguments come up. Has he maimed or killed someone? Those are the dogs the research looks at. Look any dog can bite. Any dog if sufficiently provoked for what every reason may bite repeatedly. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about dogs that kill and severely injure people. Have a good think about the difference in injury type between a dog that inflicts bites without tearing (my guess is your dog punctured only?) and the sort of dog that literally tears people apart as the dog this thread is about did. Ian Dunbar has some interesting stuff on bite types. How the dog places its mouth on a person and what teeth it uses can be real indicators of the intent of the bite. The research is fascinating if somewhat morbid. Did you know that there are breeds of dogs that have only ever attacked as a pack and never singly. There is a large breed of dog that has only killed tiny babies.. never an adult. Interestingly those dogs don't tend to have bite histories. If you can get a copy of Fatal Dog Attacks, it makes sobering reading. And the common theme running through it is that human contribution be it neglect, failure to supervise or active encouragement of aggression, always plays its part. Breed labelling neglects that factor entirely.

Tess, I'm limiting my discussion to dogs that maim or kill. I don't think your dog fits that profile. :D

I don't deny it Anne and all the research supports that it plays a part. What concerns me (as I posted yesterday) is that the moment a breed label is applied to a dog, all other searching for explanations ceases. Genetics alone can never explain these sorts of tragedies. I'd like to know how that dog was acquired, for what purpose, how it was socialised and housed and what function it performed for its owner. I'd also like to know its age, sex and desexing status. And I'd particularly like to know if it had a history of aggression. There ARE pitbulls, Rotties etc that are big cuddly teddy bears.. partly because they've been bred for stable temperament and no doubt because they've been raised to form effective social bonds with people. Any large powerful dog requires effort, management and respect. That includes breeds most folk would never consider a danger.. Golden Retrievers are just as capable of this sort of damage. Their saving grace is that they haven't been irresponsibly bred as extensively as they are overseas and few people who want a 'tough' breed are interested in acquring one. I really feel for people who love the big powerful breeds. And I really hope they managed to save this poor woman's arm.

Brooke you have a hard decision to make. If you want to continue foster care, you need to rehome Ben. Can you talk to his breeder? Is there a GSD rescue who might assist? Be careful vetting homes.... a 5 year old GSD is a prime candidate for acquistion by dodgy security types. He might find himself in PNG under pretty ordinary conditions. No flames from me. If you're going to continue fostering, I think that rehoming Ben is the right thing to do. If the right home cannot be found, give him his wings. :D

Like or not, breed alone can not and does not explain how such attacks happen. I've posted it all before but please read carefully what the research tells us and ponder the questions below. 1. Was this a "family" dog or a "resident" dog? Quote from the USAs National Canine Research Council: 2. How many factors of this attack fit those identified by Karen Delise in her book Fatal Dog Attacks? Incidents like this don't come out of nowhere. Anyone who has even a basic knowledge of dog attack research would be thinking this dog had a bite history. Look to the other end of the leash before you write this off as an attack by a "bad' dog.

What I find particularly tragic about such attacks is that in addition to the harm caused to the victims, time and again the labelling of an attacking dog as a particular breed stops all questions about the dogs background and life being asked. Regardless of breed, dogs that maim and kill are made, not born. All the studies show that. Many such dogs are young, male, entire, poorly socialised and trained and acquired and kept in a manner that is as far from being a "family pet' as you can get. Now the breed card has been played, no facts will be provided about how, where and when this dog was acquired and how it lived. I'd be prepared to bet spades this dog has a history of aggression but the owner is unlikely to be candid about it even if asked. So the opportunity for others to learn from this tragedy is denied. Again.

Has your vet run any blood tests? I'd suggest thyroid for a start. Have you considered seeing a veterinary specialist?

I don't have a giant breed pup but if I did, I'd be feeding the best quality giant breed puppy food I could afford. Stuff up protein, calcium and phosphorus levels and you could end up with growth problems with life long effects. Bevo, I suggest you head to the Great Dane thread in the breed subforums and ask people who know this breed what they recommend. I'd certainly not be experimenting with diet on a growing giant breed.

Dog was PTS at the scene.

Paper said damage to arms was defensive wounds. Sounds like she covered her head while being attacked. Wouldn't it be nice if some facts about the dog's history got reported and we weren't left to speculate. One report said the lady was minding the dog..

Shonkypaws has always been the colour specialist. They may be going to breed merle Cockers.. lots of $$$$ in that I reckon.

A well fitted halti doesn't restrict panting.

As this occurred in Victoria, Hugh Wirth is going to have a field day. Expect further govt repercussions if it is an APBT.. my guess is there will be photos of the dog at some stage.

Yikes! That's one nasty attack.

Will the puppy have access to the loo when its an adult and you're at work? Is your balcony secure.. could a dog fall off it?

Good luck Sarah!

What happens if a suitable foster home can't be found?

If people are interested in the issues long term shelter life can create, Jean Donaldson has written an excellent article here. It's an issue that anyone who advocates "no kill" shelters really needs to think about. Shelters tend to be fairly spartan, highly stressful places that are disease hot spots. I know that long termers tend to be kept separate but its still not a great life. It's certainly not where I'd love a much loved dog to live out its days. Bear in mind that such dogs may live for many many years.

The best home for her dogs if she passes away is someone elses. Even the best shelter is no place for a dog to spend months or years. Her best option would be to talk to family and friends about her wishes and to aim for rehoming. Many long term shelter dogs have significant behaviour issues caused by the conditions they are kept in. Well loved dogs deserve a better life than being kept in a run with a brief outing a day if they're lucky. Warehousing dogs doesn't sit at all well with me for any reason. Personally, I think she should rethink the 'must stay together' proviso. Single dogs have much better chances of rehoming and can rebond to new dogs and situations without one another.

My club allows vaccination or titres. Most immunologists acknowledge antibody titres as a legitimate method of establishing immunity. That's good enough for me.

They don't explain the problems because they might lose a sale. End of story. When a person's only interest is in selling pups, don't expect to receive any decent advice about their on going care.

It's the tightness of the nose band and the pressure it places on the dogs sensitive muzzle that causes discomfort and, in many cases, knocks the dog out of drive. It's the lack of drive that stops the pulling in many cases. I've seen halti's fitted so that they're actually placing pressure on the dogs lower eyelids. Can you fit a hand or several fingers between the nose band and your dog's muzzle? That's how loose halters are worn on horses. They are not fitted 'snugly'. Where that noseband sits on a dog is one of the most sensitive areas of its head. The head piece keeps that pressure constant. Mind you, I've seen dogs fitted with haltis haul their owners down the street. I shudder to think what's happening to them chiropractically.