poodlefan
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Posts posted by poodlefan
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Congratulations for holding a fundamental misunderstanding of dog aggression and the nature of the APBT. Dog and people aggression are rarely found in the same animal and at no stage has the APBT been bred to be aggressive to people. How the hell do you think they managed to handle such dogs in fighting pits?
The no 1 breed for dog bites in Canada is the Golden Retriever. Shall we ban those also?
Actually, there does seem to be a growing problem of aggression in Goldies. No way should this lead to a breed ban. But I do think some strong peer pressure should be directed to the bloodlines of aggressive goldies.
http://www.ygrr.org/surrender/surrender-aggressive.html
http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2009/01/15/are-golden-retrievers-becoming-more-aggressive/
I don't trust government to make good decisions relating to dogs. But it does the dog world no good to deny that there is a genetic component to aggression (HA, DA, fear aggression, any or all of the above). Those of us who breed dogs need to take this genetic component seriously.
And the reasons are known. Increasing popularity has led to poor breeding practices by those doing it for profit and selling them to families with the message that "these are safe family dogs".
Complacency coupled with individuals whose bite inhibition is not what is should be.. and lots of resource guarding behaviours.. do the math.
They actually did a study that saw that GRs bred to be "quieter" had less bite inhibtion than more high drive field types.
You meddle with genetics at your peril. Put out the misinformation that some breeds are "safe" in the same way that some "breeds" are dangerous and this is the result.
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Nearly always, in the case of horrific dog attacks the dog/s are known or feared in their community. Neighbours cross the street when they pass the house or don't check the mail when the dogs are out. They note the dogs are not walked or spend a lot of time barking or are kept under the house etc. I'd speak to the neigbour if you can, and complain about the dog to the council if you can't. You have the right to enjoy your property too.
Wrong.
Nearly always, in the case of fatal dog attacks, the resident dog is responsible.
Don't you folk actually read the research????
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Labradors weren't bred to fight. Pitbulls were (and in many cases, still are). The stupidity of your argument is breathtaking.
Charming.
Resorting to insults... looks like your argument is slipping Matthew.. along with your manners.
Rounded up all the Beagles yet.. you know, those dogs that NEVER kill...
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May be that in Canada there were alot of bites from Retrievers, but how many were fatal? Zero - none! How many fatal pitbull attacks have we seen in the last few years? Far too many!
Mathew, it would be nice if you actually checked the facts before making such assertions.
OMG - a Beagle was responsible for a fatal attack.. and retriever mixes.. ban them!!!!
OMG look at the stats for the Pit Bulls
Pit bull TYPES... and lets face it, if its over 20kg, not readily identifiable as another breed, and powerfully built, its a pitbull. All dog attack researchers are very wary of breed attribution and all note that it isn't helpful in understanding what makes a dangerous dog.
Its a message few anti pitbull crusaders seem capable of grasping.
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A dog that attacks a person is vicious, full stop. I have groomed tiny dogs that are wholly vicious and I believe allowed to get away with it because they are small and cute looking. To focus on the news item and give respect to the death of a child is the point here. Pit Bull Terriers are large powerful dogs that have no place living in a crowded ( read suburban ) area.
And based on that logic Labradors are large powerful dogs that should be similary restricted. riggggght.
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May be that in Canada there were alot of bites from Retrievers, but how many were fatal? Zero - none! How many fatal pitbull attacks have we seen in the last few years? Far too many!
Mathew, it would be nice if you actually checked the facts before making such assertions.
OMG - a Beagle was responsible for a fatal attack.. and retriever mixes.. ban them!!!!
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May be that in Canada there were alot of bites from Retrievers, but how many were fatal? Zero - none! How many fatal pitbull attacks have we seen in the last few years? Far too many!
It has been proven that most of the "pibulls" weren't. Where does that leave us? Lets ban crossbred dogs because seriously that's what most of the fatalities are caused by.
Go and research how the issue was handled in Calgary. In that city, with no BSL, dog bites plummetted where in BSL cities they increased.
The differences was that education, not prohibition was the strategy.
Banning a breed does not make a community safer.
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I assume gundog and herding breeds would be right up there with bites PF given how mouthy both groups are. However if they tabled bites that require hospitalisation by breed I think those stats would be wildly different.
The other reason they're right up there is that they are very popular dogs. More of a breed generally equates to more bites.
Almost any breed of dog is capable of inflicting serious damage on a child. Children aged 1-4 are the most frequent victims of fatal dog attacks.
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Almost every dog is capable of snapping, but is it a coincidence that pitbulls are the dogs most commonly associated with human deaths or horrendous injuries suffered by those lucky enough to live? I think not.
Pitbulls are NOT the dogs most commonly associated with human deaths.
Do your homework.
Let me check the statistics to see how many people died from an attack by a Beagle last year...
While you're at it, check what breeds top the bite stats. Seems to me that reference to statistics might shatter a few illusions for you. Note that most researchers are highly wary of breed attibution and suggest that its inaccurate in many cases.
It might benefit a few folk to actually read the research on dog induced fatalities. What's missing from a some opinions being expressed here is any real understanding of what makes a truely dangerous dog. Breed is one factor but it sure as hell isn't the main one.
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If that was one of my dogs it would be dead. No way in hell would I get it assessed - it would be getting the needle.
Raz, i am sure it will be destroyed, no argument, but at a guess the assessment could be to find why perhaps? Thats the only reason I can see.
When you ascribe the behaviour to breed, all further assessment ceases - that is the danger of BSL.
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Almost every dog is capable of snapping, but is it a coincidence that pitbulls are the dogs most commonly associated with human deaths or horrendous injuries suffered by those lucky enough to live? I think not.
Pitbulls are NOT the dogs most commonly associated with human deaths.
Do your homework.
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Unfortunately, it IS the breed. They have been bred to fight over many, many years. It is imprinted into their genetics in the same way Retrievers were bred to fetch their masters' ducks, etc when hunting. No one, and I don't care how much of an expert they claim to be, but no one can control these dogs and stop them from attacking when they want to.
APBTs were bred to fight DOGS. A dog that could not be handled by humans in the figtting pit was culled.
Retrievers top the bite statistics in Canada. Shall we now ban those too?
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This breed of dogs (pitbull) needs to be banned, period. They have been bred over many, many years to be fighting dogs. That is their pedigree, it is what they were bred to do. They weren't bred to be cuddly playthings for the kids to poke and prod. They fight, maim and kill and once they have experienced the taste of human blood they will more often than not be involved in repeat attacks. It is as simple as that and arguing otherwise is just plain stupid and irresponsible. There is no need for these kinds of vicious dogs to be kept as pets by anyone. I don't care how much of an expert on this breed someone claims to be, you cannot make this breed of dogs a safe breed. It is imprinted into their brains to fight and takes just one moment, one thing for them to be set off and then there's virtually no stopping them except a Police Officer and his gun. Jailing or fining owners is not the answer, as it will not save victims of these aggressive, powerfully built dogs. We need to be more proactive, rather than reacting only after someone has been maimed or killed. The only responsible course of action is for the breed to be banned and for breeding these dogs to also be banned until they cease to exist.
Congratulations for holding a fundamental misunderstanding of dog aggression and the nature of the APBT. Dog and people aggression are rarely found in the same animal and at no stage has the APBT been bred to be aggressive to people. How the hell do you think they managed to handle such dogs in fighting pits?
The no 1 breed for dog bites in Canada is the Golden Retriever. Shall we ban those also?
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Oh no, i got the sarcasm :p
I do apologise, and have removed the comment. Altho i dont think with 3 year olds anything is deliberate. My comments were more directed at the PRO BSL comments. It was a moment of weakness and i have had a moment to cool down, and realise the comment was not helpful.
As i said before, there is no excuse, the owner will have to pay the penalty for this crime.
Sorry to those i offended.
Look accidents happen. Gates get left open. But the overwhelming majority of loose dogs do NOT go on to savage and kill. Lets focus on what process made that dog what it was and not how it happened to be in that place at that time. Its the only thing that can help prevent another one of these disasters.
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Heresay. You have no proof of that.
No it's not. It's opinion and nothing more.
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they have just said that the minister has said there are up to 10000 dangerous dogs unregistered in Vic, and he will be increasing funding to councils to do squads to detect (and who knows what then, presumably confiscate and kill)), any dangerous dogs, as well as start up a dangerous dogs hotline, for people to ring up and presumably to dob in a dog, hope that innocent dogs do not get caught up in this from vexacious people with a grudge
Ah the irony.
If councils were adequately funded to enforce existing dangerous dog legislation, not a whit of this new "action" would be necessary.
But hey, our pollies have to be seen to be doing something. :rolleyes:
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Once again...it was an example as to HOW...not WHY...the why would be the upbringing/living situation of the dog and the influences of the owner to name just a couple...i would have imagined you of all people would have understood that.
sue you? what on earth for? i think i missed something there??
Yes, my sarcasm. ;)
Suggesting that a 3 year old somehow deliberately contributed to a series of circumstances that sees her dead in her front yard or home due to the actions of a dog that was outside its own yard doesn't wash with me. The only "blame" that can be layed here is on the owner of a dog that was prepared to savage three human beings when outside its yard. That kind of dog doesn't come out of nowhere.
Yes, victims contribute to these situations. But your hypothesis attempted to shift the responsiblity for the attack away from where it needs to be.. on the dog and the person that owns it. It's that simple.
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Go Magic!
Congratulations Gail!
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What advice would you give someone looking for a second or third dog to compet with and hopefully learn more in their chosen sport?
Research good genetics eg: just because someone owns a working breed dog doesnt mean it will work........
Look around the trialling scene for a dog you'd like to own and find out where it came from.
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@poodlefan, how was it laying blame? it was just an example of HOW it might have gotten into the house...
You've looked to the victim for the answer to how the dog accessed the house and why it became aggressive. The victim is a 3 or 4 year old child.
As Clyde pointed out, even IF this were the case, it does not provide an explanation for why a child is dead and two people are injured.
You can express any opinion you like. If, in my opinion, what you've said seeks to suggest that the victim is in some way a contributor to her death, I'll say so. I think its insensitive and unhelpful. Sue me.
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Hungarian Vizsla
[English] Pointer
Curly Coated Retriever
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I'm not excited by its definition of rescue. If an animal is fortunate enough to move on to a better ownership, it has been rescued from a lesser situation, and happily doesn't care whether it was bought, sold, seized or stolen.
I would beg to disagree. You don't "rescue" a dog if you're condemning its parents to misery. Calling a BYB or pet shop pup a "rescue" is a salve to the owners conscience and in no way a reflection of the reality of a commerical transaction.
It also makes light of the efforts of "real" rescuers.
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While i feel for the family, you have to wonder if the little girls didnt find the dog wandering outside, and had a play with it then took it in to mommy to do the whole "can we keep it?" when the dog was cornered in the house it was unfamiliar with, it could have become fear aggressive? Or do the people that want the breed banned think it picked out a house with people home, and knocked down the door???
Krustie, blaming the victim will not assist the cause of this breed one iota. There's a dead 3 year old.. show some respect dude.
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Definitely look into Brittanys! They sound quite suited (Spotted Devil I think we will find wherever ESS suits Britts suits too).
ETA I can't see it either Spotted Devil.
At the risk of being flamed, Brittanies can be hard work for agility.. IMO they can be hard to keep on task. Their athleticism doesn't translate into results for the most part.
A working ESS would be a better prospect IMO.
What size Skip? Small, medium or large. My bet that most agiiteers could name the top five or so breeds in each size for you to consider.
Child Killed By Dog
in In The News
Posted · Edited by poodlefan
Wow, you've discovered statistics.
for you.
Now go to the Centre for Disease Control and note what the people who research this stuff for a living say about the accuracy of breed attribution.
Then go and have a look at the popularity of breeds in those countries.
I'm mot saying for one minute that Pitbulls can't be dangerous. But that's a hell of a long way from "ALL pitbulls MUST be dangerous".