poodlefan

The focus has become about the dog. Get real, a child is dead, ripped open and killed by a DOG. The family needs support. I would like to do something for this family. Hundreds of people here that could put their heads together and make life a little better for this poor family. Nothing can replace this little girl, but I am sure the family would appreciate support in some way in the future. A holiday down the track, a gift, a kind word on a note?

I rather fancy the idea that they might find some comfort in seeing procedures put in place to prevent similar tragedies occuring in other families.

Fat chance of that.

Yes we are called 'Poodlefans Army' or PA and we have magical coins that tell us when to meet up and get online and blatantly agree, cause none of us have our own minds.

LISTEN AND OBEY DOLERS.. you are all under my control.. or is it Troy's control

Seriously, lots of folk disagree with me.. lots of the time. Most manage to keep playing the ball though.. and don't make it personal.

I never insult them or accuse them of ganging up on me though.. perhaps I should try that. If only controlling my legions of minions wasn't so exhausting.

Oh Aidan.. a pic for you..

Check out the poll...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/child-killed-in-dog-attack-at-st-albans/story-fn7x8me2-1226116993730

All the results prove to me is that your average Australian knows bugger all about dog behaviour and even less about APBTs.

A majority vote isn't an indication of the merit of a proposal.

The thing that gets me is that a dog like a Golden Retriever is far more common in the average household than the pitbull, yet we see far more attacks and deaths from pitbulls than Golden Retrievers. I wonder why??? Could it be because it IS in fact a dangerous breed? I think so!

Do countries who do not have pitbulls through BSL have fewer dog bite related fatalities than countries who do not?

No. And in Canada cities with BSL have seen attacks remain steady where other approaches have seen them fall.

I'd love to see us move to the FCI group system.

Then I'd not have to wait for all the Dachies to be judged. ;)

I"ll be very interested to see if and how the RSPCA weigh in to this debate.

While the Victorian Pres is rabidly anti APBT, that is not the attitude of the National Pres, nor of a number of other State/Territory CEOs.

Just to be clear that is NOT my quote! It belongs to Matthew_B

Fixed.

Thanks PF! I was wondering if I would get some interesting PM's if that was left in my name

Doubt it.. in these discussions I seem to be on the receiving end of those. ;)

Just to be clear that is NOT my quote! It belongs to Matthew_B

Fixed.

.

You would more likely have to ban all dogs over 5kg.

I've heard a 15kg limit be discussed.

MathewB

It's quite simple, even you should be able to understand it. Ban the breed and it ceases to be around to kill or maim people. Yes, the dog was bred to fight other dogs, but in the absence of another dog, it'll attack anything that moves if it's in the frame of mind to do some damage. Your argument is as dumb as that regarding guns. "Guns don't kill people, people do". Take the gun out of the equation and there'd be a massive drop in the homicide rate. Same thing applies to this vicious breed. Take it out and there won't be any pitbulls to attack people.

You honestly think banning guns has made Australia safe from gun related violence?

And banning alcohol in the 20's made Americans stop drinking.

Tell you what Matthew, if you can stop needling me with personal insults long enough to go do a bit of research, come up with an example of where prohibition ALONE has resulted in the end of a practice and I'll start paying heed to your argument.

You get attacked by a dog which has been banned. Chances are that the owner will face much harsher punishment for owning a banned dog that attacked you than if the dog was not banned.

If I get attacked by a dog that's been banned I'll be happy that the owner gets charged... is that your argument for the effectiveness of breed bans?? Riiiight. Its been illegal to breed pitbulls in most Australian states for years... you think its working or making us safer?

A banned dog cannot be socialised, cannot be taken to dog training, cannot be walked.. yep, a good recipe for a well adjusted canine citizen that one.

In the meantime, be thankful I'm not reporting your petty pot shots at me. I prefer to see them here so people can judge your attitude for themselves.

And as for pitbulls "attacking anything" - just laughable really. :rolleyes:

And I don't think its fair to say that breed alone makes ANY dog "high risk".

I deliberately didn't say "high-risk breed".

Doubt you would have Aidan.. but others are.

Does anyone know if there is an increase in the numbers of humans killed or seriously injured by dogs?

My perception is that the issue is ocurring with more frequency, but this may not be the reality.

I can tell you for a fact that it pales into insignificance compared with deaths and injuries caused by bicycles.

Lets ban those too shall we? ;)

Let's be careful with any sort of blanket statement. A great owner can have a high-risk dog, and a high-risk owner can have a great dog.

I would actually like to have an unemotive discussion on the factors that contribute to risk, but the timing is not right.

True Aidan but its also fair to say that many "high risk" dogs never harm anyone due to careful management.

And I don't think its fair to say that breed alone makes ANY dog "high risk".

Hungarian Vizsla

[English] Pointer

Curly Coated Retriever

Wouldn't Curly Coated Retrievers be too big?

The two that I have met were both bigger than a GSD.

I must have missed the "not to be too big" criteria. I certainly wouldnt' think there'd be many MRCCR's in the UK.

I wish people could grasp that BSL logic is fundamentally flawed.

Its the same as saying that "red cars are statisically more involved in high speed collisions so lets ban red cars".

It doesn't take into account the fact that its drivers that cause collisions.

The idea that a dog born dangerous by virtue of its genetics just simply isn't borne out in reality. Yes, some breeds of dogs ARE more likely to be involved in serious dog attacks. But that simply doesn't translate into:

* A dog is Breed X therefore it is dangerous, OR

* A dog is Breed Y therefore it is 'safe'.

Grasp that and we start to get somewhere.

What happens to the owners of the dog who killed the child? Do they get punished in any way? Do they cop a manslaughter charge? Or do they walk away free?

Does anyone know?

Depends entirely on the details of what happened.

Look, its not beyond the realms of possiblity (not I'd argue not likely) that this dog did something completely unpredictable, given its genetics, socialisation and training. If that's the case, this is a horrific "accident".

But if this dog was raised in a manner that made this more likely, had a history of aggression etc, then the owner is clearly responsible for failing to contain it.. or was reckless as to the danger is presented to the community.

Owners of such dogs have served time before.

People a poor little girl has died here - this is not about your pit bull type dogs and how well behaved and socialised they are. This particular dog will be tested to determine breed before being PTS. The point is the damage these dogs can do when they do attack.

The response to the issue of large dogs and aggression has been dealt with in some places by banning all dogs over 30kg.

Same principle..big dogs kill the most so lets ban all big dogs. How do folk feel about that one?

can people really say, they are not more prone to attacking

No, I'm not.

Dogs bred for certain functions, bought for certain functions and possessing certain behaviours DO feature more prominently in serious dog attacks. But you can't generalise that out to individual dogs.

Great Reply. Beagles and Golen Retrievers are NOT the same as Pit Bulls

No, they're not. I'm guessing that was a big consolation to the parents of this child.

3-Year-Old Savaged by Labrador

Lucy Warren-Hill, aged 3, was playing in a neighbor's yard when the neighbor's brown labrador suddenly attacked her. According to one witness Lucy was playing with a toy which the dog tried to grab, becoming agitated the dog then attacked Lucy.

Lucy's grandmother, Jeanette White, said when they brought Lucy in from the garden: "I noticed that her face was covered in blood and her nose and forehead were cut up. Part of her nose looked like it was just coming away from her face."

Resource guarding.. very common in retrievers.. but not a universal attribute by any means.

Its generalising individual dog behaviours to breeds that leads to tragedy.. for dogs or people. Either way, its inaccurate and unsafe.

I'd hardly call this the responsibility of the Beagle:

Beagle: The fatality was a strangulation caused by tugging on a leash which was around a child's neck.

and the retrievers:

Golden retriever: One dog responsible for an attack was rabid. Another accidentally strangled Kaitlyn Hassard, 6, of Manorville, Long Island, on 1/24/06, by tugging at her scarf.

Might be a good idea for everyone to read the fine print.

Why, no one's bothering on the breed attribution issue. ;)

131 deaths attributed to the Pit Bull Terrier and 6 deaths attributed to the Pit Bull mixes or possibly types. 131 is by far the majority of fatalities. I think with those statistics and Cesar Milan's popularity the Pit Bull is probably more easily identifiable in USA and Canada than many other breeds. My focus in this forum topic is the Pitbull.

Clearly.

It's a pity that your focus can't be on what makes a dangerous dog because the answer than that is a hell of a lot more complex than "breed".

Hey, avoid the personal attacks and bullying please. I've given my opinion and time, have a nice day.

Seems to me that I'm the only person so far to be called "stupid" in this thread.

Someone disagreeing with you is not "bullying". Where's the personal attack I'm alleged to have made on you.

The dog wasnt' a pitbull. Where does that leave your argument?

I wonder if this was a part time pigging dog??????

Ok, so the dog is not a pitbull.

Where does that leave us?

No use arguing with you. You're obviously a pitbull fanboy and will not see anyone else's side of the story no matter how futile your argument is. I'm off for lunch.

Actually I'm a poodle and whippet owning female who's never owned and will never own an APBT and I live in one of the only places in Australia where it is still legal to own one.

Matthew, you show me ONE place anywhere in the world where banning breeds has lead to a decrease in dog fatalities. I can tell you now that you won't find one. How is that a "futile" argument?

Breed bans don't work. There are no simple solutions to the questions of what makes dangerous dogs. Until we as humans accept our responsiblity for creating such animals, children will continue to die.

131 deaths attributed to the Pit Bull Terrier and 6 deaths attributed to the Pit Bull mixes or possibly types. 131 is by far the majority of fatalities. I think with those statistics and Cesar Milan's popularity the Pit Bull is probably more easily identifiable in USA and Canada than many other breeds. My focus in this forum topic is the Pitbull.

Clearly.

It's a pity that your focus can't be on what makes a dangerous dog because the answer than that is a hell of a lot more complex than "breed".

You need to see K9 Pro and sooner rather than later.