poodlefan

How do you do that?

yes, clearly it would more effective, but who makes that call on the wrong or right person to own a dog ?

By licensing owners, by enforcing EXISTING registration and desexing laws and by educating people about how to buy and raise dogs.

And by tossing the book hard at the head of anyone who fails to act responsibly as a dog owner. Starting now.

The community fear is being fueled by this very real,recent news item. I know that "banning dogs breeds doesn't stop dog attacks". Stopping dog attacks is a huge issue and you can't fix it in one step but you can make a step to stop people keeping the wrong type of dog. If the 30 year old male didn't have the dog, the little girl would be alive today. I am against BSL in theory, but I think when dogs start killing kids it is crisis time.

We can also make a step to stop the wrong kind of people having any dog. Frankly I think that would be far more effective, don't you?

Sorry, I just don't think the argument of its not a purebred Pit bull is helping your cause

they are being identified as pitbull crosses, to the general public they look like pitbulls, they seem to have pitbull in them...

yes, it is a mongrel, but that is not what the general public are hearing or seeing

they are not seeing a labrador cross killing a child, they are seeing a pitbull cross doing that,

Labradors have been involved in some quite serious incidents in recent years. When a dog of that breeding is involved, its written off as an aberation.

Wow, sheer lunacy! If we believed you, every Police Dog Squad member and security guard dog unit would be suffering numerous injuries caused by their dogs. The fact that they don't is because the breeds selected are those which can be trained to restrain their aggressiveness and to attack only when commanded. The pitbull that killed the little girl that is the subject of this topic could not be stopped no matter what.

The dog that killed this little girl wasn't a pitbull Matthew and you know it.

The overwhelming majority of individuals of breeds used for police and security work fail the grade for a range of reasons. BTW, dog bites are pretty common in dog handlers.

Which part of "because some pitbulls might be dangerous doesn't mean ALL of them are" can't you grasp.

Some Labradors are dangerous Matthew. Seriously scarey dogs. Doesnt mean all of them are and you're in a better position than most to know it.

But take a poorly bred Labrador, fail to socialise it to recognise children as somethign other than prey, fail to teach it bite inhibition, fail to keep it in a manner that sees it form good social bonds with people, fail to train it to come back when its called and fail to exercise it regularly and you've got a recipe for a dangerous dog. The breed matters only as far as size and power go. It matter as far as bite thresholds and bite inhibitions go. It also matter as far as drives go. Crossbreed it with other large and powerful dogs and your capacity to know what its drives and inhibitions are decreases exponentially.

But none of those qualities is restriced to particular breeds, nor shared by all individuals within a breed. Assuming so is the path to disaster and that's the path that BSL takes.

That is a good point SpotTheDog however I'd hope most people on here would have a basic understanding of dogs and see this for what it really is, strong, agile, versatile and trainable.

yeah but it is a public forum and at least one media outlet (The Punch, part of news ltd) has linked to dogzonline saying that people are defending child killing dogs.

A wholly inaccurate assertion and just what I'd expect from that style of journalism. No one in their right minds could defend what this dog did. Some of us just happen to think that its owner should bear the bulk of the responsiblitity. The dog will pay with its life (and this must be done). The owner - lets see what he has to say about where he got the dog from, how he raised it and managed it.

PitBulls have a very bad reputation in society. Just imagine trying to sell your house and telling the prospective buyers that your next door neighbour has one or two Pitbulls. They are one of the most feared type of dog in modern society. Now a pitbull type has slaughtered a small child, someone's baby. What good is a having a dog that has to be confined for fear of it attacking an animal or human ? My opinion is this type of dog has no place in society. Do the dogs suffer because they have bad owners that don't know what to do ? Yes. Do we need these dogs ? No.

TD, the fact the society fears something doesn't mean that fear has any basis in fact. I wish folk could see that their belief is being manipulated by politicians and the media for their own agendas and for the most part with no real reason for that fear.

I get that people are worried about large powerful dogs and their potential to kill. I share that concern.

I wish folk would read past the headlines and hysteria and actually educate themselves about what makes a killer dog. The research is out there, the books are out there and the fact that most people with real knowledge of dogs and dog aggression don't support BSL should be telling you that something's smelly about the BSL solution.

Which part of "banning dogs breeds doesn't stop dog attacks" are people failing to grasp???

Genetics does play a big part in dog behaviour to. It is a dangerous myth that if you socialise and train a dog it will be 100% safe. Some dogs require constant management to keep them out of trouble.

If genetics weren't important then there would be no problem with breeding aggressive dogs, right?

Genetics IS important. But genes alone do not make a dangerous dog.

Most people on here seem to agree that the problem is at the other end of the leash - well then that's what should be targetted. Perhaps active and visible lobbying by owners/associations whose dogs are in the firing line, for increased penalties and jail terms for people whose dogs (of any size and description) inflict grevious bodily harm on others. Then it becomes an owner's issue rather than a breed issue. Perhaps breed reps were saying this today, but I didn't hear it.

Frankly I think all dog owners (not just owners of breeds at risk) have a vested interest in ensuring that irresponsible dog owners are penalised for their failure to socialise, train and contain their dogs. Its their actions that see ALL of us subject to increasing restrictions and dislike.

This is a really interesting thread thanks guys! I am currently trying to find the "perfect" breed for our household that will also be an agility star! I have always had and loved Dobermans, but we live in quite a small house with a small garden, and this will be my partner's first dog, and I'm not sure if I want to throw him in the deep end with a Doberdemon puppy! Looking at small/medium breeds, not so keen on terriers (personal preference) or typical small dog temperaments... I think my list so far is Iggies, Whippets and Miniature poodles...

Of those three (and I own two of them), I'd go the poodle - look at toys and miniatures.

Would induced vomiting help in a situation like this?

Provided you caught it fast enough, absolutely.

No point after it has been digested though.

The owner will no doubt be charged, but will he do time?

I can live with 3 to 5 for him. The fact that the dog was unregistered really peeves me off - it screams irresponsible.

An unregistered crossbred. Shall we go for undesexed as well?

There's two breaches of existing council by-laws. Why in hell do we need more legislation when there aren't sufficient resources to enforce what exists now.

Of course blaming the breed deflects that question and others very neatly.

Thanks for those links guys. It was milk chocolate, I even upped the amount I think he ate & the toxicity calculator came back as 'none'. I will keep an eye on him anyway obviously, thanks for those symptom tips.

I think it would probably be best for your dog's safety if you eat all the remaining chocolate in the house now.

Here's a chocolate toxicity calculator

What kind of chocolate was it? Dark is the worst.

Sadly many will never rad the book or educate themselves just go on beleiving what they see in the headlines.There are many factors that contribute to dog attacks breed being only one of them.

That was me before I bothered to educate myself on the issue. I wasn't as strongly anti as some but did believe the breed was inherently dangerous. I no longer believe it and share the heartbreak breed fanciers experience at seeing their dogs condemned.

Looks like the dog in this case wasn't a pitbull at all. Won't stop the hysteria though.

The thousands of dogs that were seized and killed in QLD starting in 2002(?)

These dogs were seized or forcibly surrendered simply on looks because the Qld government bowed to the hysteria to rid the state of the killer dogs.

There was no temperament testing no actual acts of aggression they were killed because they looked like pitbulls, baby puppies included. Some owners tried to save their dogs by sending them to safe states, some hid their dogs, some left the state with their dogs, but thousands were killed.

I don't know if the old BSL & EDBA threads are still available here on DOL, but there were many from that time.

And all on the basis of attacks that were largely NOT committed by APBTs.

Geeze people could afford to learn from history.

Give them money.

Don't make assumptions about what they might like and don't take from them the initiative on how they might like to be supported.

This is not a rich family. A cash injection would be the best method of support IMO.

Yes and one wonders if all John and Co's hard work is going to go down the drain after this incident.

Legislation in QLD has gotten a tad better and they have eased up on their witch hunt but what is to say this won't renew their witch hunt now. I hope not.

CEO RSPCA Qld is not an advocate for BSL.

Sadly the same cannot be said for CEO RSPCA Victoria.

As far as I'm aware and someone correct me If I'm wrong but there Is no recorded fatality In Australia by an APBT, how Is culling/exterminating the breed going to prevent this from happening again

I'm shuddering every time I think of that hotline and what It Is going to do Honestly what do they think It's going to achieve except for killing loved family pets.

I hate to say It but where Qld has left of Vic Is picking up, I would hate to be living there

ETA: Clarification

QLD saw the light in regards to this due to the actions of John Mokomoko and supporters, No others, some big noted on here in this site from a breed club but was insignificant in contribution. Blind freddy saw it but smugness was borne.

Personally I think you should look to the CEO of RSPCA Qld for a fair proportion of the paradigm shift.

I don't have an issue with the original list.

I would add Mini Schnauzers and Swedish Valhunds to the little dogs and English Springers to the mediums.

I hate to scaremonger but IMO SBT owners should be f***ing terrified.

Your dogs will be next for all the same reasons - bull breed with the capacity to attract the kind of owner that thinks a 'tough dog' will magically give them a longer penis.

And so many pig ignorant BYBs out there prepared to sell them one or crossbred them with anything that breathes.

If you have one with no papers.. be prepared.

the thought of this brings me to tears

I'll confess to feelings of despair that so many innocent dogs and loving owners will pay the price for the actions of the irresponsible.

And that fear and ignorance will rule the day.

Most Australians have never met a well socialised pitbull and are pushed to know more than a handful of breeds by sight. They have no direct experience in dog training, nor any direct experience with dog aggression. Their knowledge of dogs is limited to a few individuals and what they see on Australia's Funniest Home Videos (guaranteeed to make a dog trainer shudder) and the Dog Whisperer.

But their beliefs will prevail. And the folk arguing for "deed not breed" will be written off as a bunch of pitbull apologists. Meanwhile those with what they consider to be "safe" breeds will smugly consider the world to be a safer place. And they will be wrong.

Time to dust off the costumes folks.

What ever breed has status as the "tough dog", that's where the trouble will go.

I hate to scaremonger but IMO SBT owners should be f***ing terrified.

Your dogs will be next for all the same reasons - bull breed with the capacity to attract the kind of owner that thinks a 'tough dog' will magically give them a longer penis.

And so many pig ignorant BYBs out there prepared to sell them one or crossbred them with anything that breathes.

If you have one with no papers.. be prepared.

FHRP has been asked before if her Hungarian Vizslas are pitbulls.

Cos they're red and all....

God help us.

But how do you even implement a ban on all Pitbull Crosses? Who decides which dog is a Pitbull cross and which is a Staffy or Amstaff cross? Or a Cane Corso cross?

You can't it is beyond impossible. Ridiculous.

Simple. Round up anything with a big head, smooth coat and weighing over 18kg that isn't ANKC registered and kill the lot. Anything red or brindle will be first in line.

And don't think it can't happen.

Out of interest, because we are talking about Australia here, are there any Australian statistics re: dog attacks in non-BSL states/territories) (I believe NT, WA and ACT) vs BSL states and also what has been the effect on dog attacks in BSL states since the introduction of BSL ie pre- and post- statistics.

I would be interested to know if anyone has ever done a comparison.

This is not to take away from the horror of the attack and what that poor family is going through, my thoughts are with them today.

I cannot recall any attacks on people by APBTs in the ACT.

Given that apparently they'll attack anything, I have no idea how this is the case. ;)