poodlefan

....I could lend you one , but she's a bit naughty :D Both your girls handle beautifully. I can offer a Whippet that is lovely to handle if he's not screaming for his mum. There's usually a few Beagles or Whippets looking for handlers.

Yes, for a select few dogs.

I suggest you at least consider installing a dog door. Allowing the dog to toilet inside will undo the training she's had already. Dogs need fresh air and sunshine - especially growing ones. How about a temporary fence around a small part of the back door. I'd honestly suggest you lower you gate to fix this though.

Me too. I'd really like a kangaroo plaited martingale

These divergences have already occurred, Goldens are one breed where they are notable. I suppose we just have to find a point where we stop and say "this is as far as we will go from what this dog was bred for". Too far already, IMHO. There is nothing wrong with the working GR as a pet in a family home. There is an interesting article online Aidan about breeding for less high activity "pets" in the Golden Retriever in North America and the decrease in bite inhibition that appears to be happening as a result. Sometimes you don't know what attributes are linked until you remove one. Personally I'd rather see levels of bite inhibition tested in Retrieving Trials than on kids. Interesting also that among working GR folk, the darker colour is generally associated with working ability. You don't see many pale cream dogs in the field.

I'd have thought white would be a good thing to have on a dog in the more challenging UK weather.

In the case of dilutes, it can.

Australia is the only country that restricts border collie colours and the markings you see in the show ring are purely fashion. BCs have to have some white on them but the patern is not important. Everywhere else in the world they can be any colour and most other countries also accept short coats. That fact that the standard doesn't say "any colour or colours acceptable" suggests that colour has some role to play. I'm guessing visibility while working is part of that equation?

You seem to be making an exception for colour. I don't. My Whippet will never course hares. Colour is not an issue in his breed but I don't think I should be disinterested in his gait, his topline, his dentition and his soundness because he'll never fulfill his original function.

You're the one who said you didn't give a toss about the hunting side of things Moselle. In some breeds such traits include colour. The fact that you don't think a breeds' original purpose matters doesn't mean that's the case. I can absolutely guarantee in the case of the SBT that colour didn't matter much at all. To see breeders now breeding for it runs contrary to the original purpose and intent of the breed and the breed is suffering as a result. Did you never consider that GRs and Border Collies are the colours they are for a reason?

You are kidding right? So you want people to breed yet another breed with no intended purpose (therefore a money making designer dog) other than it's coat colour? How is that any different to what you are accusing us of now doing? The people who own the breed know why the breed is it's colour and are attracted to that, not the other extremely rare colours. Ours is a breed that is used as its original purpose. How many breed features do you consider unnecessary toss out before the predictability of what you're breeding goes out the window. At what stage does the dog stop being any kind of example of its supposed breed?

So we toss out the coat type, the mouth shape, the temperament and any other feature important to duck hunting because its illegal in some States? Get real Moselle. If you don't care about original function why bother with breeds at all. Or is that the point you're trying to make? NO WAY...me said nothing about tossing out mouth shape, temperament or other important feature...just coat colour and only because in my case I don't give two flying fruits about the hunting part of things. I own a border collie and a golden retriever, I obtained them because I love the breed....I never had intentions to use my border collie to herd sheep or my GR to chase after shot ducks! AND you know what? I really don't think they miss not having done any of that. Their tail never ceases to wag. You loved the breed. So you loved what had been developed and refined by HUNTERS over generations but you don't give a toss about all that now. We can forget about what they found important in a hunting dog. OK, so that soft mouth and high bite inhibition so important in a dog that retrieves game. That's not necessary anymore. We can lose that. The GR's lovely soft mouth and nature won't be needed by families with kids - they'll just have to take their chances. These dogs won't be spending all day in the field with strange dogs - so lack of aggression isn't such an issue. We can take our chances with that too. The biddability and trainability in a dog bred to work all day beside and under the direction of the hunter. We don't need that anymore. Intelligence? The dogs don't need to work out how to get to game, how to find it and bring it back. So we can have dumber dogs now. So those who seek the breed out for obedience training or because they enjoy an intelligent dog can take their chances too. That lovely wavey coat that sheds dirt and water? The dog's don't retrieve any ducks now so we can have them with 'incorrect coat'. Fluffy dogs with hard to manage coats will be just fine. You know Moselle, the more I read of your posts the more I can only conclude that you have no genuine understanding of the purpose of setting and adhering to a breed standard. Sadly there are plenty of breeders who feel as you do and the degeneration of breed features and temperament shows that they don't give a toss about the features that actually made breeds what they are.

Clearly a considerable number of blue SBT breeders aren't losing any sleep over the issue.

So we toss out the coat type, the mouth shape, the temperament, the trainability and any other feature important to duck hunting because its illegal in some States? Get real Moselle. If you don't care about original function why bother with breeds at all. Or is that the point you're trying to make?

I'd like to think that the views of the people who developed a breed and defined its standards are not irrelevant. In some breeds, colour matters. In others it may be linked to highly undesireable genetic traits. A breed standard should not change to reflect the whims of the current generation of breeders. Next you'll be telling us that breed function shouldn't matter because so many breeds no longer perform their original function.

I gather inclusion of the LHW's in the breeding pool has assisted with that? pardon my dumbness, what is LHW's? Sorry. Longhaired Weimaraner

Agreed, but I was referring to a typical human's hangup about it. I think it is rarely dominance and rarely sexual behaviour, but frequently displacement behaviour. We don't think it rude if a dog tongue flicks and looks away from us. I think its dominance far more often than some owners might care to consider. But once again,we control and deter a lot of dog behaviour - humping is just another one to add to the list.

I gather inclusion of the LHW's in the breeding pool has assisted with that?

Weims do suffer from coat and skin issues, many relating to thyroid disorders. Perhaps you've never seen a dog with the issue left untreated.

You didn't.. I was continuing on from the point I quoted about there supposedly being a lot of second rate dogs in the show ring.

Yes it does. It doesn't make it right. My guess is that a total unknown exhibitor with that dog would never have titled it. :D: It still wouldn't see me encouraging someone with a dog with that issue to show it, ESPECIALLY in a highly competitive breed. I'd sure as hell not breed from it.

That's fantastic news! I'm so pleased for Charlie.

or even a CH title from whats been seen in the past wasnt that why the "petrol Ch" saying came about? Only the most heartless of exhibitors/breeders would encourage someone to show a dog with severe conformation faults, that lacked type or had an obvious disqualifying fault. There is nothing more demoralising to a new exhibitor than to show a dog that does nothing but lose. In thie case of this breed, the chances of there being little or no competition at shows is negligible. They are the most popular of exhibits in Group 2 and I don't see that changing any time soon. Its not fun or a great learning experience to show a second rate dog. Yes, opinions vary but some faults would be agreed by all ringside as relegating a dog to that category. A championship is not guaranteed no matter how far you travel. Dogs get refused all the time. Sure you can escape the big competition but some breeds are at pretty much every show.

Conformation - will help keep a dog sound Confidence/resilience - a pup that bounces back from being startled is a good indicator People focus Drive As you have access to the whole litter, I'd suggest Volhard Puppy Testing them at 7 weeks. That's basically a test of social confidence. The results may help you select the right pup.

I'll buy buying all my CC products from them in future. You won't beat those prices in Australia.