Staffyluv

It isn't so much that it is about bull breeds - we all know there are dangerous dogs out there and unfortunately a large proportion seem to be bull breeds (owned by idiots).. I think Mantis's point is more the fact that if your read back over DMs posts - it seems to be that the majority of her threads are about some bull breed or other and all the bad they do. Never has she posted about other breeds and deeds - just bull breeds. No offence intended DM - it is just how I read your stuff and I dare say a lot of other do as well. It appears obvious that you don't like them and that is fine (no one said you had to.

Wow! So a few months ago some one had a couple of pups, now those pups would only be what 6 months old (they really are not that big at 6 months). They needed surgery from intervening between a couple of 6 month old pups? So they euthed a pup?? Again wow! Zig was 6 months old when I got him from the pound - there is no way he could have caused me damage enough to warrant surgery. Pups usually respond to a good yell and they let go quick smart. I think your friend is telling porky pies :) (just my opinion of course, with the little bit of experience I have with bull breeds). But you get no argument from me about BYBing of ANY breed..

The vet asked me today to cut out most of his foods and take him back to chicken and rice with just a bit of kibble. He said to remove bones and red meat. Not sure why? I thought that a good diet would be paramount treating a dog when their energy levels drop so much after such episodes??? Zig normally has breaky and dinner each day (which the vet said is good - a couple of meals a day). Breaky is usually one of: turkey neck, chook wing, a few chook necks, a few lamb ribs or some kibble with either cottage cheese or sardines. Dinner is usually red meat with some kibble. All meat and bones are raw. We use RC for large breed because he is over 25kg.. He likes it and has been on it for a while now. At Sunday training he gets no breakfast before we go and I use homebrand devon and cheese (OMG that devon is horrible but he loves it). Then he gets his usual dinner. He often gets bits of my fruit during the day or yoghurt and is happy to chew on a carrot. But now he is back to chicken and rice for a few days. He doesn't seem to like it but he isn't fond of cooked meat or rice.

Thanks for all the suggestions and good wishes everyone. Anne that is exactly what the vet said. Zig's bad episode last week - he was really hyper, his heart rate was really fast, his gums were white and he was 'frantic'. We all thought it was some sort of poisoning but as it happened again last night, it is doubtful that it was. Zig seems to be starving tonight - he has bought me his kong (which I usually fill with kibble and cottage cheese, if I go out) and his treat ball. He keeps drinking water tonight and has checked his food bowl constantly. I gave him some fish about 3pm as he seemed really hungry then, so I just did his kong for him and will leave it at that tonight. JaneH, I do believe the thyroid levels are being tested as well as liver, kidney and pancreatic stuff is being looked at as well. From memory today Hamish asked for FBC and thyroid and pancreatic levels when he spoke to the nurse.

Thanks all, I am really hoping it isn't seizures. The vet is doing a full blood count, checking liver enzymes, kidney function and looking for anything out of the ordinary. The main thing that led him to think seizure is that he has had 2 'episodes' the same (although last night was no where near as bad as last week) in the space of a couple of weeks. Last nights was the same as a couple of other times, where I just thought he was feeling sick (eating grass).. But it is like he doesn't even know I am there when he is eating the grass. It always happens after he has been sleeping - he wakes up, throws his head back and licks the air a bit (like he is going to be sick), then runs outside and eats and eats grass. But he is never sick after doing it. The next day he is pretty exhausted and he tends to sleep all day. I am keen to get the results of his blood work.

Zig had another 'event' last night but I managed to calm him here at home and took him to the vets first thing this morning. The vet thinks it could be seizures but we need to rule out everything else first. I can see why they thought poisoning last week as it is the only thing that seemed to fit - eat grass, shaking, white gums, frantic behaviour, elevated heart rate.. Full blood work is being done and I get the results tomorrow after lunch - but the vet said often these come back normal. I am going to try to remember to video his behaviour next time it happens. Last night was the fourth time he has become 'frantic' and eating grass like there is no tomorrow, shaky and but last Thursday was by far the worst he had ever been. I turned the TV off and just sat here with him on the lounge in the dark with just the laptop on, being as quiet as possible. He seemed to settle after about 5 minutes or so. We went for a quiet walk this morning and then to the vets and he is sleeping now. He did the same thing last week, he slept all day Friday after the events of Thursday night.

Each to their own but have you seen them? They look like plastic. I prefer to feed raw meaty bones for dental health. It has worked for the last few dogs, so I am sticking with it. My old 14 and a half year old stafford had awesome teeth. He never needed them cleaned or scaled at the vets and he ate bones. The only issue I ever had was the old boy had to have a back tooth removed due to him cracking it on a marrow bone. I no longer feed weight bearing bones of larger animals. We tend to stick to ribs, necks, wings, drumsticks, brisket bones.

Thanks SnT. Zig is a much more sensitive soul than Ollie was. Ol used to just go with the flow but he also had lots of time at the vets (even though he had the run of the back room or the yard to keep him happy). Zig doesn't seem to cope with change well. I will give him some more time and hopefully he will just come back to the way he was before.

corie it happened last Thursday night and he was home last Friday. He seems to have made a full recovery with only one tummy upset since getting him back onto raw meat/bones with a bit of kibble added in. I did as the vet asked and gave him some chicken and rice for a couple of days and just added a bit more raw and took a bit of the chicken and rice away each day. He sleeps on my bed. He will sleep in his crate or on his mat if I ask him to but I like him on the bed (he has a blanket on my bed that he sleeps on. He will stay with my son and he stayed with my sons girlfriend the other night when I had to duck out but they both say that he won't do anything while I am gone, he just lays there (which isn't a bad thing). I can ask him to stay in a room and until last week when he was sick, he would stay until I came back to get him - now he stays a few seconds and then comes looking for me. He doesn't over react when I get home, whining or anything but he is by my side the whole time I am here. I work from home as well and he is in the office with me when clients are not there. I have quite a few trades people as clients and they bring their dogs and he gets to have a play sometimes. He seems happy enough in himself, he is just very clingy. Maybe the whole being sick thing and being away from me was a bit much and he will settle - it has only been a week.

Hi guys and gals - I thought I would ask this in here instead of starting a new thread. Zig ate something he shouldn't have (still don't know what it was) and it nearly cost him his life a week ago. He stayed at the emergency vet and they treated him overnight and I got to go pick him up because of how distressed he was the next day. He was initially anesthetized for treatment and when he woke up he got so upset that they sedated him. Then when he woke up again he was really distressed again, so they called me to come and get him as they thought he was out of danger and it would be better for him. Since he came home, he is overly clingy. If I get up from the lounge, so does he. Even if I move to go to the bathroom he follows me. He sits at the bathroom door until I have had my shower every night. If I have to go out, he sits at the gate, rain, hail or shine, until I get back - my son tried to get him to come in the other day as it was raining and he wouldn't. He doesn't make a fuss about it here at home but he is stuck to me. I don't really care, I love having him around and don't go out that much any way (unless he comes with) but if he ever needs to go to the vets overnight or god forbid a kennel - I am not sure how he or they will cope. I think he feels safe here at home, so he isn't making the fuss he made at the vets. The vet said she sedated him because she was concerned that he was going to hurt himself in the crate. He is crate trained here at home and is more than happy to go into his crate if I have it inside for whatever reason. Any ideas on how to resolve this attachment thing he seems to have going on?

I have always fed dogs whole eggs, shell and all.. Zig thinks all his Christmas's have come at once when I open the egg carton.

Poor boy, I wish you both well. Just a heads up on the chemo, fluid in his tummy and slowing down - the same thing happened with Ollie and it was his thyroid - the chemo had effectively stopped it working altogether. He ended up on thyroxine for the rest of his life - not a hassle when I consider that the chemo had him in remission for as long as it did. Have they checked his thyroid function when they do his full blood counts? Ollie was also on an anti cancer diet or no sugars, grains etc. But on days when he would not eat, we used to give him a couple of milk arrowroot biscuits in a little warmed milk - it is sweet and creamy and tempted him to have something in his tummy those few times when it was really empty. He would just lap them up (they go pretty soggy).

No advice or experience with Satch's problem but just wanted to wish you both lots of luck.. Glad to hear he is doing well and hope it continues.

Great news - now stop reading up on stuff.. I did the same thing and it can do your head in.. It takes a bit but you do get to the stage of just accepting they are getting lumpier and you love them and count your blessings each day they stay with you..

No issues with Zig either - he is an all in kinda guy. He even goes swimming in the pond in minus temps if I let him. The more water the better Zig wet dog 2 by Jodie Moore Photos, on Flickr

Your OH is a classic example of what is buying up all the BYB bully breeds - they honestly have no idea what breeds are in the dog or how they will turn out, let alone how to feed, train and socialise them. It breaks my heart - having kept them most of my adult life and when we were kids growing up with a few and seeing what has become of them.. I wish we could fine those BYBers for constantly flooding the market with dogs. I wish there was a way to stop BYBing all together and let those in the know, who breed for sound temperament, good health and form do what they do best. I have a BYB boy here at the moment, we train and socialise all the time. He has come miles since I got him at 6 months old but it is an ongoing thing. So many take them to basic obedience and then stop. We had 2 six month old stafford pups at obedience last term and they didn't come back this time. At the end of last term I heard the kid talking about not coming back and I tried to chat about the importance of socialising and training such strong breeds. He said his dad didn't have the time (1 hour on a Sunday morning).

So very true - only last week some moron was on a local buy swap sell with a picture of what looked like a very oversized 'blue' amstaff and requesting help to find a blue nosed pit bull... As for pounds getting so many BYB bull breeds in - I have my own theory on this and I think that so many people see them, think they will be good guard dogs and great with the kids etc because Tommo's best mates uncle had one that was rooly great. Then they get the pup home, it is all cute and they laugh and giggle when it pulls little Mary's clothes but when said pup is about 9 months old (often less), it has more than doubled in size, has had NO training, digging the yard up, chewing everything it gets its mouth around and is now pulling little Mary over - it is time to get rid of it and try again. There is an endless market for free or cheap BYB bull breeds out there. Lots can't or refuse to pay what purebred dog breeders are asking for, so when the neighbours dog has a litter and they get $500 a pup for them - there are those that just see the $$ signs and I can get that if I get one of the pups and breed it later. So many people don't even think to research their breed of choice before buying it and when they get it, it is nothing like Tommo's best mates uncles dog (who just happens to be a really nice purebred and has a sound temperament etc).. It is so sad that there is so little education regarding the ownership of pets (all pets) but especially the pets that I love and adore, the bull breeds.. They really don't suit so many lifestyles.

Unfortunately, I think the Finnish KC is unique in keeping stats on cause and age of death and making them public. I wish other KC's did this. There is no way to know how representative (or not) the Finnish data are. One interesting thing in the Finnish data. If you click on the highlighted entry for cause of death you get a tabulation of all test and show results for the dogs listed. Several of the dogs who were pts due to behaviour had bad hip scores (C/C or worse). So pain-related biting, or going for euth because the dog was not suitable for breeding, may be part of the picture. Did you see my link - it is the stats for all councils across NSW that had reported attacks.. Here is the link for the home page Link

Bahahaha, that is nearly as bad as the Queanboss boys (yep that is what they call themselves).. They have a whole heap of you tube clips of them being their little bogan selves. I just went looking for a link for you but it appears that they have all gone.. Bummer. On the main topic, if it is an off lead area and you don't have control or your dogs don't recall, don't take them there and let them off. The other guy shouldn't have attacked the man over it though..

Do you have Australian stats by chance? or know where we can get them? I have grown up and lived with bull breeds for years - in all that time, being associated (parents, brothers, sisters and my dogs) with more than 10 dogs, we had one that had issues with aggression - he was euthanised at 18 months old after trying training, desexing etc and nothing worked. I am all for punishing the deed not the breed (and the owners of dogs that do the deed).. Bigger fines and sentences for those who keep offending dogs. Study the dogs to see if it is the way they live and were raised or is there a genetic link that makes some dogs so much more aggressive than others. How will we ever find a solution when we are all so divided over the issue? This has turned into a bull breed bashing foray.. There are some who take every opportunity to sink the boot in - look another bull breed in the news. My heart sinks every time a bull breed (pit, staff, amstaff etc) is named and then a week later it is reviewed to a different breed/type. But that doesn't make the news and the damage is already done, the reputation of my beloved breeds sinks a little further. I am not denying there is a problem and I don't have the answers to fix it. But I do think it is more complex than killing everything that doesn't have ANKC papers. Not every bull breed dog is dangerous but sadly the ones that are seem to make it into the hands of the morons in society who use them as a extension of their manhood to make them feel better about themselves. Edited to add link to NSW stats..Link

Ollie had a round cell sarcoma on his toe and they removed his toe when he was 10 years old - it took him a little while to recover but he was fine and that was the end of it. We were lucky with this one, taking the toe fixed it. Ollie also had 6 months of chemo for mast cell cancer - the side effects were that his thyroid stopped working and he needed thyroxine for the rest of his life. He also had a reflux problem and that was handled with meds and mylanta. They cannot and do not give dogs the doses they give humans with chemotherapy treatment. Bone marrow transplants are relatively new in the animal world and very expensive. With humans they give massive doses compared to what they give animals. If Ollie had not had chemo, he wouldn't have lived an extra 6 years - his prognosis without was 12 months max and with it was 12-18 months maybe 2 years. He was also holistically treated. Chemo doesn't do to dogs what it does to people - they don't get sick, they may get a bit flat a couple of days after the treatment (I think this happened with Ollie maybe 4 times and had chemo 3 weeks out of 4 each month for 6 months). They don't lose hair - but where they shave them for the canula, it might take longer to grow back than if they were not being treated. I know it is a lot to take in but research, research and then research some more - you will be surprised what is out there for treatments. Good luck and if you check out the palliative care section in health and start a thread for you both, I am sure you will get loads of advice and support.

This big boy comes to work with me every day - lucky he isn't aggressive :) Office worker boy 2.2013 by Jodie Moore Photos, on Flickr

It isn't just breeds they have problems with it is ages as well. When we found Zig, they said he was a 12 month old staffy cross. After having a look at him, his testicles were not there and his canines were still not fully grown. I suggested that he was only about 6 months old and was told that they had been doing this for a while. Upon taking him to my vet for desexing, even the vet agreed that he would be probably be between 6-7 months old tops.. I know once a dog has a full set of teeth and appear to be fully developed it is harder to tell but surely anyone can see when canines are not fully there or testicles are missing, when they should be there..

Thanks Wobbly, he is a character - I have to give him that and he keeps me on my toes.. He is bit better today than he was yesterday, so I gave him a little kibble as well as a small amount of cooked chicken mince. He is none to fussed on the cooked chicken - so my son gave him a bit of raw chook and he ate that. To me, him eating tells me that he must be feeling better. I don't know if I will take him to training or not tomorrow - I guess I will just see how he goes between now and then.

Everything crossed for Tess that it is nothing at all.. Ollie had that many lumps over the years and after having so many removed and tested, I got to the stage where it was simply - don't worry until I know there is something to worry about. Good luck