Staffyluv

And you can predict the future perfectly because you see an unleashed dog 'walking calmly' by the owner's side? I remain totally amazed at what predictions people can make.... that not even God can make. The cattle dog which attacked my shelties was 'calmly walking by its owner's side'.... who had the lead taken off & hanging over her arm. Then.... just as God knows can happen, but you don't.... the situation immediately changed when it saw my 2 shelties on the other side of the road. Came like a rocket at them. I finished up flattened on the ground trying to save my shelties from the snapping bites, cattle dog ignoring owner's orders. Total chaos until 2 blokes in a passing truck came to help. This IS what this thread IS about. Dogs not on lead in real-life situations that are not predictable for dogs owners out walking their leashed dogs.. All situations are not predictable. Which is why councils usually have a by-law.... dogs out in public places must be leashed. Called prevention of problems. Only ego-centric people choose to ignore. Again..... what bubble floats above the heads of your 'good owners with well trained (unleashed) dogs' to tell other dog owners that they're approaching? Frankly, only observable thing, is that an ego-centric person is approaching who believes they don't have to obey a simple by-law. Not exactly a great reference for their sense of responsibility. As I said, in areas without these by-laws, it's Russian roulette. Which is why I don't go there. Now you are just being facetious.. I said 'I' don't care about a dog walking calmly by its owners side and if you had bothered to even read the rest of the sentence before going off on my posts yet again, you would realise that I also said that I would cross a road if the dog was out in front of the owner - nothing about predicting the future or anything like your rant goes on about.. No bubble floats above the head of 'my good owners'.. If they know they have a bomb proof dog that will do no harm, then again - I don't see the issue. If you have an issue while out walking your dogs with someone who is walking along with their dog, minding their own business (the dog not doing anything to anyone at all), then by all means keep the council number in your mobile phone and call them and report it - it really is ALL you can do! Nowhere did I state that problems don't happen with off lead dogs - you are reading a lot more into my posts than I am intending. Again, I said I would cross a road if I thought there was a threat. My posts, which you don't seem to acknowledge or understand, are about me, my experiences and my opinion - they are not the be all and end all of what you should or shouldn't do with YOUR dog, in YOUR town (which I know nothing about).. I have my opinion and you have yours as to what is acceptable when I am walking my dog, in the areas that I know - I don't care if you don't agree with me Mita, I am as much entitled to my opinion as you are.

And those unleashed dogs & their owners are strangers to other dogs & owners approaching. There's no bubble floating in the air with the voice of God coming out, saying.... 'This is a totally bomb proof dog that stays by the owner's side, no matter what.'. But even God knows that the one thing which is predictable about the future, is that it is unpredictable. I don't mean to be rude. But people with this attitude believe that what goes on their own heads rules the world. It even has a name, ego-centricity. A dog owner with leashed dog, who see another person & dog approaching ... bleedingly obvious not on a lead. And made rightly cautious by previous bad experiences .... has a normal stress response, as body goes into alert for fight or flight. So a problem exists . First rule of problem solving.... who has the means to prevent or solve it? Answer, in this case, the person who only has to snap on a lead, when out in public with their dog. And pssssh! to stuff about dogs still being able to lunge. It wasn't a lunging dog on a lead that gave such horrific experiences to those of us whose dogs have been attacked when being walked in public places. Shouldn't even be debatable as it tends to be a council by-law in most areas. In areas where it isn't a council by-law, then it becomes a case of Russian roulette to walk your dog. And it's up to individual dog owners to calculate risk. For me, it's a no go.... far too likely to meet some with an ego-centric view on containing their dog in a public place. Again, I am not disagreeing with you but what so many in this thread fail to realise is that there will never be a safe place to walk their dogs because not everyone respects the law or is morally obliged to do the right thing. You have to accept that you can neither prevent nor solve people who let their dogs run amok - they don't care what you think or want.. I don't understand the issue with walking past an off lead dog that is well trained and doesn't approach your dog - why is that a problem? It isn't doing anything to you or your dog - in fact a dog that well trained is probably so interested in its owner that it doesn't even see you and your dog.. Just because you have an issues with something, doesn't mean it is a problem.. I have issues with off lead dogs as much as the next person - but I really couldn't care less about a dog off lead that is walking calmly by its owners side minding their own business. If the dog is way out in front of the owner, I tend to go in the opposite direction or cross the road - I don't trust them any more than the next person. AGAIN, this thread is about off lead dogs that are not like this - it is about being afraid of off lead dogs that do run up to you and your dog (friendly or not).. It isn't about good dog owners, with well trained dogs that do no-one any harm at all.

Aussie is right - this thread is going around in circles. Totally bomb proof dogs are out there, they stay by the side of their owners no matter what.. I would rather walk by one of these dogs than one that is a complete lunatic on leash.. I know what it is like to have a reactive dog on lead - it has taken months and months of work to get him to the stage where he can walk around the park, without reacting to every dog he sees.. He is happy reactive, he wants to see the other dogs and is submissive as well but at 27kg of bull breed, he could be a nightmare on lead if he wanted to. Lucky for me, with loads of great advice, training and persistence, I can now walk him without these problems. I am very lucky, some people never get the resolution I have with Ziggy. A lot of reactive dogs are not submissive or friendly - they simply don't like other dogs in their space and as dog owners, we have to respect each other and what we all want for our dogs. There are many people who live with dogs like this every single day - they want to walk them in a on leash area, without the threat of unknown dogs coming at them. If your dog is totally bomb proof, personally I have no issue with you walking it off lead. But if you or your dogs attention lapses, I am sure you will understand when I kick your dog away, that I have spent so much time and energy 'fixing' my dogs issues and I don't want them undone. As for the off lead thing being illegal, well realistically there are loads of people doing stuff that isn't legal or moral every day - in the grand scheme of life on earth an off lead dog (in control) is hardly an issue.. The off lead dogs that are aggressive are a different issue and that is the OPs original gripe (not off lead dogs that are in total control).. There is plenty we can do but if a dog is intent on attacking your dog and it outweighs you, then you are in trouble. The same goes for dogs in packs - if they decide to attack, you are in trouble. Find areas that you can walk with a good view all around. Go at different times to find the best time with the fewest irresponsible owners and loose dogs. Drive to the places, so you car is only ever a few minutes walk away from where you are. Check out houses around the area and know the ones that have dogs - if you need sanctuary against offending dogs, knowing what yards you can enter on your walk helps heaps. Carry an umbrella with a pointed end, if opening it in the face of a dog doesn't deter them, then sure are sh*t the pointed end will do some damage in a scuffle. Lastly, there will always be irresponsible people - there is nothing we can do about others (other than report them at every opportunity) but we can look out for ourselves. For the next person to tell they shouldn't have to watch out for roaming dogs, guess what - you should and you do have to.. There will always be others who don't care what you want, they don't care about the laws.. Respect and manners are long gone in today's society. So for you and your dogs to take the safest walk, take some or all of so many great suggestions posted in 32 pages and give it a shot.. You may have to go a town or suburb over to find a nice place to walk, where it is peaceful enough for you to enjoy your walk.

SM, I realise you weren't having a go and I totally agree with you - we should be able to do a lot of things without fear but that isn't the world we live in anymore. As kids we could play in the streets and our parents were never worried about us being taken or worse.. Trudy08, sometimes we don't have time to see dogs coming at us - the reason I choose to walk in our local park. I wouldn't walk my dog(s) around the local streets of town because any dog can come out of any driveway and the chance that they are on me before I can do anything about it, is diminished. Again, back to the choices we make with our dogs. I walk in places I know that I will have a good view around me. In places where I know I have options if a dog comes at me.. These are the choices I make to walk my dog and feel safe. My whole point has been simply that we can only do what we can do - we cannot control everything in our lives, including someone else and their dogs. So we have to make allowances as dog owners and do what is in the best interest of ourselves and our own dogs. Find a better place to walk, a place where you have better vision of what could come at you, stick to know on leash areas (you will still come across unleashed dogs but it won't be as many). Work out the times that are best suited to walking a dog around your neighbourhood if you can only walk them in the streets around your home. Personally, I prefer to drive to our local park - it is safer there due to vision and it is on lead. Sure we get the odd offleash dogs but in the grand scheme of the amount of dogs we see at the park, I would think 90% would do the right thing.

One kick and most dogs would take off I agree but what about the greyhound that was killed here last month? That dog was being kicked by several people and it didn't even flinch. As I said earlier in this thread the only thing that made that dog run was being smashed with a fire extinguisher and even then it took a while for it to give up, by that time the greyhound was dead on the road in front of it's distraught owner. I am one of those that is not happy for a dog to say hello, I like Kirty do not want dogs approaching mine and I have TWO dogs to defend. I don't want to have to lift any dog off mine, I don't want to have to assess a situation I just want to take them for a bloody walk! SM any incident like that is beyond horrible but in reality, it is the rarity as well (thankfully).. You are totally within your rights not to want other dogs to say hi to your dogs - they are your dogs and you can decide that. Unfortunately not everyone in the community will respect that - it is the times we live in. All I can suggest is report the owners and dogs if they keep going and you have asked them not to come close. No one wants to do these things but again, we live in a world that has very little respect for other humans - what do they care about someone else's dog.. Report people, search for places you do feel more comfortable walking your dog are all the suggestions I have because in the long run, we can only control OUR dogs and what we do - we have no control over other people and what they do with their dogs. Most and I did try to stress MOST dogs, would go with a growly get away and a step towards them.. If that fails then a kick would send the majority of dogs on their way. The dog that attacks and won't stop really is rare when you consider the amount of dogs we have in our community. All we can do, as responsible dog owners is report these dogs.. Personally I would throw my dog up on a car or over a fence (probably not the best idea either) if I thought it would save it from an attacking dog.

Personally, if a dog approaches my dog in public, I assess the situation. If the approaching dog looks like it is going to be troublesome, then I would try to shoo it away. If that failed a good swift kick would probably be all that was needed to move it on. Most (MOST) dogs, don't want a confrontation with a human.. If the approaching dog appeared friendly, I am happy for it to say hello and then go on our way (I realise not everyone is happy for a strange dog to say hi to theirs, so see above suggestion, shoo it away with a growly get lost).. If the dog went to attack my dog, I would do whatever it took to protect my dog.. To be honest, I think one kick and most dogs would take off. I will protect my dog because it is my expectation of myself, as his owner to do so.. It is also surprising what you can do, when you are protecting your dog - I lifted a year old GSD off Ziggy at training one day because she pinned him.. I know I lifted her off by the scruff of her neck and rump fur but I honestly don't recall that she was heavy or it was hard to do - I just did it.

My boy loves his tennis ball - he sees it and plants his rear end on the ground.. It is a very conditioned response - until he knows what we are doing, his butt stays down.. We use a tennis ball to train - any one will do but the ultimate reward ball is the squeaky kong tennis ball.. I agree with Melza - all meetings should be on lead, sitting.. Some family and friends make it hard with our training.

I have the same here as the OP.. The female foster girl is a real snuggle bum. My boy Zig, not so much but he isn't so independent that he likes to be on his own. He has no separation issues but likes to know where you are.. He isn't a real cuddle bug, if you cuddle him in tight, he will often move away from this but let him lay on you with just one hand on him and he will stay there all day. I prefer male dogs to female dogs.

Just sharing so every one can see the boy came third and it was recommended that he go up to novice.. And our little foster angel came first in her beginners class. Zig third and Zip first 15.9.2013 by jamoore photos, on Flickr

Thanks Nic I am going to tell myself that today. I just had him out for a big run and then we run through everything he was supposed to do.. It is still the drop and stand - the drop, it is like he is just defiant and not doing it. Whereas the stand, he looks confused, like he has forgotten it. I am not going to stress about it - we have done enough to prepare for today, so hopefully it will all just go off without a hitch.

Most foster carers will tell you that it takes at the very least 3 weeks for a foster dog to start to settle into a new home. Give him time, reduce his food, give him plenty of exercise and get his coat groomed - all good advice given previously. Also humanising him will only cause you and him more issues - he is a dog, they don't think or act like we do.

I am sorry Nic, I didn't see your offer to help. We have done some work over the last few days - some things seem OK and others not so good. I dare say we will be going back to redo the advanced class but that is OK - we both enjoy. Just means Rally-O will be on hold for another term. Today he seems particularly good, inside at home.. His heel work is nice and smooth, his drops fine, his stand is still iffy and his stays here at home are fine. His 'finish' after recall is sometimes very good and instant and other times he looks at me like he doesn't know what I want. We don't have to do this, it isn't assessed but I dare say a nice finish back at heel will be a tad more impressive than me walking around him. I think Zipp will do well and pass with flying colours (I shouldn't jinx myself, should I).. I have put loads of work into Zig and pass or not, to me he is simply amazing.

I don't go to my vet because he is the cheapest around - I go there because the staff and the vets seem to care for the animals. They are certainly not the cheapest vet in town but they are also not the most expensive either. I don't care what he charges me - he is in business, has staff and premises.. I assume (because I deal with small to medium business everyday) he charges what he charges to cover his overheads and make a profit.. After all, that is why we go into business - to make a profit.. It is a bonus if we love what we do. Consumers have always been able to vote with their feet - if you don't like what a vet charges, find another..

I just booked today for a one on one with Steve for Zig and I and I am so excited (and nervous).. Our session is mid November.. Will he ever come to Canberra Huski? I know a few people that would be interested and I mentioned it at our obedience club and all the trainers said they would go to a workshop if he had one here. Just something else to think about :)

HD was it windy when Jake was distracted - Zig can be overly distracted when it is windy.. I find windy days are the days that I have less focus. Glad to hear he is making such great progress - they really are a work in progress aren't they. Yeah, he is still very much a puppy (even at 2 years old).. I don't think my old SBT acted mature, even at 14 - he just slowed down.. We don't get so many pit bill comments anymore - because we only really go places where they know us. Same dog park with same dog and human crew, obedience training and the same local on leash park, that I have been going to for over 14 years (used to take the old boy there).. I love our local on leash park - it has a pond big enough for Zig to stand in and the water comes up to his chin. After obedience training or an off lead run at the dog park, I always bring them back here (when it is hot) for a dunk in the pond..

Good point.

A trampoline bed is a good idea as it is already up and they seem to find it easier to rise and step off. If it is arthritis, maybe cartrophen injections may help, talk to your vet. Or some other treatments and supplements. You could use a towel under his tummy (you holding both ends) and help him up. As you said, adding mats all over the place, so he is more inclined to lay on them and that way he has something for traction to get up. With my 14 year old Stafford, I found the tramp bed the best and he had a couple. One in the lounge room (although most of the time he preferred to snooze on the lounge because he could slide onto it and off it again, without stressing his joints and he had one in the backyard to lay in the sun.

We'll done HD and Jake.. Zig gets things really quickly. He picked up the stand command in just a couple of goes. My biggest thing has been getting his focus to stay on me, when there is so much distraction around. We separated him and one of his dog buddies because every time we tried off lead work, they would bolt to each other to play.. We have that sorted now.. Now we have the focus thing down, he is turning his nose up at me for really basic stuff. Like the drop command.. It is like he just doesn't want to do it. But his recall from 6 metres away, then he comes and stops right in front of me, then I tell him to finish (so he goes back to heel position beside me), he does this without missing a beat. His heel patterns are wonderful, until he is asked to drop.. We are taking a break today. I will take both dogs for a good run at the park and just let them let off some steam..

Yep, thanks - I think that is where I am going wrong. I thought maybe I was overdoing it and stressing (which tends to stress him out as well). A good example of this was when we first starting to work leash free in a group of dogs (class). I was so scared he would take off and try to play with the other dogs. When I let him go that is exactly what he did. Our trainer talked me through letting the leash go with confidence, keeping his focus and trusting he would do the right thing and ever since, he hasn't broken to go to other dogs once - my lack of confidence in him and myself was holding us back. Huski, yes we do. I use the word 'ready'. When I say ready he sits at heel and looks at me waiting for the next cue. I want us to pass but I am also aware that we still have some issues that need ironing out. I am going to have a rest day tomorrow and just do some basic recall and play. I will go back, fresh on Thursday.. It is so much easier when fresh minds look at what I am doing.. Thanks guys.

This is a new thing with him - it has only been the last 2 weeks that he won't do it unless he can see the ball.. He was working without it for about 3 weeks but seems to have reverted back to wanting it.. It is only the drop and stand that I am having issues with - he heels without it, sits and stays without it.. I asked about having the ball in my pocket at the assessment and was told that I could but would lose points for it.. Thanks Kavik, I might try the next few days with him being able to see it but not getting it until the full exercise is over. He can have it once we leave the ring, with no penalty.. He just can't have it in the ring...

:laugh: I actually thought of going and buying one of those mini ones (they are about the size of a golf ball) and attaching it to my palm with a rubber band but I dare say the judge would see it and then he would fail.. I am pretty sure he will pass but he is snubbing me and I don't know how to change fix it. It is almost like he is saying - no ball, no work.. cheeky boy.

Hi guys, I have a bit of a dilemma - I think it is too late to do anything about it but I thought I would put it out there and see if anyone had any ideas. Zig has his advanced obedience assessment this Sunday and we are not allowed to use lures/toys/rewards or treats in the ring. Most of the time he is good but his drop has slacked off loads and at the moment he won't drop - without seeing a reward. No matter how stern I am or how 'happy' I am, unless there is a treat in front of his nose (tennis ball), he won't drop. The other issue is the stand for exam - same thing as the drop. He won't stand unless the ball is in front of his nose - he stands but then sits again straight away. With the ball, he drops and or stands every time - so he knows the commands. So my question is - how do I get him to work for no reward until we get out of the ring. Can I teach this between now and Sunday - if so, any ideas would be greatly appreciated. From an excited but very nervous owner..

No keeping of foster dogs - if I keep one, I can never help another. I am pretty sure our local council has a 2 dog policy in town (or maybe it is 3) - but I seriously couldn't imagine myself with 3 dogs EVER..

Not really. Accidents do happen, particularly as hosing can be quite a Zen activity :) :) No worries, lets just hope that the kid and his parents aren't too clued up on the law then. A person close to me was charged with assault for hosing a neighbour once.. The neighbour obtained an apprehended violence order against her and she has a criminal record..

I try to combine training into play stuff to keep him interested.. For example, we might be going for a walk and we might do a heel pattern five minutes into a walk. The heel pattern will include things like stop, slow heel, fast heel, sit, stay, drop and stand.. Any combination of those things maybe twice each in a 20 minute walk.. To begin with, it was repetition, repetition and more repetition. Now it is just reminder of what he knows. Shoving bits of training in every day stuff is also what works for Zig. I'm so lucky with Zippy as she just fits in with whatever we are doing. She is going to make an awesome pet for her forever family, she is such a great dog..