Staffyluv

I hope everything is alright - I just came back online to see if there was any news. Fingers crossed.

Exactly.. I don't particularly like the way he does things but he obviously is reasonably successful at what he does and has great promotion. I would never try to do what he does if confronted by a dog that wasn't happy to see me.. I am also surprised we don't hear more about people trying his techniques and getting hurt.

Vet is the best advice.. Just my experience with my old SBT, Ollie, he had a weakness in his back legs and once in all four legs and it turned out to be some sort of infection (can't recall the name now) that inflamed his joints. He was on antibiotics and anti inflammatory meds for a couple of weeks and came good. I hope it is something easily fixed.

That was how we started, the original way I was shown to teach it and it didn't work. That is why I changed to treating with the hand that he actually touched.. I keep going back to this trick and have tried to teach it so many times since he came home with me. I keep giving up out of frustration and I think this time, I am going to give it up for good. I really do appreciate the suggestions and advice. We have tried every way of teaching this that has been suggested, I've watched videos on how to teach it. Maybe he doesn't like to touch something with his nose or muzzle? He won't shake paws or give you a paw either.. Every dog I have ever owned, this was the first trick ever taught but Zig simply won't do it.. Maybe he is the same with the touch as he is with shake or give paw.

I have been treating the sniffing - it just doesn't eventuate to anything else.. I don't use a clicker - I lose them all the time, so gave up - I use the word 'yes' in place of a click and to indicate that is what I want.. He knows 'yes' is good. It might not be him, there is every chance it is me and the way I am trying to teach it.. Maybe my cues are off. I wish I could find a video of someone teaching touch to a dog that doesn't already know the command.. I have searched You tube and every single video is a dog that already knows it - or I am a total idiot because I just can't get him to do it.. I hold my hand out with a treat between my fingers, as his nose touches my hand, I say yes and he gets the treat - that is no problem, he will do this over and over again.. I am doing everything on the videos and what everyone is saying but it doesn't go any further than him taking a treat.. If I take the treat out of the equation, he doesn't do anything.. If I say touch, he just looks at me and offers a sit or drop - he doesn't understand and I don't know how to make him understand, when I am already doing everything on the video and suggested.. Sorry, just a bit frustrated with it. I might leave it for a few days and give it another go.

What issues do you encounter when you try teaching touch, Staffyluv? Nooooo.... I should've bought them on the spot when I first saw them! Oh well, it's a sign that I should just focus on one course at a time! :D I hold the treat between fingers, so that he has to 'touch' my hand to get it. I say touch at the first point his nose touches my hand and them let him have the treat - I have tried over and over and over again and when I just put my hand down, he sniffs and doesn't touch it.. I really don't think I am doing it right because he really doesn't get what I am trying to teach him. I have tried touching his nose (gently of course) and saying yes and treating as well - this is also met with him not understanding.. I have given this a few goes over the last couple of years and it just doesn't work. Every video I watch on 'how to teach it', is already using a dog that seems to know touch.. So the dog just does it. The teaching methods that I am using don't work with us and I just don't understand why..

may I ask where you bought this from? never seen one, but looks great. I picked mine up at Pet Stock here in Canberra - I love it.. The side that is open, actually slides up an into the roof of the crate - so when we are home, it just stays open all the time and he can go in and out as he pleases. Both ends open as well and the top has an opening as well. It all collapses down easily and is on wheels and has a carry bag. I paid $269

I just bought one of these for Zig and love it.. My link I think he loves it more than I do though as he just goes and sits in it whenever we are all in the lounge room.

Lunging and growling aren't the only sign of an impending attack -staring is one too, especially if the dogs body is stiff. Some breeds don't growl or lung before an attack. For example, if a dog is in prey drive it will stare and stiffen up (and often dip it's head). It is dangerous to assume this posture is are. Zig stands and stares when he sees another dog in the waiting room - because he wants to get their attention or he wants to go to them.. But he doesn't because he isn't released to do so, until it is deemed safe and OK for him.. He also has a back and hip issues - so he stands stiffly.. He is submissive and super friendly.. I know that growling and lunging are not the only signs of an impending attack.. To me and this was the point of my WHOLE post - the other owner didn't panic and tightly leash her dog when the OP entered the room with her dog. That says to ME, if it was ME in her place, that the woman was comfortable with her dog and she probably didn't think it would move - so NO need to short leash, panic and run outside before an impending attack! Thank you OP, I did go back and see your apology, none really required - I just figured I was bleating the same point over and over and it wasn't being read or understood the way I meant it, so I simply gave up.. One more go at my whole point.. Some people are comfortable with their dogs, they know them well enough to know they are not going to launch and attack another dog in the room. That is what I read into the OPs original post.. The OP was the uncomfortable one, due to previous experience (not with the other dog in the waiting room though).. I acknowledge the OPs fear of other dogs but pointed out that not everyone is aware of her fear and if she is so afraid it might pay to ask for the last appointment of the day to avoid situations like the one in the OP. People can't read minds - how as the other owner in the room to know that the OP was fearful - like she said, she probably didn't even realise she was in the room as she ducked behind a display.. We all run into situations that make us uncomfortable in life but it is how we deal with them that makes all the difference.. To ME based on what the OP said in her opening post - the other owner and dog did nothing wrong.. To ME, the OP overreacted based on what she said in her opening post.. But that is just me - she asked opinions and I gave mine.

Your fear is very real and because of it you are more aware of the dogs around you - that is a good thing, to be aware of them. If that is what it takes to make you more comfortable then you should stay aware of other dogs. I have a bull breed and he often has wrinkles between his ears :) He leans forward when he is looking at something (a lot of dogs do - boxers, husky's come to mind as forward leaning dogs). Just because a dog looks like it is leaning forward and staring, doesn't mean it is trouble. Sometimes it might - but not always. My boy stands up straight, his stance would be considered forward when he is looking at something that is interesting to him. If he is uninterested he wouldn't be looking at it. I guess as his eyes are more forward than some dogs, it might appear that he is staring as well. But I can tell you that I know my dog very well and I know that he would roll over if another dog looked sideways at him. I am comfortable having him on a loose leash at the vets and if I say 'stay here' he won't walk forward toward another dog but he will move his nose up into the air to get a sniff (that is what dogs do) and he will look at the other dog because he is interested in them. So I don't think it is inappropriate to have a look at a magazine in a waiting room with my dog because I know he won't move forward unless he is allowed to do so. Perhaps the other woman was the same as me and knows her dog well enough to know it wasn't an issue. My dogs have been run down and attacked by others as well, so I know what that is like - it is horrible to see your dog being attacked. I don't agree with people abusing you over asking them to watch their dogs. Some people might be offended that you are telling them to watch their dogs, when their dogs really aren't doing anything - maybe it is harder for you to see they aren't because you are fearful of you and your dog being attacked again. Someone once told me an old saying about dog behaviour: Nose to nose leads to blows Sniffing bums, always chums There is a whole lot more to dog body language and behaviour than that obviously. re bolded part How can you say this when you don't know me. I have asked people to watch their dogs usually when their dog is loose in an on lead area and is starting to move towards my dog. I don't like being rushed by loose dogs. I like people to have their dogs on lead when out of their own yards and if it is an on leash area. I did say in an earlier post that some owners of the breeds that worry me are lovely people and responsible dog owners and you obviously fall into that category. :) Eta Sorry when I reread your post I think I have misread it. Please ignore the above. I have had enough for tonight and I am turning off my computer now. I think you have totally misread my post.. I will bow out now as there really isn't anything else to say about it :)

How is the other owner supposed to know that - I don't watch every single person to see if they are afraid of Zig. The OP said it stood up and look at her and her dog - that is pretty normal behaviour to me but I am no dog behaviourist, so maybe it isn't.. But every time I have ever walked into our vets the dogs laying down get up. Zig gets up if someone comes into the vets when we are there but I don't look at the person and can immediately tell they are terrified of him? You know Stan and Maddie don't like cats so you do the right thing and keep them on a short leash.. There is nothing wrong with that, that is just responsible ownership. The other owner wasn't being irresponsible - her dog stood and looked (stared).. It didn't lunge or growl, it didn't take off after her and her dog.. I am not in any way trying to down play the OPs fear of her and her dog being attacked.. It is very real and I know what that is like, for a long time I had the same fear after Ollie was attacked the first time. I have come to realise that not every dog I come across wants to eat mine. Doesn't make me any less aware of my surroundings but I don't expect every person I see to keep their dog on a short leash just because I am near them. This is just me - the OP can feel the way she likes but she may have to accept that not everyone will know and do what she wants them to do by keeping their dogs on a short leash because she is afraid of them. Personally, if she saw Zig and I and told me she was uncomfortable, I would be happy to wait outside for her or keep Zig on a short leash (not that he would need it) - but I am not everyone and there will be people who won't be happy to do what makes her comfortable.. Not doing what someone else wants them to do with their dog, doesn't make them irresponsible owners. That is just life...

Your fear is very real and because of it you are more aware of the dogs around you - that is a good thing, to be aware of them. If that is what it takes to make you more comfortable then you should stay aware of other dogs. I have a bull breed and he often has wrinkles between his ears :) He leans forward when he is looking at something (a lot of dogs do - boxers, husky's come to mind as forward leaning dogs). Just because a dog looks like it is leaning forward and staring, doesn't mean it is trouble. Sometimes it might - but not always. My boy stands up straight, his stance would be considered forward when he is looking at something that is interesting to him. If he is uninterested he wouldn't be looking at it. I guess as his eyes are more forward than some dogs, it might appear that he is staring as well. But I can tell you that I know my dog very well and I know that he would roll over if another dog looked sideways at him. I am comfortable having him on a loose leash at the vets and if I say 'stay here' he won't walk forward toward another dog but he will move his nose up into the air to get a sniff (that is what dogs do) and he will look at the other dog because he is interested in them. So I don't think it is inappropriate to have a look at a magazine in a waiting room with my dog because I know he won't move forward unless he is allowed to do so. Perhaps the other woman was the same as me and knows her dog well enough to know it wasn't an issue. My dogs have been run down and attacked by others as well, so I know what that is like - it is horrible to see your dog being attacked. I don't agree with people abusing you over asking them to watch their dogs. Some people might be offended that you are telling them to watch their dogs, when their dogs really aren't doing anything - maybe it is harder for you to see they aren't because you are fearful of you and your dog being attacked again. Someone once told me an old saying about dog behaviour: Nose to nose leads to blows Sniffing bums, always chums There is a whole lot more to dog body language and behaviour than that obviously.

That is why I asked if the dog growled or lunged - all it did was stand up and look at the OP and her dog. Most dogs will stand when another dog comes along, if they are in a down position. The actual dog, did nothing to warrant a reaction from anyone, all it did was stand up. It was leashed and standing by its owner. Every time I walk into the vets, the other dogs stand. If we are in there and other dogs come in, Zig will stand.. He doesn't move, but will reach forward for a sniff and usually has a low wag of his tail until the other dog or owner indicates they can say hello, then the tail goes into helicopter mode. People overreact out of fear and other emotions. The vet staff did the right thing by suggesting she put her dog in the car and come back and pay - no harm was done to anyone. I have a fear of heights and can't go up a ladder past the second rung if the ladder is outside - it is irrational, I know it but it doesn't make it any less real in my mind. Fear makes people overreact - some may think my reaction to having to go up a ladder outside is a complete overreaction because they don't have that fear. I don't have a fear of dogs, especially that 'type' of dog because I know the breeds and I have been around more safe dogs like that than dangerous dogs like that. But that is me, I am comfortable and fairly confident in that situation..

Ugh, I spoke too soon.. They have introduced 'touch' - teaching a dog to touch your hand or an item... I cannot get Zig to do this - I have watched loads of videos and he still just doesn't get it. Anyone else have issues with teaching touch?

Look I feel sorry for you fearing dogs to the degree that you have described. However if you feel that strongly about it, then removing your dog from the vets to the car as soon as your appointment is over, is probably the best thing you can do for you and your dog. Or maybe ask when you make appointments for you and your dog to have times right at the end of the appointment schedule, so you don't run into any other owners and dogs. We should all do what we have to do to protect our dogs - not so long ago my 25kg boofhead was rushed by 2 pugs in the waiting room.. It was funny to the owners of the pugs that my big guy ran under the chairs to get away from them.. I guess it wouldn't have been so funny if it was the other way around! Just my opinion but the simple fact that the other owner had her dog at a vet, tells me they must be 'reasonably' responsible - most owners that don't care, would possibly not bother with vetting their animals. You can't know if she was or wasn't a responsible owner - the only way to do that is to ask if the dog is friendly, so you feel more comfortable around it. In reverse of your fearful situation - how can she (the other owner) possibly know how fearful you are. She is simply there, sitting in a waiting room with her dog, checking out a magazine.

Happy Gotcha Day for yesterday Stan - may you have many more..

Did the dog lunge at you and your dog? Growl? It sounds like the dogs owner was relaxed, just looking sideways at a magazine.. Which would indicate to ME (not saying it would indicate to anyone else), that the dog wasn't an issue - to me, if an owner has a death grip on a lead, I tend to walk around the dog and owner. If the owner is relaxed and the dog not lunging or growling, then I see them as safe to be in the same room with. I would never just assume a dog was safe and allow my dog to approach another dog but I would ask, if the dog seemed interested (only because my boy is always happy to say hello to other dogs). My lad is about 25kg with wrinkles between his ears :)

I removed all flowering plants from the back yard to the front yard - to try and stop my old boy from chasing and eating bees (he was the same, nearly died on the table the first time we raced him to the vets after a bee sting)..

It seems to be pretty basic stuff that Zig is already comfortable doing at the moment.. I think I need to get him out and about and do the exercises in more distracting environments to get more out of the beginning stuff. We have just signed up to do a noseworks workshop at the end of August - I can't wait. It is hard finding things for a very active dog, who is limited in the exercises he can do due to his hips and back. We are seeing a chiro for his back but it is going to take time. Hopefully with the right diet and keeping him fairly lean and fit, his hips will last longer than the vet thinks..

The Blackmores Osteocare I use is a chew - I get it from Pet Stock. I am sure I could probably source it cheaper on line but as I am over there a fair bit anyway, I just buy it there. They have a reward program and it adds up pretty quickly to get a discount. Zig has 2 chews a day and I think I just paid $68 for 100 chews.

I am using Blackmores Osteocare for Ziggy.. He has two chews a day. I tried the RHV and Joint Guard and another one that you sprinkle on food but he wouldn't eat the food (even if I mixed it in yoghurt, I couldn't get it into him).. The Osteocare chews are just really easy and convenient.

I am so sorry PD.. RIP Doof...

Dogs are fed at breakfast time and dinner time here.. That can vary 7am-8.30am or later on a weekend (no breaky on Sundays because we go to training). Dinner can be anytime from 6pm to 8pm..

The only time Zig shakes his whole body is when he gets out of the shower. He doesn't even shake when he gets out from swimming - he prefers to drip dry :laugh:

Are there facebook groups for Fenzi? Is it separate groups for the different classes? I am off to investigate :)