Staffyluv

Hi Jesterbelle and Vada, so glad to see a thread for the girl I posted a quick update in Ollie's thread on Vada after I got your message the other day because I could not find her old thread... I think these threads are important because so many people treat their pets as real family members now, as opposed to when I was a kid and the dog lived in the back yard... So we are hearing more and more about the trials people are going through with terminal illness with their beloved pets. Glad to hear all is well...

Thankyou for your advice I am so very grateful Firstly - NOT YOUR FAULT... Don't do that to yourself... And don't let anyone else make you feel like that. These things happen and the tumour was probably there much longer than you realise. I don't think they can grade it without removing it or at least taking a full biopsy of the tumour (a decent chunk)... So harder to treat not knowing for sure but not impossible A vet should not ever be annoyed with you or make you feel like that. I would be getting a second opinion from a different vet. I would also be seeing an holistic vet - ask in the general section for a recommendation of one in your area. There are some really great ones out there. MCT often comes up in the hind end of the dog - most of Ollie's tumours to start with were on his rump and in the back section (he now has lots and they are everywhere)... If it is aggressive (and to be honest, without a biopsy, they can't know that - so the vet should not say things like that to you).. I guess we were really lucky with our vet, he was open to all my questions and if he did not have an answer would get back to me after he researched it, sometimes at 8pm at night. You will have lots of questions once the shock wears off - believe me, I know I did... Ask about diet, treatment options if surgery is not an option - chemo or radiation (so long as it is not systemic - in the lymph system).. Chemo does the whole system and radiation just targets an aggressive tumour. Supplements to keep the dog pain free if needed, what is available? How long does he think the dog has (if you want to know) based on his diagnosis? What will happen if you treat with this or that or just let the cancer run its course? If the vet you are seeing has not offered any form of treatment options, once again, I would be looking elsewhere if possible. Check out google for anti cancer dog diets - diet alone can make a huge difference. Happy to help

Ollie went through the same thing.. I know it is easier to say than do but don't panic, she will pick up on your distress and it will make her worse. I was so lucky to have the same good advice here on DOL when we were going through the same thing. A couple of days without food is not a big deal (unless she is very underweight already).. But she will need water and electrolytes.. You can get these from the chemist and add to her water. If need be, get a pop top bottle or a syringe and squirt the water into her mouth every hour or so. Warm BBQ chicken from the supermarket (no skin it is to fatty for a sore tummy) was the most tempting thing we found with Ollie and just a little bit here and there (a couple of tablespoons full in tiny bits offered)... Keep an eye on her temperature if it is up, there will most likely be a small infection. Maxalon for nausea worked really well for Ollie - get a script from the vet and take it to the chemist (much cheaper)... What other meds is she on? (apart from chemo drugs)... If they are holistic supplements, I would not stop them... I continued with the Anti-Ox and Lymphodran for Ollie no matter what. Don't worry about the cancer spreading if she is on chemo - chemo bombards the system and kills off good and bad cells. Believe me when I say, this is a pretty normal reaction to the first round or so of chemo (not all dogs get like it but a lot do)... Chemo is an aggressive form of treatment, so it can have aggressive affects but it works to give them a longer and better quality of life... She won't always react to it like this, sometimes you won't even know she had it. Now if her temp is up and she won't drink, she will need to go to the vets - when you go, ask them about vitamin C given via a drip (Ollie had this done a couple of times when he was really ill and it makes the world of difference)... I am working from home all day, so will pop in from time to time in case you have any questions or just want to hear it will be OK... Hang in there.

Just a quick update - I went looking for Jesterbelle's thread on Vada and could not find it, so wanted to let everyone know that I got a message to say that Vada is still doing well... Just had to share - it warms my heart to hear when they do well and are enjoying life... Missy (9yo stafford) had a grade 2 tumour removed but is doing OK now on the anti cancer diet... Just wanted to share the good news. As for the old man, well he is great. Still cruises the local park every morning like he owns it and is enjoying retirement on the lounge in my office... His hearing is really not so good anymore and he does not hear anyone coming or going and he seems to have lost a lot of his night vision but is OK if I leave the outside light on of a night time (or maybe the big bad stafford is afraid of the dark :D ) His daytime vision seems fine though and he thinks he can see things all the way across the park (even when they are not there )... Cheers

Do you mash the veges? I mash them all together and then mix the meat and veg together - it looks like it is coated with vege goop but they don't seem to notice the veg after a while - maybe add some cottage cheese to it too or even grated cheese if she likes it. Don't stress, if she is hungry she will eat it... if you fuss she will work out that if she fuss's you will give in (it is hard not to give in when they are not well - I have one here that plays me all the time)... If the dog biscuits are a whole meal and that is what she wants, give it to her - she will come back to other stuff when she wants a change. Beware, they get really fussy, eating something one day and not the next...

What was the diagnosis? Mast Cell Grade 1/2/3 - did they remove the tumour? if so was there clear margins? Is there only 1 tumour site? did they check the lymph nodes closest to the tumour? Sorry for all the questions but it is easier to answer if we know what the dog has been dxd with :D There is no reason why the dog cannot do chemo at 14 IMO - but the vet may have a reason other than age, I would ask. Grade 1 is usually fine with just removal of the tumour, grade 2 can act like a grade 1 or a grade 3 depending on the tumour... Grade 3 if removed can also be OK (if clear margins are obtained)... However the chance of recurrence is higher with grade 3 than with grade 1. Limit carbs, carbs feeds cancer. Veg is fine but no pasta, rice, cereals or grains. If no surgery and chemo is out, see an holistic vet to get chinese herbs and supplements. Vitamin C is a wonderful tonic for dogs and was the first thing Ollie was put on - 1000mg a day... Flax is a good oil to give - we use it with cottage cheese or yoghurt... Read Ollie's thread if you have not had a chance - there is heaps of info in there. He is MCT grade 2, no clear margins on excision and already systemic (it was in his lymph nodes closest to the tumour site)... He was initially give 12-18 months.. it has been 5 years in October/November this year.. He had aggressive chemo at 8 years old for 6 months as has been treated holistically since diagnosed with supplements and herbs... MCT can do very well...

Ever tried to tell a Stafford to share the lounge...

Sorry Brigitte, there really are no words that make you feel better when you find out these things - it takes time... I have no experience with this sort of cancer but I think in general that dogs with cancer are dogs with cancer, sadly some leave sooner than others though... Now, I would be seeing an holistic vet to get her some supplements to keep her well - we used Anti-Ox and Lymphodran as well as some chinese herbs, fish oil, vitamin C tablets (just the people chewable ones are fine). He also have a good supplement called Five mushroom drops... What protocol is she on? Ollie was on Vinblastin one week, then the next week he was on something else (cannot remember the name of it) and the third week he had off and then we started all over again - for 6 months... On chemo, it is best to remove all raw food. As raw meat that has small amounts of bacteria won't hurt a normal dog because it passes through them quickly and they have a full immune system working. Chemo dogs have a lowered immune system and even a small amount of bacteria can cause problems - so if you feed raw you will need to change that. Also remove as many carbs from the diet as possible - CARBS FEEDS CANCER - the number one rule in anti cancer diets for dogs... Veges and a bit of fruit are fine but no breads, cereals, grains, pasta... meat and veg it is... You want your vet, the canine oncologist and the holistic vet working together - not an easy call... But at the very least the vet needs to show the holistic vet what drugs they are using so the holistic vet can work around them... I believe that Ollie is still here because of the chemo and the holistic vet keeping him as well as they could. Chemo does not do to dogs what it does to humans - they simply can't give dogs the doses they give people because they can't give them bone marrow transplants like they do with people when the chemo kills all the good cells as well as the cancer cells... So they don't lose all their hair, they don't vomit etc... But there can be other side effects.. They can be a bit flat for a day or two and go off food after chemo. They can get the runs a bit. Their immune system is lower than normal so they can pick up illnesses... But life is short, packing them in cotton wool is not what they need - get out to the park and play, go for swims and do all the things she loves as much as you can... It is much easier to put all the crap away when you see them so happy, so often:) Good luck

Thanks Staffyluv. No, I'm not taking her temperature (I'll talk to the vet tomorrow), but she is now on antibiotics for the runs. I also got some special dry food today (I think it is called artemis grain free or something like that) and she ate that with no problems so far, so hopefully things are improving. I'd been giving her pumpkin, but I think she must have gone off the taste as that was what she wouldn't eat yesterday and today. Will try again in another few days. Do you think sardines and eggs would upset her more? She ate these this morning, but it may have made her worse I'm not sure. Thanks again. If her tummy is upset (ad chemo did give Ollie the runs a bit too) I would be sticking to as bland a diet as possible...So I would not do the eggs but I don't think the fish would do any harm... I used to give Ollie fresh tuna (I know it is expensive but he loves and you don't need a lot for a small meal) and mix it with some sweet potato and zucchini (chopped fine, steamed and mashed together - the veges) then I would just break the tuna into it... I found Ollie went between sweet potato and pumpkin - he will usually eat one or the other... I believe the artemis is good stuff but never used it myself - it is a personal preference and I just used good human grade (often organic) meat and veges... Cottage cheese is OK and light enough to give to if they are upset. Hang in there, it is a long road yet and if you are anything like me - you will question if what you are doing so many times, especially when they get sick... In saying that I have seen some dogs do chemo with relatively no issues at all.. Ollie had a few episodes but he was on chemo on a three week cycle. Two weeks of chemo and one week off, then two weeks of chemo and one week off for just on six months - it did my head in towards the end... Happy to answer any questions I can... What chemo protocol do they have her on?

Yep if ever he was down it was usually a day or two after chemo - off food, generally a bit flat. Are you taking her temperature? You need to monitor it when they are on chemo to make sure they don't get an infection. We used to do temp checks twice a day (yes he hated it) and if his temp went up, I would do it again just to make sure and then monitor him more closely on those days. You might want to offer some minced chicken or turkey with some mashed veg through it (pumpkin is really good, especially when they have the runs)... As for the runs, this is another reason to check the temp because the runs can mean a slight infection in the digestive tract - not uncommon for chemo dogs either... We did use bribery when he was sick with things like BBQ chicken (no fatty skin, don't want to upset the tummy more) and dry biscuits like milk arrowroot to entice him to eat when all else failed... Ask the vet for a script for maxalon (antinausea drugs) - you can then get it filled at the chemist... Much cheaper than getting them from the vets... We get all of Ollie's meds apart from the thyroxine from the chemist now..

If you have a read through Ollie's thread here in the palliative care section there is a lot on his diet in there... He had surgery with no clear margins and spread to lymph system, then aggressive chemo for 6 months and they still only gave him 12-18 months... He is still here more than 4 years since he was dxd... He is also treated holistically - we have supplements from the holistic vet that complemented the chemo to help support his system while going through it... Chemo really does not do to dogs what it does to humans - they might get a bit flat for a day or so after (only sometimes) and it takes a bit longer for the hair to grow back where they shave it for the intravenous administration of the drugs... Fresh (cooked) food is the best bet... Remove all cereals, grains, pasta, bread from diet... Veges like sweet potato, pumpkin, peas, zucchini, broccoli, carrot are all good fillers... Flax oil is a good supplement (a tablespoon over a couple of tablespoons of cottage cheese is a great treat)... meat wise, Ollie eats turkey, chicken, roo, beef, fresh tuna steaks and fresh salmon steaks (not very often for the last two as they are expensive but good for them and the tinned stuff will do fine if you can get them to eat it - he won't)... Ollie likes apples, watermelon, strawberries, carrots (sweeter stuff) as treats, so that is easy and he loves cheese... As cancer dogs should not have any raw foods, that includes bones so the only way to keep his teeth good is to buy commercial chews... I hate pigs ears - I have had to put my hand down his throat too many times to retrieve half chewed ones, so tend to use those dentabones or dentasticks - not ideal but better than nothing.. We have also just started to clean his teeth - he has his own toothbrush and we use baby colgate, not the dog stuff which he won't take too... While he was taking tablets all the time (and he still gets them occasionally) we used those carob buttons - dog treats as a reward because at one stage he was taking over 12 tablets a day... We also used to wrap the tablets in BBQ chicken... We found milk arrowroot biscuits really good on those days when he was off food - a couple every few weeks won't hurt the regime... Supplement wise he has ester C powder in his water.. He took 1000mg a day of normal people chewable vit C tablets ( 2 x 500g) as vit C is a great tonic for dogs and a couple of times when he was really sick from catching some bug, the vet gave it to him via a drip and kept him in overnight and he bounced back like a loon... Fish oil tablets (chemist), Anti Ox, Lymphodran - these two from the holistic vet... Who is your oncologist? just curious Good luck with everything

As he sleeps inside, why not just use a single electric blanket??? I had a few single EBs here and gave them to other dog lovers and they said it worked out fine...

You only need a needle aspirate to check the tumour, not a full biopsy yet... My stafford was 12 last June and had a toe removed due to a tumour that was diagnosed with a needle aspirate as a round cell tumour - he already has mast cell cancer (not curable) and we still operated to remove the toe... At 14 for a Maltese cross, I would think it that although not easy, it is doable. They don't have to take the whole leg, they could just remove the foot - dogs do just as well on 3 as they do on 4... Yes there is rehabilitation involved but it can be done. I would be getting a second opinion if I was you before the biopsy to determine if it is cancer or benign. Maybe they can use drugs to just shrink the tumour to make it more comfortable, instead of removing it - there are lots of options (sadly some vets just don't offer them all for what ever reason) I wish you lots of luck - please get another opinion.

Agree with what everyone else has said, especially scrap the tinned food - most of it is crap, when a special diet is needed... Have you checked your yard for itchy plants, checked his bedding is natural fibres (like cotton), is he laying on stuff that will make him itchy? A vet visit is the first point of call to diagnose the problem... Change the diet, remove the red meat, all preservatives and grains... Feed natural foods (fresh veges like pumpkin, zucchini, organic meats if possible but human grade chicken, turkey, fish) or get a hold of Barf patties (the barf diet has great success for itchy dogs) and feed chicken wings/necks too for something to chew on... Some extra oils in the diet might help, like fish oil (sardines in the tin - just home brand people food)... Visit an holistic vet if you can as these people often get good results for itchy pups... PM Zayda Asher on here who has lots of experience with skin problems in dogs - I am sure there is a thread here somewhere, will see if I can find it... Good luck - it can and often does take a while to get these things sorted out.

nice

Look at that face - he will be sorely missed in the canine world... RIP old man

The world is full of a$$holes - you just found another one... Sorry Edited because I just realised I wrote the whole word and Troy might not like it:)

Agree... I have an old man here that is happy to tell it as he sees it...

Another thing to remember is if you are going to give rawhide (but I agree with PF here, don't use them) - never leave the dog alone with the chew... I had to retrieve one from Ollie's throat because he swallowed it before he chewed it up enough about 3 times before I realised that he was never going to be able to eat these things...

Oh Serena I am so sorry... Goodbye big fella, rest easy

I am so very sorry Rest in Peace Misty....

Ollie had one that looked like that on his toe and it turned out to be a round cell cancer - they took the toe off and we have not had any recurrence...

We called out local council here about he same problem and asked if they have traps and we were told - we can't trap cats and take them to the pound... So OH asked if we set a trap to catch a possum in the roof and it caught a cat, could we take it to the pound... Once again we were told no - you can't trap cats...

Good luck with the op and fingers crossed that it is not much to worry about... From living with a dog with cancer for over the last 4 years, I have learned - don't worry until there is something to worry about... The power of positive thinking goes a long way...

Roo, turkey, beef and chicken... My spoilt brat loves fresh tuna and salmon too (but only has that when we have it and he gets some of mine).... All human grade and often organic. His meat is always cooked as he has cancer and it is better cooked for cancer dogs