Sarah L

Hi All, Thank you for your posts so far, the reason I started this topic was for people to post what they think about dog behaviour and to get more opinions on why people have dogs what they do with them and what lessons we can learn from each other on how dogs live together and how we live together. I would like this thread to be an open discussion on what we have learned and how we have applied what we have learned to living with dogs, and not on one particular method, tool or belief. You never know we might learn more from it. This topic is not for getting into an argument about one way being better than another. Vickie and Amahailte, your posts were just the kind of posts I was hoping for Thanks. I hope this makes things clearer as it was late last night when I had this idea

How gorgeous, give her a big hug from me Looking forward to next update on how she is going

Hi Rhi, that's good to hear that little Jak has kept some food down, She will be so excited to see you tonight. I am glad she is getting better. It won't be long before she will be doing zoomies again.

What have we learned about dog behaviour? Is it solely that we own dogs and so thus have the right to impose upon them what we wish, because we think they are there to serve some purpose for us. Or is it that they joined us in domestication to provide something we lacked in our own survival instincts. In so doing this did they join us to teach us something but we have not listened.? I have asked these questions because I am very interested in what people get dogs for and what they think is right for the dog. Would you ever consider a dog may know what is right for you?

Another angle to this is, maybe that the dogs drive depends on the person who has the dog and what they do with it. What I mean is a dogs natural drive and what the person wants the drive to be for anything these days depends on what it's environmental stimulus and it's learned behaviour is rather than letting the dog show it's natural talent in any drive, and then that person working to provide an outlet for it's natural drive. This may conflict with what the person wants from the dog and what the dog is good at. I know what I wanted to say, so I hope this makes sense.

What a beautiful puppy and such lovely dark eyes. I can see that she is quite a character. You picked a good one Rhi. Tell me anyone who would not want to cuddle her to death. When she is home and well again can we have a pic of her doing zoomies. Maybe we could start a photo forum and get people to post, my dog doing zoomies this would be fun. What do you think? Anyway hope you get a good nights rest and sleep

Rest well Rhi, so looking forward to hearing that she can be back home with you soon. If you post in the photo section can you let me know so I can go take a look. Thanks

Hi Rhi, glad to hear she does not have an obstruction, maybe it is just a delayed reaction to the anesthetic, my friend has just arrived who is a vet nurse and I showed her the post it could just be the bone working through or delayed reaction or a gastro bug it is very hard to tell. Good that she stays another night although I know you will miss her so much, but we are all thinking of you both.

Hi Gwinganna Just read your post, if you would like to take a look in puppy problems forum under training a dog to use a litter tray thread look under my post and see if this method would help you. Sorry havn't worked out the link thing yet. Sorry just re read your post. Has she gone to the toilet on anything else but the rug?

Hi Rhi, You can call the vet and ask for one to be done, or maybe that's what there going to do during the day. In the health/nutrition and grooming forum I posted a what bones to feed your dog guide for someone who asked. Have a look. If you have any questions let me know.

Did you tell your vet she had a bone on Saturday. If you didn't please phone your vet and tell him straight away they will xray her tummy to see if some bone may be stuck in the intestine. While I was righting my first post I thought I hope she did not give any bones to Jak. Do you know if she swallowed any of the bone on Saturday. I am not trying to worry you but just trying to figure out what might be the problem. Hope you are holding up ok. Drink some tea with lemon in it it will help settle you.

The kong stuffed with food is a good idea but maybe not around your other dog as it may cause problems. I would take away the squeaky toys for now so that she can watch you play with your other dog and see how much fun it is. Letting her settle in is a good idea to. Thought the idea of you playing with the toys and letting her see was a good one.

I feel for you and her so much, I hope she is ok. It may be a delayed reaction to the anesthetic and her tummy may not have been able to cope with the food. This does sometimes happen. What did you feed her since getting home? Sending you and her a big :D

Hi Gretel, just read your post and had an idea. If you use the target stick with some really yummy, yummy, yummy food rapped around the bottom of it and use it just infront of her nose with her head at normal height, as you are walking let her nibble the food on the end and this may become a motivation for her to keep her head up. While training her to keep her head up start with a short distance and back again to home so that the when the food is gone from the end of the stick you are back home and have had a walk with her head up. Its like dangling the carrot in front of the donkey only the donkey gets to eat the carrot along the way. :D If this works the first time keep the same distance of walks for about a week. Making sure there is enough food on the end to get out and back. As this was a and not something I have tried. If it works, it will also give me time to figure out the next step of getting the walks longer. Hope this helps you.

Hi Crazydog, I am very touched by your kind words, and very proud of what you and hubby have achieved. It was my pleasure to help you. Shall we call her Gidjet the Mighty Fidgety Midjet from now on. :D

Its my pleasure to help, post us some pics when you get her. I also understand what your saying about your worry of her being stolen this does happen quite alot in this breed. Any problems with the trays let me know. :D

Hi dla1., You can train a puppy male or female to use a litter tray, you will need 2 trays. The best way to do it is look at what the dog will wee or poo on when normally in your back yard. For most people this is grass. Get the largest trays available and also one that the sides are not to high on and the pup can enter easily. Dig a 2 slabs of turf from a part of the garden that it won't be missed from or go to your garden centre and buy a 2 slabs of turf that fits the trays. Punch three or four holes in each tray before putting the turf in and put some tarpaulin down under each tray with the side and ends rolled up to prevent leakage onto the floor. When your puppy does do a wee outside dab it up with some paper towel and rub it onto the turf in one of the trays. This is the real yucky bit :D You have to rub a little bit of poo into the turf of the other tray. If you get your pup at 8 weeks then after feeding, after drinking, after playing and after sleep to can take the puppy to the trays and it will wee and poo. You will only need the wee tray when your dog is an adult. The tarpaulin will also help when if its a male dog they start to cock their leg and stop it from going on the floor. To clean the trays just run them under the hose out side and leave in the sun to dry. Once the puppy has used them a few times, even when you clean them the smell will still be there to the puppy but not to you. I have always used this method in toilet training any pups as it provides very good association for the puppy as the puppy progress's I move the tray closer to the door and finally outside. Then there is no more need for the tray. I found this method prevented any accidents in the house because the pup had the same inside as out side and no confusion where to go. Because you will not be using the last part of the process you will periodically have to put fresh turf in the tray I understand your need to keep a bull dog inside in summer, and if you going to be out for more than 4 hours at a time, then this is a good solution to save the dog holding on to long or having accidents. If you do not have grass in your back yard, then let me know what you do have and we can work something out. If any part of the above is not clear then also let me know. Hope this has helped you.

Well for once I totally agree with what Amhailte and Erny have said in regards to your mat problem. This will work and is a very good way to solve this problem. Amhailte I never got the chance to thank you for your last post in our other thread. I am not cross threading but did appreciate the non attack for once. A good way to make the mat more interesting is along with the informal command is give the dog something that will keep it occupied for the duration that you want it to stay there for, this is used if a problem has arisen and not used if taught properly from the start. Examples: Stuffed kong that is packed tightly for the dog to work on. Pigs ear for the dog to gnaw on making sure the mat is big enough for the dog to stand up turn around and lie down on. If the dog is inclined to want to move when this is given then also what someone else said about the dog going outside is good, only in this case the dog can go outside without worrying it has done something wrong. When you let the dog back in it will be tired out enough for the informal command to work better. On this matter, IMO, every trick under the sun has only given your dog more ammo to use in knowing what you are going to do and can counter act what you do. Have you tried walking your dog without a lead on. You are obviously doing more than the average pet dog owner as far as training goes. This is not recommended for people who have not done much training with their dogs. The lead is a big telephone line and communicates to the dog what you are about to do. Gee now I am showing my age but never a truer word spoken. Try walking your dog firstly in a low distractive situation without the lead. If the dog surges forward turn sharply in the opposite direction and watch the dog go what the It will soon give up on the surges when you keep doing this without the lead on. It will be more relaxed and willing to stay by your side if it cannot read what you are about to do. When you have this comfortably under control you can move onto more distractive situations. Then you can put the lead back on and work with it very loose on the dog and you wont have any more problems. I hope this has helped you.

A good guide on what type of bones to give a dog is. If the dog chews and crunches the bones up then generally chicken necks, chicken wings, brisket bones and lamb necks are all good. However if the dog is a hoover and does not chew them then the above is not good to feed because the digestive juices in the intestine/ stomach have a hard time in breaking down the bones. In this case it is better to feed the large beef bones with the knuckles on each end cut in half across the bone not length wise., and bigger than the dogs mouth so that the dog has to gnaw on the bone and get the marrow out from the centre but cannot break into sharp splinter bits which they could swallow and cause harm to the dog. Hope this helps you

Hi there, I was reading this thread on your puppy being desexed, I know it is a big worry for you. The desexing of a female is more invasive than a male and the vet is quite right to keep her overnight. She will get lots of cuddles from the nurses, I know this because I used to do the same when I worked as a nurse. She will sleep most of the time. I know you realise this and are excited about getting her home. It gave me great joy when I saw loving owners so exicited to get there puppy's home again. Tell us what they said about her leg. Did the day care mention how it happened? Please be careful on giving your puppy negative energy. I know its hard for a loving and caring owner who worries. The point I am interested in is the eating of her own poo. Two reason that cause this are either dietary insufficiency or stress related symptoms. What I mean is maybe the poo eating is a result of some of the things you do or display to your puppy. From what I have read and not knowing what you feed your pup then I would be interested in knowing some more. Also does your day care have web cam access, I think this is a great idea for day cares to have this facility. Something is niggling me about the behaviour of your puppy and I would love to find out more of her day to day life. Anyway by the time you read this she will be home with you. Keep her as quite as possible for the first 24 hours and feed lightly for the first evening. Resume normal feed the next morning. Good luck

Very much agree with what every one has said, Why he is still being recommended dumbfounds me and the franchises are even worse. It's a shame, to many people have to get another trainer out after going there.

What you have described to do below I would definitely not do unless, while the owner is out of sight behind a door the dog is whining or barking or scratching the door. If the dog is not doing this while the owner is behind the door then it would be far more important to reward the dog for quite calm behaviour immediately on re entry than ignore it and leave it wondering. This is why it is a good idea to ask what the dog is doing first when the owner is behind a door. Otherwise it could put more problems in when there wasnt one in the first place. This method was originally formulated for dogs that were jumping and scratching at doors or on the owners with excitement when they initially returned home and greeted the dog and had nothing to do with treating separation anxiety. Why this has creeped into treating separation I have no idea. In most dogs with separation anxiety the name is very self explanatory and is a problem for the dog when the owner is not there and not when the owner is there. So the treating of this condition is solely focused on providing the dog with enough stimulation to keep its mind off the owner not being there. I do agree with showdog that possibly the pup was left outside for far to long the first time with none of the things I recommended in my first post in this thread for it to keep itself occupied or feel secure with. So it would be a good idea for the owners to do some work with putting the pup outside for short frequent intervals with plenty of what I have already recommended.

It's ok you won't get flaming from me, it's just a big waist of time and energy. Can't look at the dol thread on his bad behaviour it said the link was out of date or broken. With the new pup coming in then that's whats upset the apple cart. I am hoping the grumblings don't turn into some thing more, desexing will help but wont' cure the problem. Do you think your dogs definitely see you as the top dog of them all? As I can't get to the thread can you give me more info on his naughty behaviour and what you have tried to do to fix it. Honestly smacking and growling won't work. This is not meant directly to you but when I hear of or see people growling at their dogs it has me . This is not your normal tone of voice the dog hears every day. It is far better to imply a threat with your voice than carry it out by growling. What I mean is very quite, low, and serious talk works far better sometimes. Then the dog can quite easily differentiate when you are happy(talking normally) or upset with something they have done.(low, quite and serious) If your two older dogs are well trained then it's the two new ones who need your work and attention. This is why I need more info. Including feeding, exercise, play and what training you are doing with them at the moment. Also do you treat all your dogs the same or do you display favoritism with one or two of them.

He is sent marking territory, sounds like your dogs are having pecking order dispute. If he has been losing this dispute then this type of behaviour can occur. Have they been having any fights between them selves? If so what have you done at this time? This type of urinating can also be a sign of stress. Mabe your idea of which dog should be top dog is different to theirs. Did he do this when you were there or when you were out? What did you do when you found out he had done this? Can you tell me also what type of corrections you have been using on him when he has been naughty. What exactly has he been a brat.... about? More info needed please.

Hi songbird, Make sure the new owners have lots to occupy the pup with when they go out. A comfortable bed ant lots of stimulating toys for the pup to find lying around. Also there is a comfort toy that comes with battery operated heart beat in it, which would be good to put on the pups bed next to the door. This reminds them of when they used to sleep next to their mother. Stuffed kongs with food, that are yummy and well scented are great too. Get the owners to give this to the pup when they are putting him/her out. Another thing they can try as well as the toys and kongs is keep some of the pups breakfast aside for when they go out and then spread this into 3 or 4 small dishes near the door when they go. This usually is good way to stop the initial whining or barking as the door closes. This encourages the pup to find things to occupy itself. This is why I also recommend toys to left lying around the court yard. Get the owners to play with the pup and its toys in the court yard when they are at home also. Hope this has helped with some ideas for you.