Aphra

I really think that focusing on breed-specific characteristics is not helpful. The majority of dogs we get are cross-breeds, and most of the time we are making big guesses about what those breeds are, so even someone with a thorough knowledge of breed characteristics would be struggling to use that information. And dogs can vary as much within breed as between breed. I have a lovely young dog in foster with me at the moment, he's a Whippet X Kelpie. He looks like a Kelpie, but is low-energy, calm and very quiet. A temperament assessment that looked at him in terms of Kelpie temperament wouldn't add anything useful to his description - the fact that he's a bit shy, easy going and soft-natured would be more to the point for a rescuer or an adopter. If, as if often argued, temperament assessments are good indication of temperament, even in a pound environment, then surely it should work even for those dogs who don't present well in pounds, regardless of breed? Of course if you rescue particular breeds then you're going to expect certain characteristics - if an assessors tests a cattle dog and says it shows barrier aggression or is reactive with other dogs that wouldn't bother me particularly because I'm a fan of the breed and that's not untypical. I might go ahead and rescue that dog knowing that it will need a bit of work and home who understands the breed. But if I were a potential adopter, that information would be useful to me because I might not be experienced with cattle dogs and not in a position to manage or understand those behaviours. So whether the assessment said the dog behaved in a manner typical of ACDs isn't relevant to me as an adopter, I just want to know about that dog's temperament and whether it will suit my family.

Many pounds don't really like working with rescue anyway, so would be unhappy at having to accommodate volunteers doing temperament testing, let alone doing it themselves. I think it's really the lack of people able and willing to do the work. Pounds are often not open weekends, and lots of people work full time so can't get to the pound to do the work at a convenient time. I don't think breed is really that relevant, where there is a formal temperament assessment, I'll use that as a guideline as to whether we have space for a dog (if a dog is very reactive to other dogs we'll need a carer with the skills to handle that, for example) or how long a dog might take to rehome and how that fits with other dogs we have coming it. I see that temperament assessment tells me some broad things about a dog which provide me with some guidance about whether it's a dog we have the capacity to take. I have to say though, that while I might use any assessment available (which is more often than not the ranger saying, "nice dog") as a guide, once the dog is with me, I ignore the assessment and proceed with the dog as if it was an unknown quantity and start over again making assessments of behaviour and temperament. This is basically for safety as much as anything.

The legislation has no provision for temperament assessment. In NSW there is a temperament assessment process, but that doesn't exist in Victoria. Dogs can, and have, been seized by individual rangers. Dogs Victoria (who should be deeply ashamed of themselves) make themselves available as breed assessors, but unless an owner is willing to appeal to VCAT they don't have much recourse once the council has their dog. A vet certificate stating the breed might be some protection, but I'd be cautious about this, particularly if the dog is chipped as a Stafford or Amstaff X. It's also all very well for one, individual ranger to be reasonable, but people change jobs or move house and other people may not be so reasonable. Lots of people, including councils, don't understand the legislation, probably because it isn't very logical, so I suppose reasonable people have some trouble making sense of it.

The poster LDH is an individual and a member of a rescue group in QLD. It's just coincidence that they have the same user name as the acronym for the Lost Dogs Home in Victoria; they've not associated in any way. I took the discussion a bit off-topic I'm afraid.

Most of the dogs are held at the Lost Dogs Home (not all, but most of the suburbs who seize the most dogs use the LDH as a pound service). The LDH gets around $300 for the eight days they impound dogs for councils when they operate as a pound. Some of these dogs seized under BSL have been held for months and months, into a year or more. If the LDH holds a dog for say, 4 - 6 months, which seems to be about average for cases to work through VCAT and the courts, that means the LDH would receive something like $4500 - $6750 for each dog they have impounded under BSL. They'd be making upwards of $13,000 for a dog they hold for a year. Even if the dog goes back to the owner, the LDH wins because the council still pays the bill. The LDH sit on all of the companion animal welfare committees advise the DPI on legislation, and of all the major animal welfare agencies in Victoria, the LDH are the ONLY one which is absolutely in favour of BSL. I'm sure the financial incentive is important to them, but above and beyond that, by supporting BSL they encourage the idea that there is a population of "bad" dogs who aren't safe in the community, and that helps them justify their excuses for the LDH's high kill rates.

DNA testing won't help. The Victorian legislation is visually-based and DNA tests are not allowed as any kind of proof. The dogs who have been killed under the legislation in Victoria have, by and large, not been pitbulls but various crosses, most probably Bullmastiff/Ridgeback/Lab/Boxer types. Here are a list of photos of dogs who have been seized, and in several instances, killed, under the Victorian legislation: http://www.savingpet.../dogs-on-trial/ I don't think it's worth risking a dog who might be visually identified as a restricted breed. Once that happens the owner's only recourse is to the Victorian Administrative Tribunal and then the Supreme Court. At the moment the onus is on the council to prove that a dog is a restricted breed dog, but the coroner's report into Ayen Chol recommended that Pitbull crossbreeds also be restricted and that the onus should fall on the owner, and not the council, to prove a dog's breed. Given Victoria's track record with legislation, I'd expect to see even more restrictive laws introduced in the future. A lot will depend on the council area the dog is being rehomed into, some councils, for whatever reason, are much more enthusiastic about seizing dogs than others. I asked a ranger at one councils who have seized a lot of dogs as restricted breeds how many of those dogs were also declared dangerous dogs, and the answer was none. So the dog could be the kindest, best-behaved, sweetest tempered dog in the world, and that wouldn't save it if a council decides it is a restricted breed. So the short answer is, I wouldn't risk rehoming a dog of that type into Victoria; it puts the dog at risk of death and the owner at risk of enormous heart break.

So sorry Andrea. It always seems so much worse when they get a save and they have that window of hope. Poor little girl.

It annoys me as well. It's clearly just the media enjoying a salacious angle, but it's also going to impact on her defense because there is a sub-text that as an ex-sex worker she must be a dodgy person. Clearly that's untrue and unfair, but the RSPCA press releases keep playing it up. At this point, I pretty much discount anything the RSPCA has to say and unless there is good evidence to the contrary, I assume they are untruthful. They seem to be a prime example of Lord Acton's quote "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

I think it does matter if someone is forced to do something under duress. It's certainly a legal defence in a number of instances (for example a confession of a crime). An economic threat is still a threat.

I've been a bit annoyed about the lack of live links in Pet Rescue listings (to websites, YouTube videos, etc). As it turns out, if you've got a bit of HTML code under you belt, you can add live links. It only seems to work within the body of the listing itself. Here's the basic code for a website link or a mail link.

It's infuriating. There is NO empirical evidence that any of the recommendations they propose are going to influence the numbers of animals dying in pounds. NO evidence that they will stop large scale commercial dog breeding. NO evidence that they will reduce dog bite statistics. None of the suggested measures have made any difference whatsoever wherever they have been implemented. On the other hand there is real evidence that different approaches, such as the Calgary model, DO make a difference. It's lazy, old fashioned, sloppy thinking, influenced by the big organizations who are looking to increase their sphere of influence in the face of community pressure to do better. It seems to me typical of the kind of ill-considered, poorly researched, hidebound thinking which seems to be so prevalent in animal welfare policy. If you've been doing the same things for a hundred years and nothing much has changed, doing the same thing all over again with bigger penalties is surely the definition of lunacy.

Boxer rescue network on Facebook always has links to Boxers needing homes. Generally some dogs of mature years.

I don't know the QLD legislation, but in Victoria the police and DSE inspectors as well as the RSPCA have powers to investigate allegations of animal cruelty. Each State RSPCA is an individual body so you'd need tore review the QLD legislation for QLD RSPCA's legislated role. But I do absolutely agree that all of the RSPCAs are taunted by acting as a policing agency for the industry in which they work. Particularly, ad in the case of the Victorian and NSW bodies who receive payment from the same industries which they might be called upon to investigate.

I don't see much here which will really do anything to save lives. Just more legislation and more petty regulations. A wasted opportunity to really make a difference. http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/documents/Information/Companion%20Animals%20Taskforce%20-%20Report%20to%20Ministers.pdf

Turned out not to be our dog, the number was quoted to the registry incorrectly. Owners contacted, dog going home.

We're taking some dogs from Broken Hill, but we're in Victoria so won't risk taking bull breeds, it's not safe for them under the current legislation. There is a transport run planned in the next couple of weeks from Broken Hill. We've had gorgeous dogs from BH, they are all vaccinated upon arrival and many of them are out on foster care before hitting transport, so they have made a start on quarantine, if that might tempt other rescues. The more dogs we can get out on transport, the less it costs each rescue for transport.

Many years ago I used to babysit a neighbour's children. They had a beautiful Dobe who was bitten by a snake with the same result. She was paralysed for quite a few weeks from memory, but eventually came good. Would television help? I know we had one of our rescues who loved watching nature shows. :-)

My experience of Facebook is that is a wonderful tool for rescue, but you only get out of it what you put into it. If you're big on outrage and highly emotive posts, that's what you'll get back. We have a policy to not use our Facebook page for anything but dogs and cats coming in and going home and our general rescue business ... since we set a fairly sedate tone for our page, that's how our page works. We've never had to ban anyone or censor posts except for the occasional bit of spam. If some rescues have pages full of crazies then they need to look at their social media policy and work out how to recalibrate.

Rhonda and Nina often take the dogs left over, the ones which are too big, too plain, too ordinary and they do good work in looking after them and rehoming them. They didn't take this dog so that could <insert incredibly offensive suggestion here> make money out of puppies, but because no-one else wanted this poor girl. And while I agree that litter mates are important for socialisation, with 12 puppies, splitting the litter up once the pups are weaned isn't going to leave puppies without siblings or adult dogs to show them the ropes. And for the record, while we don't mind desexing dogs or cats early in the pregnancy, I wouldn't desex an animal late if the babiesare viable. Other rescues make other decisions and that's their choice, but it's not one that I would make.

I'm sorry Sharon. Lot of snakes about this year, I think a couple of good years for mice and frogs have meant good breeding conditions, and then the dry this year has meant they're out looking for water. It really sucks to lost a good dog like that.

The No-Kill movement is a system of several steps to prevent animals entering shelters and if they do enter shelters, helping them get out alive as soon as possible. For the most part when people are talking about "no-kill" the term does not mean what you think it means, which seems to be eternal kenneling. The idea is that if you can't prevent animals entering shelters, you should do everything possible to ensure that they get out of them alive and in good shape, unless they are a danger to the community or suffering past the point of treatment. A shelter which warehouses animals (and I'm not talking about Marook because I know nothing about them) isn't a No-Kill shelter, it's a lazy shelter which is not fulfilling some or all of the 11 steps in the No-Kill equation. Apart from TNR which is contentious in Australia, none of the other parts of the No-Kill equation should be either controversial or unachievable.

Neo rescue in Victoria are often willing to transport dogs from interstate to them, but they do need to be pretty much pure. I'm pretty sure their contact details are in the pinned thread on rescue contacts, but if not I can hunt them out.

Maybe NARGA have started a secret shopper program!

One of my favourite dog blogs is Yes Biscuit. It's an interesting, often provocative blog about rescue which regularly features a dog or cat in need of rescue. The writing is good, the subjects engaging and the discussions in the comments free and frank. The quality of discourse brings the readership and that has helped a number of poundies find a home or rescue. Write the blog you want to write, be interesting and engaging and if you want to feature critters in need of homes go right ahead. :-) The more good exposure the better as far as I am concerned.

We had one like that a couple of years ago, they asked a lot of questions about how the rescue group was organised and lots of stuff unrelated to the dog they were looking at. We wondered at the time if it was another rescue group having a sticky beak (for what purposes escapes me), but it might just as easily been someone who has taken advice to heart about asking lots of questions and checking out the group they were adopting from. If you felt odd about them, I'd suggest you just send them a note saying, "thanks for coming, but if you aren't sure then the adoption is clearly not right for you and good luck in finding the right dog". When we started our group our first criteria was that we wouldn't adopt to anyone we didn't like, and that covers people who made us feel weird as well. :laugh: