Joypod

Let's not make this seem more complicated than it is. One of the reasons I like feeding raw is because it's simple. It's not hard, it's not complicated, you don't need to study extensively to do it. Think of a whole animal, feed it to you dog... in entire or individual parts. Easy.

Bewdiful... ta!

Oh that's so sad. My heart goes out to you and your family. RIP Basil.

Excellent! Thanks guys. Gus is only about 8kgs so his one raw egg a week sounds like plenty for his Vitamin E needs.

Hi All, I freeze all of Gus's meat, bones and offal before feeding it to him which means I'm destroying the Vitamin E they contain. The only non-pill vitamin E supplement I can find to give him is "Mega Coat" which also contains Omega 3 & 6. The thing is, he gets two whole sardines each week as well as having the Mega Coat (which is an oil) mixed into about a teaspoon of sardine each morning so he'll eat it. Then, as high value treats, he also gets very small bits of sardines during training. The thing is, his coat seems to be a bit coarse (sort of thicker hair or something) and almost oily down the middle of his back. I was wondering if this could be as a result of too much Omega oil in his diet (is that even possible?) or if it's just a different type of hair because he's soft everywhere else? Has anyone else experienced this? Also, if anyone can recommend an alternative source of Vit E (natural or supplement) that I could be giving him, I'd really appreciate it. Ta Vic

Oh dear, I hope there's a solution too. The problem with bulldogs (French and British) is that because they can be allergic to so many different things, it can make finding the exact cause really, really difficult. Have you tried getting him off the dried food altogether and just giving him raw food? Gus is on a purely raw diet and he's doing wonderfully on it. Also, have you seen a vet about it? At least they'll be able to give him something to (hopefully) stop his itching while you try and work out what he's reacting to. The other thing I'd be doing if I were you was speak to his breeder and find out if either of his parents have allergies. It might be a good place to start anyway. Good luck. I know how you're feeling and I know how frustrating it is.

That's really interesting. Are there any books/articles about that espinay2? I'd actually be interested in finding out more.

Hi pants, welcome to the forum. How old is he and how long has he been itchy for? Is there a pattern to it (eg, only appears around this time of year, etc)? I've got a French Bulldog that had an allergic reaction to a natural flea treatment I'd been putting in his food. That made only his feet itchy. It took me a little while to work out what it was because it was only his feet that he was scratching. So, it could still be food related. Especially in Bulldogs which are prone to so many allergies. What sort of food elimination have you done if any? Poor itchy boy. It's horrible watching them be so uncomfy isn't it?

The poor darling. What can be done about it? Have you let her breeder know?

It actually looks like her entire lower right jaw is wider than the left one. Or is that swelling?

Gus is still getting two meals a day. This is my weekly feeding schedule for him: MONDAY: RMB (chicken and lamb). 1 egg including the shell. TUESDAY: RMB plus offal (liver, kidney, gibblets, brain, tripe) WEDNESDAY: RMB plus a small chunk of meat (chicken or kangaroo) THURSDAY: 2-3 whole sardines FRIDAY: RMB plus offal SATURDAY: RMB plus offal SUNDAY: RMB plus chunk of meat I'm not feeding him any beef just yet as the couple of times he's had it, it's given him the runs. I'll wait until he's a bit older. Otherwise, I'm happy to give him any other meat at all. I freeze all his food before feeding it to him (which destroys Vitamin E) so he gets a Vitamin E supplement every day which also contains Omega 3 & 6. I can't tell you really how much I feed him. I pretty much just keep an eye on his waistline.

The link doesn't work?? I copied and pasted it anyway. The article you have quoted from uses research from 1967 and is a website devoted to christina beleifs, not scientific beliefs. It is only natural they would discount the theory as they believe that humans were a 'creation of God' and not an evolutionary species. Research, as late as 2002 states; The latest twist in the debate over how much DNA separates humans from chimpanzees suggests we are so closely related that chimps should not only be part of the same taxonomic family, but also the same genus. The new study found that 99.4 percent of the most critical DNA sites are identical in the corresponding human and chimp genes. With that close a relationship, the two living chimp species belong in the genus Homo, says Morris Goodman of Wayne State University in Detroit. Source: New Scientist Journals "Chimps are human, gene study implies" 19 May 2003 As a basis yes. I guess my point is that people who say that dogs are descendants of wolves and should be fed like a wolf are incorrect in my opinion. The same goes for comparing a dogs behaviour to that of a wolf in the wild. Lets put it this way... I will continue to let my dogs through doorways first if they desire and I will feed them usually before I eat, and I will feed my bottom of the pack dog before the alpha Given that I am not a scientist, nor do I have a 100% complete grasp on genetics, these are all only my personal thoughts and beliefs about feeding dogs. I do continue to learn though and my views are always altering as I learn new things. Goodness Puggles you're right. ...about the link not working and that site! I didn't actually read the entire article. I skimmed it and thought it was backing up the point I was trying to make about us actually being quite similar physiologically to chimps. I didn't realise it was a christian site... not that there's anything wrong with that but still, it wasn't quite what I thought it was. That'll teach me not to read an entire article before posting a link... umm, that doesn't work... :D

Your source for this info? There are several species as far as I am aware that are able to interbeed. As for chimps and humans? I am not sure, I have not ever seen anything written about this. Thanks Tess, interesting indeed. It favours discussion on cats but makes some relevant point about the time frame and evolution of the domestic dog. So far, the articles that I have read and the arguments I have seen still haven't convinced me that the domestic dog of today should be treated and or compared to the wolf or its ancestory when it comes to specifics of feeding and other matters. Whilst I can agree that a diet specific for a canine is ultimately better (as oppsoed to people thinking they are little humans and should eat the processed crap some humans eat) I remain unconvinced that their diet should be based on wolves. The wolf and the domestic dog in my view are similar but not the same. Domestic dogs and wolves have been bred and produced fertile offspring. Edited to say sorry I'm just doubling up on what others are saying. :D

Source: taken from a paper written by Bioinformatician Bernhard Haubold of the Max Planck Institute of Chemical Ecology. Hmm, not strictly correct Puggles. Maybe have a read here: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2070

Clyde, BARF is raw feeding, just a different sort to a prey model. BARF feeders feed fruit and veggies with the meat and raw meaty bones. Prey model feeders feed whole animals in various forms like raw meaty bones, offal, whole fish, whole eggs, etc. No veggies, no fruit. Basically BARF feeders feed based on the notion that dogs are omnivores and prey model feeders feed based on the notion that they're carnivores. :rolleyes: Both are raw diets.

I guess what I was moreso wanting was a non-BARF thread that really focused on a complete raw/prey diet (BARF is not completely raw/prey really). Those who chose to go down this path have an "Ultimate Raw/Prey" thread, and if those that are on BARF want to make one for "BARF" then they can do so for those who prefer that method. Ultimately, I want a thread that has the information minus the discussion inbetween (so basically there will be two threads, this one we are using to discuss and the one we create that has the information only - e.g the "Ultimate") Yep, I'm more than happy to support this. It'd be great to have a purely information based discussion thread about prey model feeding without trying to argue a case for it at the same time. Excellent idea IMO. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be sure about that. Let's find out shall we? I for one am feeding Gus a raw/prey diet. Why can't we have two Raw Feeders threads? One for prey model feeders and one for modified raw (which would include Barf, raw + some kibble, etc)?

Hi all, This is a question for the raw (prey model) feeders. Do any of you not have to use flea treatments on your dogs? I feed Gus a totally raw (prey model) diet and haven't had any fleas yet. Granted he IS only 4.5 months old but I'm hoping I never need to use a flea treatment on him. I was wondering if it was his diet that was helping keep the fleas away. He gets RMB's (mostly chicken), meat (chicken, kangaroo, lamb), offal (liver, kidney, brain, gibblets), whole sardines and whole eggs. I'd be interested in hearing about other's experiences with the prevention of parasites through raw food diets. Ta Vic

Or, if you'd prefer to support a DOL member, ~Erin~ sells them in her online shop. I can't recommend them enough. I'd never leave my dog without a collar on at home because if (and there are always 'ifs' in life) he did get out of the yard, I'd want him to have SOME form of ID on him. Even though he's microchipped, i've heard too many stories of stray dogs being rudimentally scanned for a microchip and if none is found then they don't look much further. Microchips can and do move around the body so just scanning across their shoulders sometimes isn't enough. At least I know that because Gus has his Central Registry tag on his collar that (hopefully) he'd be scanned with a bit more effort. Not to mention having my contact details on his collar also. I'll never put anything OTHER than a Breakaway collar on Gus. It's already come off his twice when he's caught himself on something. Not to say he would have choked to death on whatever it was he'd caught it on (i had no idea what it was because i just found the collar on the ground) but still, who's to say he wouldn't have and that the collar saved his life? I think they're a wonderful, wonderful idea. Edited to add the address to ~Erin~'s online shop: http://www.twosmallpuppies.com/

I'm glad to hear that about their tummies coping with being stuffed full one minute and being empty the next. Some of the RMBs that Gus gets are quite big which means he gets a very small amount of food the next day.

Gus gets two meals a day. Usually a small one in the morning which is either offal or a small chunk of meat. Then he gets a larger meal in the evening which is usually a RMB. Depending on how much meat and bone that meal has in it, he might miss out of breakfast the next morning and only get the one meal. Two meals a week he gets two or three whole sardines and that's his only meal for that day.

Thanks guys, it's nice to know there are other people out there that have tried this also. Bridgie_cat, excellent advice. The problem is (amongst other things) that he's not wanting to go out when I'm doing this. So i open the door when he rings the bell, he sort of half looks at the door (sometimes he doesn't look at the door at all) and just keeps sitting there waiting for his treat. So i'm not sure that he's getting the connection between the bell and door just yet. Perhaps you're right and I need to wait until I know he needs to go out before trying again. I might do that tomorrow morning before we go outside. I reckon you've got it though. I need to make the 'going out' in itself the reward and for that to happen, i need to anticipate when he'd like that to happen. Hmm, it's tricky isn't it? Oh Mel! That link is perfect. I know what to do next. When he rings the bell next, I'll click, open the door and have the doggy door flap open so i can throw a treat through it to make him go through the door! Perfect. That makes sense to me. Thanks! you're a champion.

Hi all, Here's the dilema, I'm wanting to train Gus (4.5 month old Frenchie) to let us know he needs to go outside by ringing a little bell by the door. We've got a dog door that's set into a screen door so the problem is when the main interior door is closed, he gets confused and wee's somewhere else in the house. Otherwise, he's happy to take himself out through the dog door to go to the toilet. The only time he goes inside is when he can't get out. So, he needs to be able to tell us when to open the door for him. Yesterday I taught him to touch the end of a target stick. Then I put that by a little bell I've hung by the door and got him to ring it as he touched the stick. It only took him about 2 mins to work out that all i was wanting him to do was ring the bell. I used a cue of 'out' to get him to ring the bell. Once he'd grasped the bell ringing, I started to open the door straight after he rang it, then I'd say 'yes' and reward him. The funny thing was, this morning when we were doing it, he just kept on ringing that bell! It was quite funny really because it was obvious he just wanted the treats. My question is, am i doing the right thing by getting him to ring the bell first, then me opening the door, saying 'yes' then rewarding? Or should I be going about this completely differently. I've gotta say, I was so impressed with how quickly he picked up the touching of the end of the target stick and then the ringing of the bell to get the treat. He's a smart little cookie that bulldog of mine. Any help or advice from anyone who knows what they're doing (which clearly isn't me!) would be great appreciated. Ta muchly. Vic

It'd have to be pretty poorly executed for me to choose dry over raw. It's pretty hard to stuff up a raw diet IMO. Whereas even the 'super premium' dry foods are heated, processed and contain things like grains that dogs simply don't need. Again, just my opinion.

I'd stay away from dry food full stop if I were you. It's like junk food for dogs. Also, they don't need rice or vegetables because they're carnivores. Have you considered researching feeding a raw diet? EFS