Sayreovi

That's really exciting TSD!! Congrats on doing so well!

Another for Berwick, but again it's a bias opinion

Your reason is below, something I've posted about a few times but you choose to ignore. Yes it is listed as a herding and protection dog now, but was that listed in the original standard? If not when was that description included? http://www.germanshepherds.com/thegsd/history/ Is this Schutzhund club also wrong and ignorant about their breed of choice and sports history? Reference. It is important to note however, that I don't actually care what the breeds original working purpose was. http://www.midohioschutzhund.com/ You obviously do otherwise you wouldn't be responding too me about it at all. I don't care enough myself too search more, but I found both of those links and plenty more supporting my statement rather than yours when searching GSD history. ETA: Oops what do you know, another one.... http://www.germanshepherddog.com/schutzhund/trial.htm

I believe I quoted something that answers your first question and second question. I don't expect you to conceed you are wrong either, I am not saying I am right, but nor am I saying you are until you can show me something that proves the breed was developed as a sevice dog first and not as a herding breed. Who do you think I was giving his view points of? Is this Schutzhund club also wrong and ignorant about their breed of choice and sports history?

Incorrect, the dog was formed FROM herding dogs AS a utility dog. You've offered no logical reason as to why Schuhtzhund was started in 1901 if GSDs weren't used in such a fashion till 1914. Probably because you haven't ask me to give a reason. If everyone knows the breed was developed as a utility dog then why is the breed in Herding groups all around the world?

Probably because he knew the breed was dying out being a herding only dog, and for it too remain the breed needed to evolve. The below quote still gives the impression the GSD was formed as a herding dog but became a utility dog as an after thought. The word utility used before this change seems to be regarded the different kinds of herding required. I can also Google Ohh looky.....another bit of info from this "ignorant" person Still can't find anything saying the breed was originally developed as anthing other than a pastoral breed.

Does that go for all breed's or just the ones that are picked and choosed by some "all knowing" individuals? You do realise that a fair amount of breeds original functions are illegal to perform in Australia or incredibly hard to do legally? So given that GSD's are first and foremost herding dogs, not security dogs, than is Montu a mongrel unless of course you are also doing herding with him?

Just a late brag. Had a flyball demo last Saturday at the Pakenham Show, and after 12 months of no flyball, they picked it up straight away and went perfectly! Nova had one brief blond moment but other than that both dogs didn't do any thing wrong......only the handler did First comp is in 2 weeks, very excited, can't wait too see how they go

I did teach one of mine to come when called and beg, so anything is possible

A rat would be a better choice LukeW, they are quite intelligent little buggers and take to training like a fish to water!

You're comparing apples with oranges there. The only true test of working ability is working as originally bred to do. We've developed dog sports to amuse ourselves, keep our dogs stimulated and keep some instincts alive. Nothing more. Which is exactly what I am trying to say, people who equal training obedience to a dog's workability to perform original tasks are comparing apples with oranges. I agree with the last paragraph now

I think what Midol is getting at, is not that the dog's themselves think they are "working" but the spin that we put on it. How can someone say that just because their dog can retrieve a dumb bell over a jump knows how to herd sheep, or a dog doing a seekback know to go to ground? JMO ETA: Because I wrote the wrong word

I would say "No, however I compete in obedience" I consider work as the dog doing what it was originally bred to do, everything else is a sport. I do flyball, agility and obedience mainly but I've never considered it a sign of their workability. Put a bird in front of them, fire a gun and then I would say I was working them.....until then

No, definately not acceptable. Regardless that I don't train with check chains, the first signs of someone causing my dog pain will be dealt with swiftly......the owner should have immediately put a stop too the "demo" after the first yelp. Hope someone reported this so called trainer.

Honestly, just find the cheapest brands and feed them until they can afford better quality food. I have one dog that I could feed anything too and he would have the same results. Dogs do actually survive on cheap food and the people arent struggling with money which could lead to them giving up the dog. Tell them to find a produce store that sells pet food and buy Bonnie, very cheap and good food.

I don't go to dog parks, well when there are other dogs there anyway. They generally don't socialise with other dogs that I don't know, mostly it was with a couple of their flyball team mates. Hell, I don't think they have even seen another dog for months!

I agree actually, most wouldn't really know the finer details, but most would know the basic of what it is about......even if it is just thinking of a horse trotting around the ring. Enough for people to actually know what the clip posted has in common with dressage regardless of their experience with horses. JMO of course.

Get's more than enough coverage for people to understand it. Hey, I can't help it if I am right and you are wrong

It's like beating your head against a wall, if you don't understand a word Midol, next time just google it...... Actually, I would say that majority of people will have heard and have a basic understanding of dressage.....Olympics anyone?

Are you saying you have never heard of dressage before? It IS called dancing with dogs/heeling to music......it is just the title of the dance!!!! Do you understand?

Ummm, that's because it IS dancing with dogs, or canine freestyle to be technical and I think it's an extremely wonderful thing to watch. These people put in a lot of time and effort to achieve this with their dogs, with some routines taking up to 12 months, sometimes more to perfect. The commitment and training time is not much different to that of a sniffer or police dog really. Thanks for sharing Tangerinedream. Ohhh, so why not just call it dancing with dogs? Did you watch the clip? If so you would know why TD put dog dressage instead of dancing with dogs. It's bloody obvious, really! Of course I bloody watched it. How is it obvious? Oohhhhh :p Please tell me you aren't being serious? :D

Ummm, that's because it IS dancing with dogs, or canine freestyle to be technical and I think it's an extremely wonderful thing to watch. These people put in a lot of time and effort to achieve this with their dogs, with some routines taking up to 12 months, sometimes more to perfect. The commitment and training time is not much different to that of a sniffer or police dog really. Thanks for sharing Tangerinedream. Ohhh, so why not just call it dancing with dogs? Did you watch the clip? If so you would know why TD put dog dressage instead of dancing with dogs. It's bloody obvious, really! Awesome clip though, i've never been really interested in the hobby but it's still amazing all the same.

I've always thought this as well? Both my dogs have fairly high prey drives (one moreso than the other) but they are able to control themselves around my rats......though cats are an entirely different kettle of fish. Tollers are extremely intelligent, whether that ties in with trainability is another matter :D What is it though, with people always saying "If you don't own said breed then you don't know what they are like"? Every breed is different but they are all still just a dog :cool:

Mine is winning our division at the flyball Nationals last year. Both my dogs were in the same team, Nova was frequently handled by someone else as it was the fastest combo with both dogs, some races we were literally just getting out of one ring and had to run straight into the other so no break, plus both dogs achieved personal best times!!

I don't use a release word, when I click the dog immediately gets out of position to come to me. This works for me, the dog is then able to easily redo the behaviour. If I want a longer behaviour than I don't click straight away, dog has to hold that position to receive the click. Also, every click must be followed by a reward. The dog is meant to be working to get a click which = food/toy, if they don't receive the reward then the click becomes just another noise.