Sayreovi

I paid $900 (I think) for a co-owned main registered male Toller in 2002, then in 2004 I paid a little more for a fully owned main registered male Toller and last year got my fully owned main registered Toller bitch in exchange for stud fee. Bitch has a pup back to breeders from her first litter and even if that wasn't mentioned I would still offer one as her mum required a c-section and was desexed at the same time and only produced one puppy, so they lost her lines when they graciously still allowed me to have the only pup in what was a very expensive litter. Honestly for what I got they were extremely cheap, apart from a few accidents both dogs have been exceptionally healthy, have beautiful personalities and are simply put awesome dogs. All three are a credit to their breeders and their breed.

He can go out into your backyard. With my current puppy I was taking her everywhere I went before she was fully vaccinated, just do not to allow them to play with strange dogs or allow him to walk on public ground. Unfortunately the crucial time for socialising is also the time when they are most at risk, it's all about socialising safely. Maybe try the Bunnings compost bins to section of parts of the house? If you do a search they will come up and someone will have posted a picture.

Is there any reason behind this? I plan on giving CCD a crack in a couple of months, just fine tuning a few smaller points like drop position before I do, so interesting to learn about what the CCD judges are currently doing.

Wow, that is very cheap! Off to look at the colours more seriously now.....too many choices

Those are really nice, what is the price of them around?

Really? That's pretty cool. A very interesting thread, I've never really thought about puppy prices but will have to one day in the future. Even though there are only a dozen Toller breeders and there isn't many litters a year, the prices aren't as high as some more common breeds and there is demand for them as well. Generally they range from $1000 to $2000. Nearly all have imported a dog and the ones that haven't compete in various sports (some do both), so I doubt any would make a profit if they charged higher anyway

Good luck everyone! Wish we could be there......hopefully next year

Sorry but I think it's rather risky to generalise, my little dogs have been attacked by different BCs on more than one occasion. Not a breed I would particularly trust after my experiences. Everyone is generalising when they recommend a breed There are always going to be someone who has a good and a bad experience with certain breeds, but as Dancinbcs is a breeder (I think ) they wouldn't recommend their breed if there might be a future issue. It might just be an unlucky coincidence that it was BC's that attacked your little ones but the whole breed shouldn't be condemned

Actually I consider a good judge as one who will spend the same amount of time on my dogs as they do on other breeds. What makes them an excellent judge is if they know the breed and is able to tell me both good and bad points of the dog. Even if we didn't win under a judge who knew the breed I would still consider them an excellent judge we just happened to be beaten by a better dog

I am not surprised really, for some reason people are pushing and training dogs under 12 months too hard. I don't understand it, surely "career" longevity and future health should be the main priority? Pretty much there are no changes that are associated with desexing, just no chance of accidents happening and the best for male pups destined for sporting rings IMO. He is gorgeous Kirty, hope he finds the perfect sporting home

Thanks for the link, looks like we will be giving the May test with the ESS club a go

Thanks tollersowned. The Toller was "Max" FIONAVAR HAWKER HUNTER CDX AD JD and came second in Novice He has super enthusiasm and great potential. The owner has worked hard to stop a breaking problem and the dog would do well in Novice Retrieving trials with minimal more work IMO. Cool, good too know he is going well!

Great photos!!! Do you know who the Toller was and how it went?

I am curious though now, do you recall how many was entered at last years show?

Actually no I am not, I have no reason to be I was merely pointing out that listing the neuter entries of the first Victorian club to host the neuter class and stating you haven't seen new exhibitors is of no surprise as 1. It is still not widely known about especially in Victoria and 2. It's too far to expect new exhibitors to go for their first show, hence why I would say all neuters also had a few entire entries attached as well. I would say that OVCC, actually received more entries (and not just the extra 8/9 neuter entries either) for offering the class than if they hadn't as others had already posted that was the reason they went that far.

I don't see any new exhibitors showing yet, they seem to be existing exhibitors most with older titled dogs. (ETA those with non titles dogs are already existing exhibitors) From Saturday's Ovens valley show. Toy - 1 x Cav - 16 yrs, not titled. 1 x Tibetan Spaniel Gr Ch titled, 11yrs. Terrier - NIL Gundogs - 1 x Novia Scotia - Ch titled, 8yrs. Hound - NIL Working - 1 x Sheltie - 2yrs, not titled. Utility - 2 x Dobermann - Both Ch titled, 6/7yrs. 1 x Rotti Ch titled, 7 yrs. Non Sporting - 1 x Std Poodle - Ch titled, 3yrs. Does anyone have any dogs that they bred out there being shown in Neuter by new exhibitors? So basically because there has been 1 show in Victoria which happened to be a 3 hour drive from Melbourne since the class started that it is a good indication of what the class will pull? Pretty safe call that all those neuters also had entire show mates entered as well. Those new exhibitors probably didn't know about it or more than likely didn't want to drive so far for a show.......I certainly wouldn't have if I was showing 2 other dogs as well.

Ok, I seriously think I wrote my reply incorrectly and it's getting misunderstood over and over again. I do not think that the neuter class is for inferior dogs. I wrote "it is a stepping stone...." etc etc because it is, for those "pet" people with dogs of a decent quality that have decided they would like to give showing a go, it is a stepping stone for them to see if they like it enough to get an entire show dog. Obviously the dog needs to be transfered between limited and main and only the breeder can do this, so alot of these "pets" will get assessed before going into the show ring if the breeder is decent enough......after all it's their prefix trotting around the ring. I don't distunguish between pets and show dogs, they should all be pets anyway I am just trying to get my point across.

LOL He is going to think he is a Toller if he isn't careful If I had a pup that might get a ball fixation I would definately do things differently than what I've posted, I would do like you and avoid adding the ball till the last minute, I've been lucky though and even with 3 retrievers none are ball obsessed. We've been working on getting her to return motionless balls as well and getting her used to me holding her in place and saying "ready, set, go!" and releasing her to go get it (She thinks this is great fun ) I've personally avoided Jovi doing box work as she still needs to learn more hind leg coordination, she is getting very good about realising what her back feet are actually doing and the way I am going to train it requires normal height jumps and she won't be doing those till she is much older. As I mentioned, Jovi is my first dog I am (sorta) training flyball for at a young age and I am lucky as she has her mum's brains and her dad's willingness to work with me and his speed, I am sure my next flyball dog I will do things differently again! :p

Not going to be much help as Jovi is the only one that I've actively started training flyball for before she is actually old enough to do the proper equipment. Darcy didn't start till he was I think 1.5yrs and Nova around the same. However what I've been doing is focusing alot on her ignoring all other dogs and sitting close by the team dogs training with her and rewarding her for ignoring them and focusing on me. Nothing would be worse than having a dog at comps running slower than they could because they are too focused on what it's team mates are doing. Plus it's a safety issue. At the club they also have puppy jumps where they are only about an inch high so she is already learning the "jumps". We've only had one go at them and she was doing full recalls at the end Next I would like to try a one over, get the ball and one back and progress from there. Box work, I want her to have the best turn out of all three and she will be small and agile enough to do the turn I want which is that pop kinda turn, where all four feet are on and then they push off with the back legs. So I haven't started any box work except her getting to jump on it and activating it and getting used to the sound and a ball coming out. Like you I've been doing tug as well and just working on driving back to me for the tug. Ohh and teach him to have good crate manners!! (No barking and carrying on in crates!) It was the worst thing sitting next to some teams whose dogs just wouldn't shut up all day, yeah I know they are dogs and it's exciting and they will bark but the team I was on then, all the dogs were quiet.

I have been having the same problem with my puppy. So I've taken to setting her up in front of me and I am standing close enough that when she takes the dumbell she has no choice but to hold her head up with dumbell in mouth. Personally I would start at that end and then progress to the retrieving part, or sit in a chair and to get a reward he places the bumper in your lap and just progress from there to him standing and holding and then him sitting and holding. You could even use the bumper as a reward here instead of food, when he places the bumper in your lap, you throw it for him to retrieve and it also sets him up for another go? I am with you Mason and would never use an ear pinch, there are other ways to have a reliable and consistent retrieve. I also have a breed which will shut down if you use force so using an ear pinch is not the way to go.

I think it's a good idea to do a note. With the OVCC shows, I could have entered local shows that was 30 minutes and 10 minutes away but instead I entered a show a 5 hour drive away just because it offered a neuter class. Might be worth writing a note to secretaries if we enter away shows based on neuter classes on offer there and not closer to home. I agree, good on OV for offering the class

Hence why I wrote "pet" Gonna have to agree to disagree, I see neuter classes a good way to bring more people into a rapidly declining sport. Obviously the dog will be of OK quality and the owner is not going to be laughed out of the ring because the breeder has to change the registration from Limited to Main (Neuter).

Does it really matter if they are "clearly" pets? If it brings more people into the show ring who cares? It should be encouraged after all isn't show numbers dropping and there are clearly pets being shown entire as well..... Yes it does be it Neuter or an All Breeds Show - The judge has to sign a certificate that says "I am clearly of the opinion that this exhibit is of such outstanding merit as to be worthy to qualify for the title of 'Champion'" Then I guess it's up to the judge whether or not to award the dog isn't it? More than likely though unless the dog has a DQ fault they will award it and I would guess they would be lenient towards the neuters as majority are pets. The owners may then decide to want to compete in the entire classes (well if treated nice enough) and get a show quality puppy. Nice to know that fellow exhibitors still feel the need to bitch about the neuters as well :p Neuter classes are like a stepping stone for pet owners and should be encourage to exhibited their "pet".

Does it really matter if they are "clearly" pets? If it brings more people into the show ring who cares? It should be encouraged after all isn't show numbers dropping and there are clearly pets being shown entire as well.....

I don't feed my dogs on training/competing days as I use food as a reward, but apart from that they don't get fasting days.