myValkyrie

Having recently had a similar experience....all I can say is I feel for you. Horrible position to be in with little chance of a happy outcome for all. Our situation was a bit different in that we adopted our guy from the pound rather than purchasing him directly from the owner. We opted to return the dog....absolutely heartbreaking for us & still not sure I have done the right thing

How old is the puppy? I'd be hesitant to write off a BT pup's mouth as a baby....as a bull breed with a unique head shape, their mouths can do some pretty funky stuff as they grow, change teeth & that head starts to 'crank over'. I'd definitely agree if the bite is undershot now, it's gone......they rarely improve. Personally, I prefer to see a BT baby a little over rather than a scissor bite.....far more chance of finishing at maturity with a sound mouth. It may mean he is unsuitable for breeding - depends why his mouth is faulty & how bad it is. Were you planning on showing him too? A mouth fault will really hinder your success in the all breeds ring.

Really unfortunate situation. I see exactly why those who oppose this are agitating for him to be caught - the dog poses an unnecessary risk not just to himself but those around him. Would I be ok with it if he were one of mine? No - I don't think anyone would. I also understand that capturing this dog will probably mean euthanising this dog. I agree that this Maremma has made a choice....if he wanted to be a house dog....he would be. I gather he has owners.....what's their role in this?

After years of owning nothing but Bull Terriers, I too was a wee bit "terriered out" :) So when my kids took an interest in showing, we looked for something a bit more manageable for a young child. Absolutely lovely little dogs - I had not owned a spitz breed before I found these guys very trainable & easy to get along with. Wonderful attitude.....they bounce through life & find the fun in everything :) My eldest had an absolute blast showing.....they are well aware they are gorgeous & more than happy to strut their stuff. They love to be involved in whatever you're doing and are a very robust, active little dog under all the fluff. The coat isn't nearly as much work as it may look.....which is great because they looove water. Get along well with other pets (I would be careful with guinea pigs & the like tho) good watchdogs & totally adoring of their family. Can you tell I still miss mine

We live on acreage & the entrance gate is locked if there's nobody home but we still have signs that say: "Livestock Guardian Dogs Loose on Property. Please Sound Horn or Phone xxxx xxx xxx. Do Not Enter Unless Accompanied By Owner" - I carry my mobile at all times for this very reason. That way we have provided instructions as to how to obtain access to the property in the case of Ergon etc. & have also notfied the general public ie. the census guy who freaked out when he ignored the sign & jumped over the locked gate, that the property contains working dogs that don't have much of a sense of humour when it comes to uninvited visitors. I'm not sure how it would stand up legally but I have done my utmost to provide reasonable access - most people call & I simply escort them where they need to go.

I've watched this video before & I would agree with some of what the rancher says regarding the differences in working style of some of the breeds ie. 'the Kangal stops chasing when the chase ends' is exactly how my girl is. She would leave her flock to pursue a threat & continue to chase well off her territory. My Maremmas would not leave their flock unattended & could care less about a threat that is rapidly vanishing over the horizon - once it's off their patch. I would argue his point that 'they are like big teddy bears & they are only aggressive to predators, not people' though - ours will behave in an aggressive manner towards anything that doesn't belong here, as far as they're concerned, people are predators. I also didn't agree with his comments regarding numbers of dogs being reliant on number of sheep/cattle they are guarding - we've found it's more about the size of the area & the predator load (and type) the dogs need to deal with that matters. Plus balancing the individual working style of your particular dogs - we use packs of 3 (didn't really plan it, it's just what has worked out) & in each pack there is an alert dog, a patroller and a fall back dog (in no way official terms, that's just what we call them :)). This. They work together & back each other up. We found a couple of dead foxes, 1 dead wild dog, 2 crows & an eagle in the first year or so that we had the dogs in the paddocks (along with lots of speedily departing town dogs), nothing since then. One of our neighbours has lost over a dozen kiddies to crows alone this season, another who shares a boundary fence with us lost 3 in a morning. We've not lost an animal to a predator.

I too would be interested in what the charges are. After viewing the Facebook footage, I saw maybe not new or super-flash kennels but they were solid, secure, clean & roomy with good light & vision for the dogs - I really liked the drop cloths on the sides for when the weather is bad, neat idea. I saw friendly relaxed dogs in good condition & as someone else pointed out - a heavy coated breed with big grooming requirements, in gorgeous coat - along with lots of bright eyes & waggy tails. I know if someone were to sneak onto my property tonight (assuming they weren't bailed up by a cranky Maremma) they would find things that could be made to look terrible. I have a Maremma bitch recovering from surgery to remove a tumour - she's healing well but the wound looks very large & nasty, she's still very sore and she's missing her coat from the hips back - she would look dreadful to someone who didn't know. I have an old buck who injured his foot - it's been treated & he's a lot better, though still quite lame (& milking it for all it's worth - goat muesli apparently is the only thing that makes him feel better :) ). I also have a yard full of fresh weaned kiddies who are crying piteously for their mothers & are a picture of abject misery when they don't have their heads in a feed bin or too busy playing. Context & perspective make the difference. With the Facebook footage in mind, I think if this lady is convicted (if the charges are cruelty/neglect/mistreatment related), you can kiss dog breeding as a hobby goodbye.

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/california-cops-shoot-rottweiler-dead-in-front-of-owner-leon-rosby/story-fndir2ev-1226673433471 DISTURBING video that has now gone viral shows the moment police shot dead a dog as his owner was being arrested. The dog's owner, Leon Rosby, was taking video of police officers in Hawthorne, California, on Sunday evening as they surrounded a house where two people had been robbed at gunpoint in a non-related incident. Police complained about loud music coming from Mr Rosby's car as he was outside the vehicle with his 60-kilogram Rottweiler filming the scene on his phone. As they come to arrest him, Mr Rosby puts his dog in the car. However once he is handcuffed the dog jumps out the car window and then lunges at one of the officers as he goes to grab the leash. The officer then shoots the dog several times. WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT To view the video please click here. Mr Rosby told the Daily Breeze that he was left devastated at seeing his three-year-old dog die in front of him. "I was crying and hollering, 'My dog! My dog! Max! Max!' " he said. "He literally shot my puppy I had since he was 6 weeks old." police shoot dog dead Leon Rosby films police in Hawthorne, California. "There was no way Max should have died like that," Mr Rosby said. "Max was only protecting his master. He was trying to stop them from beating on me." "The music may have been a little loud but I was complying," Mr Rosby said. "I said, 'Sir, I want to make sure nobody's civil rights were being violated.' " Mr Rosby said he believed police were retaliating against him because of previous run-ins with local police. Mr Rosby has previous convictions for resisting arrest, battery and driving under the influence. Mr Rosby, who is black, said he has filed six complaints against the Hawthorne Police Department, alleging mistreatment and racial profiling. Hawthorne police Lt. Scott Swain said the shooting was in the interests of everyone's safety. "I know it's the dog's master, and more than likely not going to attack him, (but) we've got a guy handcuffed that's kind of defenseless. We have a duty to defend him, too," he said. Mr Rosby spent Sunday night in jail before being released. He says the police won't let him have his dog's body. police shoot dog dead Leon Rosby puts his dog in the car as police come to arrest him. Mr Rosby said he and Max were driving back from the dog park and the car trip was filled with Max affectionately licking Mr Rosby's neck. "All he did was love me," he said. The video went viral after being uploaded to Reddit and YouTube.

My very favourite photo of Luka Close second though :) Bose - very serious, dignified & zero sense of humour Macey - not so much Bryan - sort of wants to be a working dog but worries about the dark & loud noises

I've found similar - they don't need to be born in a paddock with their stock to develop into good workers - I think it was Espinay who pointed out that lots of rescues (who may never have been with stock) also achieve this. It is a pretty individual thing from dog to dog. Most of what I've learned about working LGDs has been through trial & error, as you receive a lot of conflicting advice. I made lots of mistakes with my 1st couple of dogs but we got there in the end - it's a big learning curve and so very different from training a dog for the showring, obedience or herding (which is all I'd ever done). What you say about finding the key to each puppy is so true (I also have a racist dog - he loathes red goats but loves his standard coloured ones :) ) - different strengths in individual dogs will help decide where they are best placed in a working situation. One of my boys is a brilliant "big paddock" dog - he patrols really efficiently, likes having lots of space & is quite forceful in his job. I have another girl who is just sheer magic with kidding does in a smaller lot - she's exceptionally gentle with the babies & knows before I do who is getting ready to birth. They will let you know what sort of a workload they are happy and comfortable with. I still get a kick out of watching them with their charges, they have favourites that they get attached to which is pretty cute & they will scold naughty ones. The way they coordinate when there is a threat is awesome - I have 3 boys that have worked together for a few years now & the teamwork is incredible, 1 drops back with the flock, the other 2 streak across the paddock - all it takes is that "danger" bark. In my experience, as pups you need to "set them up to succeed" & not put them in a position where things can really go wrong - so long as the instinct/ability is there, lots of opportunity, encouragement when they do well & some patience, is what will result in confident, dedicated working LGDs.

Sorry - I know it's OT but that is gold!

Lets play devils advicate for a minuite. tralee wants the heavy *Italian type* of dog to win in the ring. He also seems to want an OVER PROTECTIVE dog on his lead. Interesting combination this, in my mind. As a breeder, I want nice correct sound dogs with a ballanced outlook. I do hip, elbow, eye and thyriod testing on any I am dreaming of breeding with. If they pass then and only then I breed when it is going to fit in with the rest of my life. So far I have bred 4 litters and have been very happy with the resulting pups. I keep in touch with my poopie buyers and help if needed with advice. I happen to have an Italian dog (from lines that tralee admires so much) and while he is a fair size dog he is not the 80 kilo size range that some speak of. Far from it in fact. Having been to Italy and seen a few dogs while I was there I am not sure we are so far away from what the Italians are breeding. I am sure that for most of the year they have 3 or 4 times the amount of coat simply due to the weather. I think it is time to look at the dog UNDER all that hair really. All that said, for me personally it's all about ballance and working ability is a big part of that ballance. Now this is one of my last litter, Rusty is not only learning to be safe with our sheep but she is also learning to be a happy polite member of our little bit of the world. So what would the members here ike to see in their breeder? I like both Steve's & Zoiboy's thoughts and approach regarding the type of Maremma they are aiming to produce - I appreciate the understanding of balance and compromise.

You're quite right - the tone was not nice and for that, I do apologise. It was an uncalled for response to your dismissive attitude to others - just because their opinion differs from yours, does not mean they don't have something of value to contribute. Are you saying a dog that works well - performing the same function (sans bears/wolves but add in wild dogs/eagles) - in Australia, rather than Italy, is not "placed into its correct context"? Of course it is your perogative to prefer one type of dog over another - fairly certain nobody said you could not. It is not however, necessary to cast aspersions on the quality of Australian dogs, or the objectives and direction of their breeders whilst you do that. I also don't understand why you have enormous faith in the international showring to discern quality animals yet doubt the same process here. I do not agree that the Maremma in Australia has become, or is in danger of becoming, a "sub-breed" and I think it's very sad that you, as a breeder, do.

If you can't see the point when you look at those dogs then why are you in here? Do you have Maremmas, yourself ? I have Maremmas & I'm struggling to see your point - what, they should be bigger? more coat? cos that's all I see from the pics - nobody here has the chance to put hands on or observe these dogs Well, I see a lot more than that. Bigger yes, but also almond shaped eyes, excellent feathering on the legs and tail, smaller ears, absence of a snippy head, elimination of an undulating lip, and more. My point is very well reinforced by what the Italians are producing and have been producing for over a decade. "We have not kept pace with the Italians who are producing dogs that are, far and beyond, superior to our dogs. They win BIS at internationals for crissakes. On their day athey are the best dogs in the world." Best in the world at what? Turning up at a dog show? Superior, how exactly - do they work better than our dogs do? I (excuse the expression) don't give a fast one what you think the "Internationals" are doing & where they might be doing it (whatever "it" may be??) - I care that we have breeders, here in Australia, that are doing the very best they can to produce a sound, hardy working dog that truly represents the standard & is capable of doing what the breed originally, ought to do.

If you can't see the point when you look at those dogs then why are you in here? Do you have Maremmas, yourself ? I have Maremmas & I'm struggling to see your point - what, they should be bigger? more coat? cos that's all I see from the pics - nobody here has the chance to put hands on or observe these dogs