dogdayz

Thanks for the help/advice etc. I've been sent one (or two or three ) now. Hopefully no problem with the one i sent yesterday, but at least Im prepared for the next.

No different ones, we have a show one which also covers field trials then there was another for obedience/tracking. Basic info re the dog and owner is unchanged, just seperate sections pertinent to individual sports in one corner, e.g. height, tracklayer etc

Yeah i kinda remembered something about them quite some time ago. oh well have used a show one, lets hope it doesnt matter.

Does anyone know if there is an online entry form for VCA sports entries....not the show ones but the ones that cover the tracking/obedience . I need to do an entry today and am out of forms . First time i have entered this dog so i dont have a photocopy/scan of an entry for him. Entries close friday, so no time to order from VCA. yep, i know i should have been more prepared, but i thought i had a whole new book of them...only turned out to be show ones .

Thanks for the replies. kavik, yep we do most of those exception being moving to hand presented....working out how to deal with this as it clashes a bit with herding. General obedience stuff we do, but more at a distance than close control, as i want him to maintain some independence at distance for herding and tracking, and ive seen/experienced a few dogs that are a bit lost when asked to move away from their owner. i do need to start introducing some equipment type stuff so the raised plank and tilting board are good as i dont wnat him getting any frights once he is old enough for club training. Pippi; i looked on cleanrun and its bemusing how many choices there are, Im thinking more books are written on agility than obedience....and as for the toy section btw, does anyone know, do the sheepskin containing toys get into australia okay?

Could anyone recommend (or otherwise) some books for agility training a beginner dog. I want to do some basic exercises with him but dont want to fall into any boring ruts with him from lack of ideas to vary routines etc. At this stage i am just looking for what i can do as groundwork with an older pup...too young at this point to do serious training as such.

Have recently completed a 4 week puppy school with my new pup....should add i train and compete with my other two dogs but felt this new pup needed a bit of extra socialisation, so that was my primary objective over really learning anything. The school i went to (recommended by cosmolo on here i believe) i found better than i anticipated, having heard the horror stories of puppy schools. It was in an unusually huge empty room at a vet practice. It was the typical basic commands stuff, but they were encouraging to people and did not mind that i did not use their 'taught technique' for somethings, e.g. i lure my stand rather than physically support the dog in a stand. They discussed things like crate training in a positive way, diet they discouraged canned and said raw was best, but they didnt give you the usual vet thing of 'buy food X from us'. There was no off lead free for alls, the first week the dogs were seperated by size/sociability type into small groups of about 4 and interacted on-lead...discouraging dominating behaviours. Following weeks all class loose lead walked and interacted, again preventing the jumping ons etc. So overall while i personally did not gain much knowledge Im sure the new owners would have and it was an enlightened information that was given....it was positive for my pup hence i did attend the full 4 weeks. Final week not many showed up but instructor was summarising each pups personality and was much what i would have picked of each pup. My only negative was it wasnt same instuctor each week...so some overlap week to week in what was taught. One other positive is they do have continuation calsses of different sorts/levels, which i expect my keep a few training rather than going home and never attending another class.

thanks for the suggestions...we have booked with julia at woofpurnay, starting tomorrow

i have a 14 week puppy at present, who had c3 at 9 weeks and C5 at 13 weeks, and am looking for a puppy/dog school that will allow him in. At present i have found strictly 8-12 week classes - not allowed in as too old, and the main dog schools are saying 16 weeks following third vaccine (which Im not convinced i will be giving). Has anyone found a school in general cranbourne/hastings/carrum downs area that will cater for us. Not really after formal obedience as yet, just general social/manners at this time.

Thanks for that. Shame though.

it is listed in the Dogs victoria events calender for end august, but i havent seen a schedule anywhere and it isnt listed on vicobedience site...anyone know?

Skye (collie rough) got second in novice at the National trial .....a huge turnaround after her appalling performance the previous day :D

I dont believe its just the cues, yes in ankc T1 to 5 start infront of the flag, but T6 is between 2 flags. Aside from that though personal experience with my weim on his track 5, the tracklayer forgot to leave a start article, and just to add to the woes they also took the start flag with them , however the dog still picked up the trail and tracked it. Admittedly i dont believe my other dog could have done this as she is a much less natural tracker, wandering and casting a fair bit, whereas the weim moreor less footstep stracks with very little casting for a gundog. What i did wonder about is whether the dog should then have indicated personal articles, after all he was never given an actual personal scent to work from, in practice i have to say his article indications werent the best but then they never are, as he likes to keep tracking. I do believe undoubtedly they follow more than personal scent, and have noticed training and working diffrent breeds the herding breeds tend to work much faster and more accurately through bush than paddocks, which i attribute to them liking to work with their head higher where bush's like ti- tree waft a lot of scent as the tracklayer has brushed past.

Well we got half our aims for the year acheived....thanks for last years thread to remind me We gained two tracking champions, and skye got her PT in herding. Obedience wise though, we didnt try too hard, we had a little flirtation in the ring with skye, but it showed up her lifelong weakness of her stays...so we threw away a few novice passes, but the last couple of months we have retrained that from scratch and it appears to have worked so hopefully she can do her CD early in the year, and then she is retired. Beck, well we never did do endurance...due to my injury, and he never made it to the obedience ring due to his own injury....so you can guess our targets for next year .

how the grounds have fared in the recent weather? Just deciding whether to make the trip on the weekend or not.

Lang Lang Rodeo, has it every year for a big money prize, dont know the dates though

Thanks for the ideas...decision made; the tree will have to go. This afternoon he had to go have surgery after skewering himself through his underbelly presumably on a stick, while hunting the tree . So he has had surgery and will be at the vets overnight for observation.

Straight to the tree, when inside he is constantly stood at door asking to get out, very hyped once you approach the door. Okay will take food away if he doesnt eat straight off. Have left him out up to 4 hours at a time...he was glued to tree every time i checked, and just as hard to move back indoors. It has been suggested to leave him there until her bores of it, but i dont really like to leave him out longer unattended as we have high tiger snake population and certainly one was regularly visiting last summer. Tree removal is a last resort as it shields us from the neighbours at the lowest point of the back fence (about 4 ft), and while he has never shown inclination to jump, when he is in full chase after a bird i wouldnt put it past him not to act first and think later. Another suggestion has been to remove him to kennels for a week, and see if he forgets...i doubt very much this will work either...what do you think.

Thanks for the suggestions, i tried water spray and banging at the start of this, as he is a soft dog and generally just a 'ah' is enough to stop him doing anything. Have tried distraction as in all manner of toys etc, and the other dog has been trying to get him to play too and nothing is as good as the tree. Obedience wise he will recall from it first call, and he can do a stay at a distance from it (albeit craning his neck in all directions to watch the tree), problem is as soon as you release him he runs straigt to tree ignoring any toy or food you may have...so its pretty much become his reward so have given it up. For him to ignore food is a pretty big thing as he has pancreatic insufficiency so generally believes he is starved and is very food motivated. On the plus side we have gone 12 hours with a clean floor so hopefully thats a sign of some improvement.

My weim has long been bird killer around the yard, however some misguided pair of indian mynahs decided to nest in the tree in the backyard. I only discovered this about two weeks ago when my weim became obsessed with staring at, climbing and tearing branches off the tree. After a week we found the nest didnto have young or eggs in it so removed it...and let him see us remove it (okay i know the birdlovers would hate me for doing that, but they seriously werent going to live long). He is obsessed to the point he now has to be fed meals indoors because if his food is outside as usual he doesnt bother to eat (not a good idea when living with a food orientated collie), but also whenever outside he is so engrossed by the tree he is not toiletting. Only when brought inside does he think to toilet....this is a dog that has always been house clean. My dogs are generally inside dogs, but get plenty of exercise and stimulation with obedience, tracking and walking. I took him out yesterday and ran him to the point he would no longer chase a ball, but still as soon as he got home he was back to the tree. Have tried distracting him to no avail, have called him away but as soon as he reaches you he turns and sprints back to the tree. Have tried to do obedience exercise with him but he constatly tries to get back to tree. he has never shown this type of obsessive behaviour before. Any ideas, it has gone on too long already and i dont want it becoming ingrained any further.

When you say you hold him back, how much leeway do you give him. I will continue to go forward even if the dog is 5 metres of the track so long as direction is good. Mine werent taught to footstep track so i dont expect them to be within cms at all time. Like i said if you drift yourself across the line not just follow he will usually drift back to the track. If the dog is pulling hard in the wrong direction then i will stop and wait for them to work back. And when they come back towards me, i back track so the dog is coming back to where he lost the track. The only way to know if he is really tracking is to learn his body language, some dogs are easier to read than others. Often an experienced person following will read his body language better than you, as you concentrate too hard on the dog, someone following will see the little clues like tail wags and posture better, ask them what they see when he is on and off track.

I started oneof mine with straights the other with corners. The one started with straights was always hard work, she actually trials better than she trains, and i believe that is because its a stranger with her food reward nd she is very food possesive. In training she knows she will get the reward, in a trial she isnt prepared to take the chance that stranger will give it up . There are many ways to teach tracking, every group has its own beliefs, its a case of picking what works for your dog. For instance we never put food on the track, occasionally we have put it under an article for a dog with too much enthusaism they dont want to indicate an article. Also remember that not all dogs track with nose on the ground and footstep track, some do cast even when on the right line. Dont expect everydog to track like a gsd, gundogs often cast about. If the dog is prone to wandering offline, consider if its just wind direction drifting scent across, also if you move across to stay behind the dog, it will often move back towards the track, whereas if you stay on the track while it goes off it will continue pulling into the harness. Soemtime you just have to mix things up, i can think of one i train with who really doesnt track well in open spaces, but when we tried him on a bush track he loved it and ran the track spot on the whole way, because he isnt a nose on the ground type having scent on high grass and bracken helped him a lot. ETA; ah New Zealand, explains you tracking in warm afternoons...how i wishwe didnt have snakes here

that would be assuming he cares for water cracker or bread I know people who believe that once a dog has been trained out for the higher levels here, they find it hard to then do a fresh track as there is simply too much scent around, also people scuffing their feet on the corners can throw them, too much scent pool. Think of it if you stand in your garden and there is a fire off in the distance normally you could pick the direction its coming from, but if stood an area filled with smoke you would find it harder to say where the source is. If he is motivated then i would say mark your corner with something (as you lay the track) so you know its true position...its always looks different when you are behind the dog compared to when you walked it. Keep the leash to 5 metres. Dont let him go too far past the corner marker in a wrong direction, by not letting him take any more leash from you, and dont you walk nearer to the marker than you already are, you dont wnat to add scent in the area. Encourage him to find, loud sniffing noises often encourage a dog to put its own head down and sniff, when he finds the right direction good boy and release some leash too him. With practice he should learn that once he loses scent he needs to cast for it not just continue pulling in the direction he was going hoping it will reappear. If he gets totally stressed at the corner or just sits there looking helpless then go to the corner yourself, put you hand low, head low, sniff noises and encourage him on the correct line. Most of all patience some dogs just take longer to get it...i have a collie here who is hopeless but has her TCh and acheived it in the same time frame as my weim who knew first time up what to do, she just needs more help and encouragement from her handler.

We do a bit of everything, but depends on the dog i think, i have one who thrives on variety so is happy to do 3 disciplines ina weekend, the other doesnt cope so well, so only one thing at a time. Arya; interesting what you say about your girls confidence going up after tracking, I have noted the same with my weim, who after two years tracking is a much more confident dog, around other dogs and people. I think because tracking there really isnt any correction only reward so he has suddenly realised he can do things to please me. He is now reentering obedience, which we gave up as he couldnt do a stand for exam without going into full meltdown, but out of curiosity i have put him through the ccd ring four time this year without attempting to retrain stand for exam and he has perfect scored all four times.

okay, you have raised my curiousity twice now referring to jumps, can you explain what jumps are required. My two have T.Ch titles and have never been required to jump? As for your original question, i think it would be a rare dog who cant track, there certainly are titled staffies, some do take longer to get the idea though. The kibble experiment Im not sure about, my personal interpretation would be that strong smelling food may flood the area with too much scent, it becomes harder to pinpoint the position. As others have said start straight lines only, when progressing to corners you can either do gentle curves, or help the dog a little by doing a right angle turn but leaving a scent article about 10m after the turn to help draw the dog. IMHO Biggest motivator for any dog learning is to find its owner....if you have access to someone experienced handling the dog, its worth leaving you at the end of the track, and having them handle the dog, for a few weeks until the dog shows he has the idea. Take the food and toy with you and make a big fuss when he finds you. Once he is excited by the sight of his toy/food rewards you can start to leave just them at the end of the track. Alternativley if you have another family member he is very fond of have them lay the track. Whichever way let him see them walk off, then hide him so he doesnt see where they finish the track.