Ms James

Thanks, guys! As per Erny's suggestion, I'll use the loo & the bathroom to separate them (DOH! hadn't been separating them when they go outside), that way we can still have the ensuite if anyone in the family needs to do a little wee walkies We have very sensitive bladders in this family The only 'marker' we've been using if they fight inside or chase the cat is 'outside', but we also use 'outside' to get them...well...outside , I definitely think we'll be switching to 'timeout' when they chase & then put them in the bathroom. We have found that there's a noticeable improvement in their behaviour since we've implemented the timeout about a month ago, they fight a lot less inside. I want them to gradually understand, though, that chasing the cat is not on, because the cat is an angry ball of furry rage & can be more than a match for them They're fine with the other two cats we have, because both of those cats grew up with doggies & therefore know that if you run while the dog is there, the dog will think it's a great game & will chase. Themis, on the other hand, is a very old, very grumpy (albeit beautiful) cat, who grew up as an only cat with zero contact with dogs. As much as Themis is beautiful, he's also a bit, shall we say, thick. After 18 months of living with the dogs, he's yet to figure out the dashing across the room to chasing ratio, and will almost always make a mad dash from one end of the house to the other. It's actually quite funny to watch when he crosses from the carpet in the livingroom to the tiles in the kitchen. Yes, we do stop giggling long enough to timeout the dogs! Roggie is actually very good with Themis, & will drop if Themis is sitting quietly somewhere, taking the hissing and spitting aimed in his direction in his stride. But if Themis bolts and does his mad-cat-on-crack impersonation, all bets are off, the prey drive kicks in & both doggies go for it with much barking, hissing, and the blood...poor Roggie & Bella have both had to have their noses nursed back to health after a kitty-claw incident. I figure it's just easier to train the dogs to not chase the cat than it is to get the cat to just accept that there's big slobbery furry things wanting to sniff him. It might take a while, and we probably won't get them 100% Themis-proofed, but we have managed to get the chasing incidents down from a few times a day to just a few times a week...so there is improvement there One day I'll post a picture of Bella licking our kitten Mozzie's face. The look on the kitten's face is priceless everytime she gets a nice slurp on the side of the cheek

Hi All Our doggies are indoor/outdoor dogs - outside after their dinner at 10pm & let in mid-morning when the cats have settled down from their nocturnal shenanigans. Currently we're using the sin bin to punish unacceptable behaviour (fighting indoors & chasing the cats). We're pretty consistent with sin binning them, but I'm just not too sure if I'm putting them in the right place to do so - so far we have just put them back outside when the behaviour occurs & leave them there for 15 minutes to calm down & let them back inside, most of the time they just sit outside the sliding door and stare at us until they get bored. Is outside the right place, or should I be looking for somewhere else, such as the laundry? I'm worried that they might start associating the yard with being naughty. Thanks for your input!

Definitely should be pinned! I think this is a great idea

My Roggie is an expert food catcher, no food is tossed up in the air without him going for a leap that would make even the most agile frisbee doggy weep :D My Bella, on the other hand, still has yet to catch on. She just stares at you while the food bounces off her nose or head :D it's a source of great amusement in our household

I always thought the goal of heelwork and social walking was a loose lead I think you got gipped, BittyMooPeeb :D

Holy mother of all that is um...holy. Those prices are awesome! Bookmarking link now Have you ordered from this mob before? Are they reliable? I'm always a bit iffy with internet buying...still stuck in the dark ages :D

We used to use Advantage, but then we found Advocate which worms as well as fleas. At our vet we pay about $60 for the 3 months and around $100 (I think) for the 6 month (that's for our 19 & 24kg doggies).

'Ello! Noob here! I totally 100% agree with the OP sentiments, but I do feel that it was a tad confrontational in the wording. Although I guess sometimes it's necessary to be a bit more forceful in one's wording to actually get the point across. At our training centre we're encouraged to use different collars for different disciplines, so if we're doing basic obedience for that day we can use whichever correction method/collar we find is best on our dog. They don't dictate what that collar should be, so you can use a check, prong, martingale or flat collar as you choose, which is great & acknowledges that each dog responds to a different collar as an individual. For agility - and we're only still doing basic intro to agility atm - they encourage us to use a flat collar so that the doggy doesn't get a correction while s/he is in the early learning phases of agility. I love that they've got an open mind about such things and allow you to make the best choice for your dog. I actually first came to these forums ages ago because it was always one of the first few hits when I was doing Google searches on Prong collars & deciding whether or not I should invest in one. It offered up lively debate and, although some people can get hot under the collar (pardon the pun ), it's always been a source of invaluable information. I have the utmost respect for the professionals that frequent this board, & I'm so glad that they can offer up their expertise to dunderheads like me Now, I really wanted to hug my dog while I was typing this...but she felt it was far more interesting to go sniff the cat instead. Hrmph!

I feel your pain Although, my dogs prefer to fart in the car, where there's no escape

Naaahh .... it's the logo's on our shirts and the words "dog trainer" printed on them. On campus would, I expect, be more intense - but probably more packed with practical work and experience. Check with NDTF regarding differences. As I've mentioned to you previously - I think you would do well. Aw, shucks, thanks Erny On/off campus will depend on how overextended the family could get over the coming months, we'll have a few foster kiddies coming (teenagers ) soon, and I wouldn't want to be missing classes because there's crises, slamming doors, and the shoutings of "it's just not FAAAAIIIIIIIR" Distance might be the way to go, I'll give them a call on the morrow Hey, Winterpaws, you guys wanna be study buddies if I do the course?

Hey!! MsJames!!! Practice, practice, practice. tee hee! I'll do that & maybe when the doggies are tired of being practised on, I can practise eliminating my unco-ness on the OH, he'd look so pretty in a check chain & on the other end of my lead

I'm thinking about doing the course too I'm debating whether or not to do it through distance ed or "on campus". I think it's a great thing to do to get into your dog's head...I'm sure there's a magic pill they give dog trainers to make doggies behave around them!!

Yeah, the martingales are probably a good idea, I'm thinking of getting one for my Bella-buttons. Not because she's an escape artist, rather I'm too flaming unco to keep her check chain in the correct position when we're training

Again, I'll mention that the "crazy talk" remark was facetious, I do try as I can to punctuate my posts with as much humour as possible. I'd like to think there are people out there that can understand that, unfortunately that's not always the case and as I can see, something as simple as that can be misinterpreted. If anyone had actually bothered to read the article, they'd see this guy doesn't actually vaccinate the puppies in his care, he instead uses natural foods & hopes that their natural immunity will combat any diseases his dogs encounter. From browsing the health forums, the general consensus here is that early vaccination for pets is vital, it's merely the frequency of vaccination into adulthood that is under debate. That's an interesting topic, and one for another forum. So that will all that will be said on this matter. As I used to write (gleefully, I might add!) in my previous business correspondence "no further correspondence will be entered into" :D I just hate the whole "what would you know, you're obviously not as smart as I am" style of argument that doesn't actually offer anything to back it up. If anyone wanted to counter a statement I've made then, everyone, please tell me *why* I'm wrong. Playing the "pah, I'm superior to you" card without actually showing me how one is superior is just...silly. That was actually the point of my (longwinded) posts. I apologise if that was also misinterpreted. Anyway, back on topic: Girl needs to take her doggy to a great behaviourist who'll diagnose her dog's behaviour issue correctly & will provide a training plan to suit the doggy. There are heaps of really good trainers on this forum that will be able to point her in the right direction, and I'm sure some of the training techniques linked to might actually play a part in the doggy rehab. Good luck!!

Awesome pix!!

Oh sweetie, just because I'm verbose don't go thinking that you've caused more than a mild frisson ;) Vets *do* have an idea, same as doctors, lawyers, accountants, & other professionals. These people have been specifically trained in their fields of expertise to be able to interpret results from clinical trials. Each & every one of these professionals, and I include dog trainers in the ranks of professionals, will agree with one thing: Forums & the internet are a great place to start for general information, but it's absolutely imperative that you seek professional face to face intervention & advice when needed. It's actually been said several times by each trainer I've seen posting here on the forums. That is probably the most invaluable advice they give. One of the things that I can't stand on forums is people who are posting with urgent cases (ie, my dog/cat/child/husband/guy I have tied up in my basement is bleeding profusely from the eyeballs,what should I do??????"), where invariably a whole bunch of posts come back with "WTF are you doing typing at a computer with this problem? Get your moronic arse into a car & go immediately to the vet/really adventurous vet with a lot of padding/pediatrician/dodgy doctor/late night STD clinic". Drives me nuts. I want to smack them around the head....but I'm a pacifist, and I digress, and probably giving far too much information as to what forums I frequent In regards to adults not being vaccinated...um, you're not exactly well travelled, are you? Adults get vaccinated all the time, especially travelling to remote places and certain parts of Africa/Asia/Middle East/South America. In fact, there's going to be an adult version of the gardisil vaccine going to be made available within the next few years. Do your research, and if you prefer cervical cancer to vaccination theories, then more power to you, sister. On a side note, I was vaccinated myself not two years ago when I almost sliced my finger off (V Slicer incident, v. gory), tetanus injection with VERY large HUMUNGOUS needle wielded by a rhymes-with-witch of a nurse. It hurt. A lot. Didn't even get a freaking lollipop. It's nice to see you laugh, even at my expense. For a moment there I thought you were one of those humourless crones...but I've been proven wrong once or twice before. ETA: I know :p , sorry RottnBullies

Aw shucks, I guess extending an olive branch to someone who is in such need to prove themselves is futile. You're right, it is my POV, and I was merely expressing it, as one is wont to do on a forum which, incidentally, provides information for (ta daaa) research purposes. Actually, you've made a few assumptions here, not in the least assuming how someone whom you don't know spends their time & resources on finding the best way to look after their pets. Isn't that the purpose of a forum such as this, and the reason as to why I, and so many others, would frequent it? You're correct though, I am a layperson in both dog health and dog behaviour management as I am not a practising veterinarian. For such matters, I have to defer to experts in such fields and, unless you have such qualifications, throwing such barbs as "you really don't know what you're talking about, & I do because I'm me and you're not" is counterproductive. Something more helpful like "actually MsJames, there have been numerous instances of tragic side effects due to vaccinations, here's a (helpful) link to an academic article I found to help you along your way", that opens up a nice debate does it not? Mudslinging and false senses of superiority, IMO, rarely achieve the desired purpose. Unless, that is, your desired purpose was to continue to have every small quotation on this matter hammered out for the whole forum to see. The truth is, I'll stick to my ground, & you will stick to yours. It's as simple as that. As previously mentioned, if you are indeed a qualified veterinarian, then please accept my apologies. This means you have spent years training and educating yourself to a level where you are able to interpret clinical results and extrapolate useful information from them. If not, and you have merely trawled the wonderful world wide web for information, under the guise of "research", then you are wasting my time. My assumption about you, is that you're a fan of internet research & word-of-mouth heresay evidence. But hey, that's my assumption about you, we're allowed to do that, right? Although the internet is a good tool for basic information, there is too much hysteria and misinformation on the web to provide a source for in-depth research unless, that is, you are reading academic papers published online and peer-reviewed. Anything else could be considered specious. Big word, I know. Look it up. I made an off the cuff remark that, if you actually look closely at the wording, was written in a facetious manner. I stand by what I believe in, and I initially backed that up with philosophical thought regarding the care of my children and how that correlated to the care of my pets. You inferred poor judgement and naivete on my behalf, at exactly what point did you furnish any evidence that my flippant remarks were untrue, other than to basically say I was an idiot? You can call me an idiot if you wish, but please do so in a manner which does not insult my intelligence.

I'm sorry, I struggle to see where this fits in or where I mentioned any frequency in vaccinations. Are you trying to make a point that you have superior knowledge of this issue, a degree in veterinary science perhaps? Do correct me if I'm wrong. I was hardly comparing humans to animals, merely trying to illustrate a point that one should provide the same level of care and attention to their pets as they would their children. Re: hatch closing (I'm assuming you have a hatchback or 4WD, I couldn't imagine you shoving your dogs in a sedan boot mafia-style), I understand that closing quickly & slamming are two different things. Where you would have the agility to close something quickly, I would be slamming. I did mention previously (twice, in fact), that I was clumsy. I do wish you'd understand that, it's not an easy admission to make that you're the type of person that can't control their gross motor skills. Apples & oranges. Can we not agree to disagree, without getting everyone's collective hackles up and resorting to point-by-point post assassination?

Have you researched the pro's and con's of yearly vaccination after puppyhood to allow you to make that comment? You wouldn't not vaccinate your child on the off chance that the vaccination would have ill effect. The same goes for your pets, vaccinating against a disease and possibly having an unwelcome outcome is outweighed by the probability of dealing with the disease you haven't vaccinated against. There are risks with everything you put in your body, your child's body, your pet's body. Do you not take an antibiotic for a bacterial infection because statistics gathered in the clinical trials of a drug showed that a small percentage of individuals suffered negative side effects? No, you take your chances knowing that, as I said, the benefits far outweigh the ill effects. It's a tragedy when vaccinations and drug intolerances take a life, but that doesn't necessarily mean there should be a blanket ban on vaccinations. IMO, his methods are harsh for the average family pet. There are better ways to show leadership in family pets (and NOT overly aggressive & dominant dogs) that don't require you to teach your dog through humiliating techniques. In my book, forever (and good on you for taking that literally, btw) means time, patience, & commitment. Every trainer I've ever spoken to has emphasised that there are no quick fixes, just time, consistency, and good leadership - probably the only thing trainers agree on! We had two dominant dogs in the home, not due to being spoilt, simply bad leadership & lack of proper socialisation on the behalf of their previous owners. It took *forever*, but we've managed to get them to curb their antisocial behaviour within the home. Like I said, I'm a clumsy person (there was no reading between the lines needed in that statement) - slamming the boot shut on my dog? With my dumb luck his tail would have been caught & we'd be making a nice emergency trip to the vet hospital down the road instead of chasing seagulls at the beach. But that's my luck. Not your luck. That's gotta be stressed. I'd hate to know that my dog learnt a lesson simply because I hurt him. Those methods don't work for me, I can't afford the vet bills

Um, I think for my nature his methods might be a bit ... harsh, there are other ways to foster good pack structure with time & commitment. Take, for example, his trapping the dog's head through the door - setting them up to fail - we use a modified version of this with pretty much the same result (the dogs won't go through the door before us): we put them in a sit, then open the door a titch & if their bum gets off the ground by even a micrometre the door shuts and does not open again until they're calm & sitting again. It might take forever to inch the door more & more & being able to set a foot outside before you free them, but at least you're not shutting the door on their head. As a layperson, to me that just smacks of someone wanting to humiliate their dog - but who am I to say. Besides, knowing my clumsy luck there'd be a great big bloody gust of wind slamming the door harder & practically decapitating the poor thing! Anyway, my two cents is that these techniques might be a bit heavy handed for someone who just wants a family pet. I agree with his philosophy of the dog only looking to you for gratification though. He does make some good points, even if they're not really my style when it comes for caring for my pet. And his stance on vaccination. No vacs???? That's just crazy talk! ETA: Besides, he makes a lot of spelling & grammatical mistakes on his website. Sorry, I'm just a grammar nazi :D E(again)TA: I am, however, exempt from this grammar naziness. I can use however many run-on sentences & parentheses as I wish because I wear glasses & therefore look smart

We've got a doggy aggressive dog as well, and when we go to the vet I go into the surgery first to let them now I'm there (they know Roggie's antisocial behaviour well by now!) if the coast is clear, I can get Roggie & go straight through, if not, they let me go through a side entrance & go straight to a consult room. Vets understand doggy issues all too well, so they're only happy to help if you need a little assistance. Make sure you let them know when you ring up for an appointment. Hope your guy is feeling better soon!

Roggie (BC x ACD) is about 24 kg, he gets 2 cups dry food. Bella (BC x Kelpie) is about 19kg gets about 1 3/4 cups. We supplement with chicken frames every other day, and they get food scraps (bad, I know!) if we have some leftover steamed veges (they looooooooooooooooooooove broccoli & mushrooms!) & meat if the skin pack hasn't gnawed every last piece of gristle!

You could do what works for me in weight gain: walk him past the biccie aisle at the supermarket & just watch 3 kilos pile onto my behind!

Awww Jennifer, he's adorabubble! Good luck with the training

My girl Bella does exactly the same thing when I take Roggie out for a walk - I have to walk them separately because, if together, it's a competition to see who can yank my arm out of its socket the fastest. If i take Bella first, Roggie has absolutely no problem and will happily be distracted by a pig ears. When Roggie goes out & Bella has to stay behind, there's whining & carrying on & "look at meeeee! Pay attention to MEEEEEE!"...no amount of piggy ears can ease the pain of being left behind!