Andisa

If you can manage the chicken wire around the fences yourself it will be much easier if you get the netting clips and pliers (avail at bunnings or farm supplies). I bought them to attach bedding to the metal frame beds and to join the bunnings compost wires together when I made a huge rabbit enclosure. Cheap and easy to use. Like these http://www.farmerswarehouse.com.au/home.php?cat=306

This describes Pink, the others do it sometimes but she is a shocker for it - the look on her face is so sweet. When I was rehoming Maddy (a 10 mo Rottie bitch) she chose her new family - the moment she looked up at him and the laid down beside him resting her head on his steel capped boots that was it. We all just had a giggle as he said "well that's it - she has to come home with me now"... and she did. Funny this was, Maddy was my girl and while she was good with people she was weary of large men - she chose a man who was a solid build and over 6' - and even though his wife loves her - she is still his girl.. ed - sp?

LOVE IT!

lol - when my hubby bought his new car he made sure it had leather seats - the dogs are never in his car - I have only driven it ONCE and been in it less than 6 times and there is still some dog hair in it. Can't avoid it - he won't even give me a key to his car I got his old car and have placed sheets on the seats but as you know hair still gets in to everything. I was going to sell my wagon but we have kept it for the dogs . As for dog hair on clothing :eek: ....

I can comment on this from personal experience. I had a Dane Foster turn up that had been on a Halter as she would get over stimulated and lunge at things that excited her.......she was at the Chiro every week and on pain killers because of the damage that was caused by her being on a halter +/- incorrect handling of the Halter. If she were on a prong it would have been a different story, I ended up training her on a check chain because of the public dismay towards the prong I couldn't have re-homed her trained on one, which was a shame. I have seen diffifult to manage Danes on Halters that make me cringle. Those who actually understand the use of Prongs that are used correctly understand they are a more gentle tool than checking a dog on a check chain, I personaly have a dog that ends up with a red neck and brusing from a check chain and that's not from constant checking, yet on a prong there are no skin irritations or bruising (for us) because it is a more gentle tool because you don't have to apply hard corrections etc. I wonder what people feel about the Neck Tech collars vs the Prong? Glad you put that pic up MEH - it is a much more appealing collar and perhaps it would make difference in some peoples views. Q - I would "assume" the Neck Tech collar would have the much same affect (correct me if I am wrong I have never seen or held one) as a PP collar.

How could it be far more dangerous if the PP collar is also causing a reaction? Read my whole sentence.. No matter what experience the experienced handler has - not all dogs will react the same. Even the best and most experienced trainers will still get a dog that makes them think twice, they may even cop a bite or two. A tough dog requires tough handling to get through to them, lets also think about the safety of the handler too. A flat collar or choke collar will be friggen useless and far more dangerous than a PP collar. I would like to think the handlers safety should be a high priority. I suppose the alternative is to just kill the dog instead of using a collar that gets results . Steve has answered your Q above. Lets be grateful that there are still trainers out there like Steve who is prepared to put themselves on the line to save screwed up dogs - why do you want to take away their rights to use tools that help make their job easier and safer?

I see what you are saying and agree but I've been to quite a few seminars, handled many dogs with other training aids on, a lot more than 3 times, and have had one dog react with me on a no pull harness, the dog was fully loaded so I wasn't surprised. Neither of the two dogs in the examples that reacted were loaded. The experienced trainer is highly regarded and has been an advocate of prongs for many years so you would assume that the trainer would know how to use the collar correctly. No matter what experience the experienced handler has - not all dogs will react the same. Even the best and most experienced trainers will still get a dog that makes them think twice, they may even cop a bite or two. A tough dog requires tough handling to get through to them, lets also think about the safety of the handler too. A flat collar or choke collar will be friggen useless and far more dangerous than a PP collar.

Just a thought on a refund - when the dog was sold to a pet home, who kept the money, if you did and they won't agree to another pup then perhaps you can at least get the difference in the purchase price and the pet price of the pup and start looking for another dog. There is little comfort in being told "forget about and move on, put it down to experience". You do move on but you don't forget.

If I were you I would be talking with the breeder instead of on a forum to find out what has changed their minds - perhaps they have heard something that they were not comfortable with - not saying this is the case but you need to talk with them. Can I ask why you didn't have the dog tested first before desexing, he was only young and inexperienced. Personally I feel he was not given a decent chance to prove himself and now you will never know if he actually had swimmers or not. Good luck - I would not be impressed either, I hope things can be sorted out better than it has been.

yep. the first test is an easy one .. and will certainly tell you if the dog is producing swimmers . "going thru the motions" may just mean he is inexperienced and needs help ..or it may mean the bitches weren't ready/ The bitches were well and truly ready, the point is the breeder that bred him classed him as a non breeder as apparently it is in her lines, she told me to get rid of him and he would be replaced with different lines, the breeder in question told me she would replace him in writing and now has turned around and said she is not, the question I am asking is, If you promised a purchaser of one of your dogs that you bred ,that you would replace the dog in question , then turn around 8 months later and say no, when the dog has already been desexed and gone to a pet home on the breeders advice Hang on, you just said the the person concerned said to get rid of the dog and it would be replaced. Have you got of rid of the dog ?. Lots of breeders ask that the the dog be de sexed and when you give proof of the de sexing they let you keep the dog then replace or sometimes they ask for the return of the dog then replace. Maybe it may be best if you return the dog and receive another. Looks like the dog has already been desexed and placed in a pet home on the breeders advice and Jay57 was expecting another dog as a replacement - now the breeder has gone back on their word. Is this right? Personally I would have had the dog tested and given him time to mature before desexing and rehoming. I wonder if the breeder had changed their mind on you having the lines for some reason - seems strange to me. *posted at the same time as the OP.

Yes - I have heard that he is very difficult to deal with. Yrs ago I tried to by a stack of his books for clients he never replied back to me (several calls and emails) and I asked the Vic distributor ( I used to be a distributor for Dr B) to buy them in for me but I never got them, she was unable to buy them in too. I gave up in the end it was just too hard to buy the books from them so I told people to buy the books at the book shop. I am now with Big Dog Barf (original manufactures of Dr B's Barf) and they are fantastic to deal with.. Personally I think Billinghurst will destroy his own company if he refuses to learn customer service, he doesn't have to be great - just have manners and treat enquiries with the respect they deserve - after all they are wanting to spend money on his products. A mouthful of abuse and he can get stuffed, hardly an incentive to give him anything again.

Skip a meal or two and she will look differently at the bone ;) :D ETA: when Hamish came back home at 15 mo his teeth were in disgusting condition, he had been on kibble for 10 months and it showed. He lacked interest in the raw diet when he came back, I was pulling my hair out over this dog and he was loosing weight - I bought a bag of RC that he had been on and he still did not want that. Anyway after sitting down with him calling him all sorts of names for making me feel like I am failing him one day he got hungry and ate. He hasn't looked back since. In fact he has gone from the dog who would happily walk away from the others if food was being offered to holding his ground making sure he will not miss out. Good luck - she will get there when she is ready.

No doubt I would have met you out the back when toileting her if she was not using the pen, she can take anything from 15 - 30 mins to toilet her on lead or she will get it done within minutes in the pen. Other pug owners use it too - I'm surprised that you haven't seen at least one pug in it I plan on giving her a couple of months off from the ring but when we go back you will see the next pen padlocked around a tree .

You should loan Andisa a grumpy Rottie to put in the next pen. Don't feed it for a few days beforehand OK? B@stards!!! - Stolz dogs have more manners than mine when crated especially at shows. Mine are only used to being crated at home and can be a bit loud when crated some where else. I am taking one for a visit next weekend to the show, just hope that he/she behaves or we will be going home sooner rather than later. Don't think that Group 1 owners or dogs would be ready for one of my treasures if placed in their toileting area.

Reading over this thread and thought I should say sorry for my um, bad language - I was a "touch" annoyed when I wrote it . And yes Stolz, I was even worse when I was I first walked out the back to see it gone . Clyde - I think I could have wrote "suck" instead of **** - what did you think I meant :D I have heaps of these pens at home that I used for a massive rabbit enclosue, he is long gone now and they come in handy as a temp pen for puppies and the pugs and great to block off the garden. I have got another pen ready to go but having a break for a while which was already planned. Not only will I be buying a bike lock but I will also be tying the clips on to the side of the pen too - hopefully the next one will be safe enough then :rolleyes: . Luckily for me it was not an expensive pen and at the end of the day I feel sorry for the person who acted out of selfishness and stupidity, who has shown their true colors to steal from another exhibitor. It also makes you wonder how many other items that they have possible collected over the years belonging to others. Since I have been showing (not long) I am also down a pair of rivers shoes and a retractable lead, friends have lost jackets, shoes and several good leads and collars - goes to show that nothing is safe. Any way just popped back in to apologise for my "little" outburst and to remind everyone to keep an eye on your things

Ditto. : I can't believe that anyone would use it without asking either, I keep poo bags tied on the pen to make pick up easier, each time I went out there some more would be missing. No - there was still plenty of action and lots of people around when it grew legs - I went to the sec office and let them know, they did a call out over the speaker to ask if anyone grabbed it by "accident" but naturally nothing came out of it. There was not a hope in hell that it was taken by accident, it was stolen. A friend did leave one there once but we expected it to be gone by the next show and sure enough it was - but this would have been taken by someone close to the area - most likely a group 1 exhibitor who was leaving straight after group 1 finished and took it out the back way so they were not seen in the shed. They pulled at the pen until the cable ties fell off to pack it up to take it away - I found the cable ties on the ground where the pen was. I was actually going to buy one of the C Crates for toileting the dogs - had it been one of those that went missing I am sure the whole of Cranbourne (and beyond) would have heard me screaming.

I was thinking the same but was going to say "Toto"

A warning to everyone at the shows keep an eye on all your things or some bastard will steal it.. After Grp 1 had finished I went to toilet Charli (Pug) outside in the toileting pen that I set up in the same place every show - however I was too late. Some thieving bastard decided to help themselves. The pen was set up just outside the door at the group 1 ring. It was a wire bunnings compost bin with an extra panel making it in to a 5 sided pen. It used to be closed with clips until they were stolen at a show at Bulla about a month ago, so I have been using cable ties to close it. I went to get the nail clippers to cut the cable ties and the friggen pen was already gone. Now - I have accepted that others were actually using the pen when the poo bags kept disappearing but I honestly did not expect someone to stoop so low as to steal the pen. I think that someone was probably keeping an eye on us while their partner in crime was stealing it. Funny thing is I was joking with friends that I will be putting a sign on the pen asking those who are using the poo bags to please feel free to replace them - I did not think for one minute that someone would be such a prick and help themselves to the pen and not just the bags. If anyone knows who stole it please let me know or if they actually get a conscience then please return the pen to the secretaries office at KCC Park with Andisa Pugs written on the pen, I would really like to have it back. My next pen will either be set up inside from now on (with a tarp and paper to protect the floor) or it will be locked with a bike lock against a tree with a laminated note to please leave the friggen thing there. So just a warning to keep your belongings close to you because it is obvious that there are some who simply can not be trusted. Ok vent over - but shit I am pissed off edited - spelling..

This is a great shot! I'm expecting him to have a laugh like mutley for some reason :D exactly what I was thinking... Classic photo - just love it - Love the look on his face. I have been very lucky with minimal damage but nothing is as good as these pics. best part is - NONE are mine. :D

^^ me too

Sigh.. you hope people don't really do things like this. It's so dishonest, imagine if you unknowingly used a dog like this over your bitch in the hopes of getting a nice dog to keep, you may have problems there and have now bred an issue into your lines. Rumors have to start from somewhere, but not all are just rumors.

I know of dogs who have a little spell from the ring to allow for surgery to locate and bring down a testicle and once they have recovered - out they come. As for stud duties well it is only rumors so who really knows ;). eta: personally if I was to learn that a dog required surgery to bring his nuts down I would walk away.

Everything went well, she is home and much brighter than I was expecting. I did get the pain meds and have her ears cleaned, swabbed and got cream for an ear infection. She has an enlarged teat, not related to breeding (only bred twice and raised 6 pups). She had a skin allergy early in the yr and made a mess of the teat scratching it, they asked if I wanted the teat removed. I spoke with her new owners and told them that while it is fine now it "may" change later on but they were happy to leave it alone for now and deal with it in future if needed. Vet was happy to leave it alone since it has been improving on it's own, just suggested removal to make her look better (+ $ ;) ). So all up it was just under $250 - I am still very happy with that, especially since she came trotting out of the surgery as if nothing has happened.

No - it would not have made any difference for me, it would be on their books what I go in for and some things are related to procedures that have been done elsewhere, so no loyalty to one vet clinic. Depends on what needs to be done. And Pink was injured at the pool when she was only 5 months old, I certainly could have been more polite than what I was they were very good about it and did xrays for no cost to me to make sure that she was fine. They might have some "interesting" notes on my acct details