ShellyBeggs

what a shame......!!!! I wish I could take her but OH would have a fit at 5 dogs! She is just gorgeous and looks like a real character........I am working hard on a guy here at work who is thinking about a kelpie for some sheep work. But he is about to become a daddy so maybe getting a pup is on the back burner.... I will keep talking her up though....

I do agree with you on this Amhailte.....and in some cases I have seen recently it has been entirely hypocritical... A friend of mine is a 'positive' only person with her dogs....I doubt she would even frown at her dogs, let alone growl at them.....and yet when I was there the other week her son (2yo) went to touch the hot oven door and as she saw it out of the corner of her eye she yelled very loudly at him "no" then went and smacked him lightly on the hand and told him that "you know you cant touch the oven, its burnies". Her son cried for a few seconds, saw it wasn't getting any attention, so grabbed a car off the floor and wandering off to play as though nothing had happened I asked her why she had "corrected" her son.....and she said because if he doesn't learn he would burn himself..... When asked why she smacked him she said because they had been telling him off for months and it wasn't working so her hubby and her had decided to esculate the "correction" to include a light smack. I pointed out that one day her dog might do something that could injure itself......and maybe if she corrected this behaviour now it might prevent it..... Her answer was....."I wouldn't yell at my dogs, I use positive reinforcement only" :p I know dogs and kids are not the same......and I am not implying dogs should be smacked, or kids for that matter (before I get an earfull off someone) ......but her theory seems a bit odd! BTW she has a 3yo shep that jumps on her all the time, she doesn't say anything but when it eventually sits (by that time she is muddy or scratched) she gives it a treat.....so it jumps on her again then sits, and gets another treat.....the dog will do this constantly because it thinks if it jumps up then sits, it will get a treat. SO without the correction she is consistantly rewarding the bad behaviour as the dog sees the whole action as what it is being rewarded for.

Thanks Mrs D and Jesomil.....Its a bit hard to dog proof farm fencing.....he can fit through the ringlock fencing and can slip under the gate.....I think I would almost need cyclone fencing all around and that is a bit ridiculously expensive and would upset the roos and wombats! I also have 5 acres so he gets all day of free running on the weekend.....and with 2 others dogs to run with, 1 of which is a very speedy bc....and it was late on the weekend that he was looking to slip off. On the weekend he also swims in the dam with the other dogs for more than an hour or so.....even in this cold weather. I also did training with him for 30 min (then his attention wandered so it wasn't worth it), about an hour of ball flinging and he spent a few hours running up to bark at the trailbikes roaring past then runs back down (200m or so up the steep hill) and then a minute later back up to bark.....(we dont like the motorbikes and they would ride on the property if the dogs weren't there to bark) We go to obedience but its only every second sunday. If he cant be getting tired after 2 hr brisk walk and 10hour free running with all those activities.......what will tire him out??? I would love to get some sheep for him to work but I worry that the bc wouldn't leave them alone...... Also during the weekend I get home in the dark and he won't go out because the older dogs wont go out.....as he wants to be with them...so I am stuck playing for hours everynight with him. If I do put him out he just sits on the doorstep....and if I put them all out they all just sit on the doorstep. So on the weekends he really lets loose running outside. Anyways.....as he sniffed the breeze everytime before disappearing I was thinking that maybe there is a bitch in heat somewhere and he is off to sow his manly oats??? although maybe a little young?? and hence the idea that the snip snip could be the answer. I have been working more on leadership and the triangle......he seems to be back to his old good self, could be that he is inside and when outside there are too many temptations. Grrrr teenagers!

***reposting from behaviour/training forum to get more help*** Hi everyone.... Its always been my preference to let my boys grow up a bit before they go get desexed....usually around 18mo. however this weekend Anzac my 7mo kelpie has decided he wants to go wandering.....in the past when he has headed toward the gate or fenceline I have given a whistle and he has come straight back happy as larry.....this weekend he would turn and look at me and then keep going. He was nearly run over twice and followed a car 3km up the road. He is also displaying other bad teenage behaviour........not sitting when told, not coming when called, not eating his meal, refusing treats, more destructive than ever, yanked so hard on the lead that he broke his leather collar (and almost my arm) and now a simple Arghhhh isn't enough to stop his naughty behaviour or thoughts of naughty behaviour..where before it was...I now have to get up and go to him to stop him climbing on tables/benches or up the wall unit. He is getting plenty of exercise.....(even after a 2hr brisk walk he still came back full of naughty thoughts) and lots of interaction and attention of which he is choosing to ignore..... so do I go against what I usually do and send him in for a snip snip......or try and ride out the naughty teenage behaviour???? any other thoughts on his sudden behaviour swing? or another option is to lock him in a bedroom with the lights out and play loud heavy metal music and get him a tattoo and nose ring to go with his 'bad' teenage attitude ???

Thanks wheres my rock..... I am a long way from KCC......thanks anyway! I hope training on Sunday can enlighten the problem.....if not I may need to resort to the 'olde' methods for a bit and put him in the position.....until he understands what I want.

Hi everyone.... Its always been my preference to let my boys grow up a bit before they go get desexed....usually around 18mo. however this weekend Anzac my 7mo kelpie has decided he wants to go wandering.....in the past when he has headed toward the gate or fenceline I have given a whistle and he has come straight back happy as larry.....this weekend he would turn and look at me and then keep going. He was nearly run over twice and followed a car 3km up the road. He is also displaying other bad teenage behaviour........not sitting when told, not coming when called, not eating his meal, refusing treats, more destructive than ever, yanked so hard on the lead that he broke his leather collar (and almost my arm) and now a simple Arghhhh isn't enough to stop his naughty behaviour or thoughts of naughty behaviour..where before it was...I now have to get up and go to him to stop him climbing on tables/benches or up the wall unit. He is getting plenty of exercise.....(even after a 2hr brisk walk he still came back full of naughty thoughts) and lots of interaction and attention of which he is choosing to ignore..... so do I go against what I usually do and send him in for a snip snip......or try and ride out the naughty teenage behaviour???? any other thoughts on his sudden behaviour swing? or another option is to lock him in a bedroom with the lights out and play loud heavy metal music and get him a tattoo and nose ring to go with his attitude

Thanks Zeds Mum.....I am looking forward to training days...just wish they were more often! Its just frustrating that he doesn't seem to get it......and the food luring doesn't seem to work on him with anything!

Still no luck.......he just doesn't get it. He gets annoyed he can't get the treat when I try luring him down and so he just looses interest. I can't even get him to lure the front half down ........I have him on a lead at least so he can't run off now. He seems to go...."oh this game, you want let me have the treat so I am not going to pay any attention.....I look there is a spot on the wall" He doesn't have a very high food drive........which is hard work for me having only ever trained piggies that would do anything for a piece of cheese or kabana.

Expect to learn a lot.....and to feel enthusiastic about trying everything all at once..... The thing to remember is to make it fun.....make it fun for you and your pup! It shouldn't be a chore. Take some treats and a toy...... I would suggest getting there a smidge early so you and pup can have a little walk around and get comfortable with your surroundings...even if you can only walk around the carpark or the street. And remember that the only dumb question there is....is the one you don't ask. Good luck and have fun!!!!

Just when Erny tries to bring the conversation out of the gutter, um kennel, um....mmmm!!!

My line of thought, when I had read this, was in agreement with what I have previously found - ie the earlier in the dog's behaviour that you apply a correction, the less a correction needs to be, to be as equally effective. For an "obedience" example - dog in a down-stay. A verbal correction for it bringing its elbows off the ground. The verbal correction is less likely to be as effective if the owner's timing waits until the dog is fully up. For a "behaviour" example - dog just becoming "still" in the presence of another dog. A verbal correction may well be sufficient whereas an owner waiting for the dog to eye-ball and then even progress into its reaction, the verbal is quite possibly not going to be enough for the dog to quit its behaviour or to even take it on board as a negative to the behaviour. (Disclaimer: Not a good example, as I won't necessarily use a correction for this behavioural response - much depends on the dog and whether it sports 'issues'.) This is the way I read Cesar's comment about corrections and if I am reading it correctly, then it is something I agree with. Although I probably would have worded it differently. I usually say that the earlier you correct a dog through the course of its unwanted behaviour, the less the correction needs to be to be effective. I am now wondering if that's what he meant though. ETA: IMO, Cesar was referencing to "effective" corrections, not "nagging" (ie ineffective) corrections. Although I would have thought that for a correction to be effective, it would need to be slightly higher than the intent of the dog's behaviour for it to think twice the next time around. So my next question would be how does Cesar measure a dog's intensity of behaviour and equate that to "same" intensity of correction? I think I read this the same way......it isn't very clear in his book either (which I read yesturday).....but I still think he means the same thing. It worked for me last night.......Anzac was about to jump on the table and I gave him a "argh" before he even got his feet off the floor....I could see he was thinking about doing it. He gave me a "you spoil all my fun" look and wandered off to pounce on a tennisball. Usually I don't correct him until his feet are on the table and then an "Argh" isn't enough and it usually requires a much bigger growl and sometimes for me to go towards him. I suppose this requires a lot more reading of body language and anticipation than waiting to the deed is done and then correcting.....but seems to work!

;) well.... I am upto page 81 of the 183 pages and loving the book! So many things he says makes sense........ If anyone wants to borrow it pm me! Cheers!!!

hehehehe.....nope $4 off ebay (paid with paypal) got link to download plus heaps of bonus extras.....ebooks on dog training, dog treats, obedience basics.... Sure beats the $25 at A&R....

I am downloading the book right now..... I know I cant resell it.....but what about loaning the electronic file to someone (no different to lending out a book) ???????????

Yeppers its on 5.30 on the Bio channel. I am not home to watch it...tape it when I remember! But missed most of them...... I would love to get the DVDs

Where did you get these from???

I am trying to lure him slowly......but not too slowly as he loses interest very quickly! His reaction to most things I try and do with him is to run backwards out of arms reach into a 'bow' position with his tail (whole bum) wiggling furiously like a cat ready to pounce. If I then ignore him and walk away he stalks me/herds me...... I know I need a haircut but I am not that sheep looking. If I go and sit down and totally ignore him.....he sits close by, very proud and upright like he has herded me into the yard and he is keeping me there. He does the same thing with the other dogs when they go lay on their mat....acts like he has herded them there and he watches them to make sure they dont move or get off. I am trying to ignore this behaviour without correcting it.....as I want to try herding later! Rotten herding dog!

Sorry but I have nothing to video tape it with.........not even my mobile after he ate the flap off it and drooled on it. When ever I get the lead out he does zoomies thinking he is going for a walk, a ride in the ute or to puppy school!!! But I might try a bit of rope (ie/ its a lead without being a lead)....and see if I can stop him scooting backwards!!! The stupid thing is, towards the end of the class on Sunday he kept dropping of his own accord because he was so tired......as he does this, is it ok to give the command "drop" and treat.....even though he is instigating it himself????

He doesn't get it!! When I don't let him get the treat straight away when I show it to him....... He either scoots backwards and barks at me to get the treat.... or looses interest, looks at me like I am stupid and runs off ! I did get him into the bow position once and as soon as I put my hand near his hips he flopped over on his back for a belly rub and when i wouldn't give him one he scratched his back on the carpet (serious upside down wiggling) Any ideas?

Mine eat pork bones too.......love hocks and trotters! I would try your dog on one....and one only and observe for 24 hours, especially look for any change in bowel habits. If ok after 24 hours I would continue to introduce slowly.....be logical about it, it doesn't have to be a all or nothing approach (if you have the space can you freeze some bones) Like all things, a sudden change in diet can cause tummy upsets......... p.s you are just as likely to get trich on other meats incl. beef and I would be more concerned with salmonella on raw chicken which is more likely.

I cook something similair 5kg pet mince or chicken pet mince 0.5kg rice Approx 0.5kg mixed vegies (what is ever in the house but no cauly/broc due to gas or onions....even cheap mix frozen veg if nothing else) 1tbs of garlic 1/2 cup instant milk powder (the one with added calcium and low fat) 1 cup quick cook oats Sometimes add gravy or beef stock to make it a bit different ....or feed with sardines, or a raw egg on top every now and then. Make it moister if you want it to soak through any kibble. I freeze it in portions in those cheap takeaway type containers. This is dinner for 3 dogs for the week.....But that said......I also feed lots of raw meaty bones for breaky and kibble during the day. Yep the rice and oats is a filler so cut back if worried about lack of nutrients or feeding small/med dogs or overweight dogs.....but dogs need carbs for energy too (just like people but not as much % wise) and the oats make it thick and creamy.....and stick together! Been feeding this to my dogs for 20+ years (rotti, GSD, Dobe, Corgi X, lab, bc, kelpie) and never had any problems with health! (other than old age). And they have all loved it. The raw diet is prolly more the 'fad' these days as the 'cooked stew' was years back as Blos334 said.........I like a mixture of both and I think in this cold weather they appreciate this stew, nicely warmed in the microwave before being served.

Super big congrats to Leo the superdog!!! He is such an :D Oh and Amanda too! :D We are not worthy :D

I agree with Erny..... Maybe you could suggest to your bf that they lock the dobe up in the meantime...... I am sure your bf's parents don't want this biting to esculate and all the ramifications because of it...

Thanks LP! I will give it a go.....!!! Don't know how I can stop him wiggling so much......as soon as my hands go near him he just wiggles and wiggles and wiggles (gotta love puppy wiggles just not during training) Yeppers I did have stuff to do....but that all went pearshaped when my car broke down.........so no aussie pup yet!

Hi everyone.... In the past in obedience we only ever taught beginners to drop from a sit position. Then once they knew what drop ment, in intermediate drop from a stand was introduced (but not complusory). It may have been my downfall because when trialling my lab would rarely drop from a stand but when given the command would sit first...he did it all in one nice fluid motion (sit then walk his feet forward into the drop). In my new obedience club they prefer to teach from a stand right from the start. I have never done this before. What is the best way to teach it? Thanks heaps! Shelly