ShellyBeggs

Don't you....??? It was a fair few years ago now but I have seen inspectors at KCC park during an obedience trial!!!

Great post Rom.... I also wonder why some people, and especially the RSPCA see things as either black or white; all or nothing. It doesn't have to be all positive and it doesn't have to be all corrections/punishment. I think there can be balance of positive&correction for the training of each dog and that this ratio can vary between individual dogs. You can most certainly correct a dog without causing any physical or psycological damage, just like you can a toddler. I mean if kids were dogs, the RSPCA would have that Super Nanny on TV locked away.....because even time out is a corrective punishment.

I agree with Mark totally.....and what Tony and Erny have said here. My kelpie is not food or toy driven......and he needs rules and consequences and he likes to push boundaries! Not only does positive only training not work with him.....but having had him around someone who previously worked at the RSPCA, she says he wouldn't even pass their behaviour tests because he is too interested and excited by cats and large animals....but mainly because they check for response to positive training which he would fail. ........he is a herding breed, isn't agressive but has a high chase drive but low food/toy drive. I think for a kelpie he is quite well balanced compared to a lot out there I have seen going feral at everything....but in the hands of the RSPCA he would be PTS and the main basis is that he isn't responsive enough to positive training.......and he chases things (which is what he is bred to do so a giant DER to the RSPCA). The RSPCA makes out that using anything but positive training is the equivalent to beating the dog with a baseball bat. And that isn't true at all.......I have even been told by the RSPCA that the use of a correction chain is cruel. It can be in the wrong hands, but if used correctly can be a wonderful tool. Like raising kids, it should be about the right balance for a particular dog. No dog responds the same and so training tools can't be the same for every dog. I was refused a rescue from an RSPCA because when I commented that I would take the dog to my obedience club, and she asked me on a chain, and I responded that it was a requirement of the club that all dogs wore correction chains (as it was back then). The women told me that was a cruel device and I wasn't fit to own a dog. I explained that I had already obedience trained 2 dogs who were never effected by the wearing of a correction chain and that when I had walked this boy around the property on the flat collar he had on, he almost ripped my arm out of the socket and that obedience was really what he needed. I was told that I needed a more positive training approach before I could get a RSPCA rescue. I left upset and disgusted...... 1 week later this beautful boy was pts, when I enquired I was told it was due to him being unruly and uncontrolable on lead and they didn't think he was rehomable. I think the RSPCA needs to get off their high horse, and get out there trying some of their positive only techniques in real life situations......without the safety net of "pts".

I dont feed much dry food.... but something to think about

thanks for that....i had never heard of it!

Hi mate......thanks for posting this. Someone at Kepala told me they knew of something to blacken the pigment on Ranger's nose and would PM me........ now I know it is kelp! I will start him on it too........although maybe on the powder from the produce store, I imagine it would work out cheaper. I used to give my black lab a heaped teasspoon of livermol (which is kelp based) and a tablespoon of seaweed kelp everyday.......and it never effected him. Did keep his coat pitch black until he was about 9yo. Works great to darken colour on horses too, especially chestnuts that sunbleach! So just watch it on your baby, it may darken his coat! cheers!!!

Dunno what its called but I used to buy 'purple' spray stuff for the horses and my GSD had bad problems with his ears. You buy it from feed stores! Works a treat!

I walk both my dogs together.....and we walk on a release. I used to try and get them to heel but that seemed to engage their drive and the race was on who could be in front. While walking on release they don't seem to compete with each other and are happy to sniff and look around rather than race. They can walk where ever they like as long as they do not pull the lead. If they pull I stop....they are not getting there any fast by pulling. When I stop the usually stop and look back....take a few steps towards me and when they do we walk off again. It only took 2 days for them to work out that pulling = stopping and I must say they are very good at using the length of the lead (without pulling) to maximum advantage. It must look like there is no control with dogs crisscrossing sniffing and not in heel.......but in fact I feel I have more control as we are all relaxed and they are not competing with me trying to force the heel. They are also more eager to listen if I tell them to sit or come etc..... I also find walking a bit faster......keeping them moving a bit faster helps stop the pulling too. next we are graduating to a bike....

PM sent.....I can't wait!

satin balls worked for me.... so did adding gravy or bonox (its the yeast - same as vegimite) maybe try changing your feed bowl.....might not like metal or plastic or what ever one you are using. Eating off a person plate always makes it more special. But hand feeding makes them feel loved and special and they do tend to eat more. I made dinner time training time and he never realised he was eating his dinner.

Sounds like fun..... can I come?

my lab used to get them all the time at this time of year. It must have been an allergy to a grass or pollen .......or something. I used to give him a periactin tablet every morning (its a antihistamine) that you buy from the chemist for about $7. You have to ask for it. He was about 50kg, so I imagine adjust to 1/2 tablet for smaller dogs. So he was on them every Sept thu to the end of Feb and never got a hot spot again!

Ooh - and an Aussie! No-one can live without an Aussie :rofl: Nope and you cant stop at 1 either..........

Ok I have my boys....Anzac (11mo) and Ranger (17mo)......both herding breeds and very exciteable. I now also have 2 x 10wo kittens.... The kittens are in the bathroom so there is much sniffing under the door.......and sometimes the kittens are in the hallway and the dogs can see them through glass. (the kittens try and attack them through the glass). What is the best way to introduce the kittens to the dogs without any excitement and fuss. I realise the kittens need to be a fair bit older and bigger ......but if I can start the process now and work slowly that may stop the dogs excitement and obsession with the kittens. my idea so far....crate kittens and let dogs be around them until they are 'boring'...but when they get out and start running around they will be all interesting again so my plan is flawed. Thanks for the help!

The boys have gone without a walk more than a few times because they won't sit and wait nicely to get their leads on (they hype each other up)....without calm sitting the leads get put away for 5-10 minutes......I only give them 3 chances and then its banned for the night.....so no walk. Even my mum is amazed at how well they sit, head extended waiting for their chain and lead.....while her dogs almost turn inside out jumping around. Dogs are very clever at working out what to do to achieve the best results!

You can read about the triangle at the top of the training/obedience/dog sports forum....its a pinned topic! NILF....nothing in life is free. The dog doesn't get a pat, food or a treat or anything at all unless it does something to earn that privledge. Consistancy is the key and getting everyone in the family to follow the rules can be tough......but the dog learns that it relies on you for everything and that it only gets what it wants/needs by giving you the required behaviour. for example my dogs don't get a pat until they have calmed down and are laying on their bed, then I call one at a time for "cuddle time" if the other dog gets up then it has to start the process over again, and has to go back calmly and wait. It doesn't get the reward by getting up, by being out of a calm state or by pushing. SO the rule at my house is the leader will pat who the leader wants to and when the leader wants to and only being calm and patient will earn that right. Its tough, but there has been many a night my kelpie has gone without cuddle time because he will not follow the rule. Guaranteed the next night he is the first in the door and on his bed trying his hardest......because attention from the leader is a much sort after thing.....it is the ultimate prize to the member of the pack. So its easy to bring NILF into your everyday life.....even just sit before a pat, drop before I throw the ball, wait before you eat your dinner, sit calm by the door to get your lead on for a walk.......etc.... Its easiest to pick the reward (cuddle time) and what you want the dog to have to achieve to earn it (wait calmly). Many people will explain it better than me......and you can get some good info doing a google search!

I am no expert.... but over the years and different dogs I figured, no matter how much i think I am the leader.... practicing the NILF and now the triangle can't hurt!!!!

This works great.....my dog run is really my back verandah and has wooden deck......the smell was soaking into the wood and nothing could get the smell out. The Phenyl worked great, no smell and no flies!!!! It cost me $3 for Phenyl wheelie bin cleaner (it says for animal enclosures on it).....its 1 litre concentrate and you mix it 1 in 50. It is a bargain and works wonders!!!!

It sounds like your dog is bored and the neighbour is giving him some stimulation.......through noise etc.... By all means I would put up the internal wire fence so he isn't banging on the neighbours fence.....but don't be surprised if this turns into another behaviour such as barking or digging. consider how much exercise he is getting...a tired dog is less likely to get bored. Even a good walk might not tire him much. he is a working dog that is ment to be running sheep all day. With my bc, a good run beside the bike going quite fast every morning for just 30 min was enough that he spent much of the day snoozing. And then another ride at night.......But even an hour brisk walk didn't wear him out and he would be wanting to play ball afterwards. A swim worked wonders too for wearing him out too if you have the chance. Also mental stimulation...... my kelpie has a huge requirement for mental stimulation. We do obedience and agility weekly, and we do bits of training every day.....maybe 3 x 10 min or more + adhoc NILF type training and clicker training. I am constantly teaching him new things which seems to give him stuff to think about and he has every concievable 'thinking' toy imaginable......toys with treats inside that he has to manipulate to get them.....and toys hanging so he can play tug by himself.....he gets bones that require a bit of work and time to get at the yummy stuff, to take up a chunk of his day and he also has company in another dog. Have you also considered taking your dog out to some herding clinics and such......he is afterall a sheep dog and may find heaps of mental stimulation for the chance to use his instincts. remember that working breed dogs in a backyard = lots of work!!!!!

I went through this not long ago with my kelpie......he used to freak out and try and run away or freeze up and shut down. I thought I would share how I went with him.....because I thought he would be scared forever and he turned around in about 5 weeks...... I was prepared not to use a clicker with him, however if anyone else near by was using a clicker he would freeze up and switch off. Not very useful if I ever get to obedience trial stage and other people maybe using them outside the ring or where ever. And I didn't want him freaking out at any time over a simple noise. And besides i love a challenge........ So I got an i-click, its a much nicer click and would wander around the house with the i-click in one pocket and cheese in the other......using a very high value treat was the key, it ahs to be something the dog loves and will really do anything to get. Cheese was the answer for me. I held the clicker tightly in my pocket (it muffled it so it was a lot quieter) and would click it and throw the dog cheese, landing it right in front of him, never handed it to him....wtihout making a fuss of it, without looking at him or paying him attention. I did not tell him he was good if he ate the cheese because it was up to him to realise it was no different than the kettle boiling or the microwave binging...it was a part of life. This was just something that happened randomly in different rooms about the house, at different times....close together of 1/2 hour apart. I didn't care if he was close to me or not .......as long as he was close enough he could just hear it. He never got this high value treat any other time except with a click..... At first he would take a few steps back away from the noise or move to the other side fo the room .....if he chose to ignore the treat I just carried on doing dishes or what ever......I left the treat as his choice....its there and its up to him to eat it or not. Guaranteed it didn't stay there for long....especially if he was a little hungry!!! Gradually I took the clicker out of my pocket but still held it tightly. And I would sit on the couch watching tv, and get him nice and relaxed next to me. And I would click and give him cheese (without looking at him) just radomly throughout the show......he fliched a few times and ignored the treat.....but I paid no attention, didn't tell him he was good for taking the treat or didn't tell him off if he moved away. It was his choice. It took a few weeks and he stopped worrying about the click so much....the click had been happening at different times in different rooms and it never hurt him, never caused anything to happen.....so he started to realise he was safe......and the click ment cheese was on its way....and yummo who can resist cheese. Then I started noticing that when he heard the click he would flick an ear with interest and wait for the treat.........the treat was winning over his fear of the noise. I eventually worked up to clicking and handing him the treat while doing the tv exercise......and we did this for a few weeks.....until he associated the click and treat was from me. Once he was comfy with the click and treat from my hand, I started using it to teach him new things. I have now been teaching him a few basic exercises with the click and treat.......touch my hand, touch a pointer and an in front exercise. He gets excited now when I pick up the clicker because he knows there is cheese to earn. So although not every dog can be clicker trained, I guess some of them can be desensitised to it......lets face it most dogs get desensitized to noises around the house.......they aren't scared of the kettle or the microwave or washing machine.....because its a part of life. There is no reason the click noise is any different to these noises or the phone ringing......it can be a part of life too! And in my case this worked.....I was prepared to give it up on advice from people....but now it was worth the time and effort to help him realise it wasn't going to hurt him, that it actually ment something yummy was coming.

My 3yo BC.......is exactly the same!!! A regular couch potato. He lives with my ex now and is gaining heaps of weight..........so I guess the key is to make sure they get enough exercise and enough socialisation to play! Maybe a vet check to make sure there is nothing more serious..........but otherwise count your blessings!

I posted this in the rotty forum but added it here for everyone to see. Just read an interesting article and thought I should share......and With the recent outbreak of horse flu in NSW and QLD thought it a 'food for thought'. its been confirmed in the USA that dogs have caught the equine influenza from eating infected horse meat. So everyone please check what is in your dog food, incl. kibble, if you don't make your own food..... Also since the virus can be transmitted by people on their clothing from horse to horse....I would also consider horse - human clothing - dog as a transmission pathway!!! I don't know if it can, but I wouldn't take the chance. Gov article on horse flu

Poor thing! Maybe try making the trip a good experience and the same for the trip to the vet. My old lab was vet petrified so we used to walk there and I would get the nurse to feed him his treat.....first just in the car park, then near the door, then just in the door.....you get the idea. The treat was super high value that he never got anywhere else.....soon he just looooooved the vet.

He kinda chucks himself (a half jump half roll) and lands on his back......its very comical! and lucky the grass is plush. ShellyBeggs, the best advice I can give is the name of a good trainer in your area with an established program. Where are you located? Northern suburbs/north central vic.....

Help for a newbie to the sport..........I have some basic questions. Keep in mind I am just starting with 2 babies (10 month and 15 month) and that I have never done it before. I'm still working on lead.......holding lead in right hand. should I forget about any sort of hand indication, hold lead across body in other hand or try doing both with right hand? how can I get my dogs to actually jump? I am talking less than ankle height and they just run through the jump or knock it over with their back feet How do you teach them to walk their back legs in line with the front? the front go up the ramp onto the dog walk and the back go off in another direction.....or they fall off the dog walk about half way up the ramp. And lastly.....how can i stop my stupid kelpie from throwing himself off the dogwalk backwards.......? first time he did it everyone rushed over to see if he was ok.........now he is such a comedian he is doing for the attention! This all comes about because I wont let him run flat out across the top and leap off. He lays there after he throws himself off, growling and doing the snapping turtle thing while acting like he is scratching his back! hahaha.....I just walk away and ignore his antics....but others feel they need to check he is ok, and rightly so for liability and all that sort of thing.... and so he has an audience.