Diva

No dogs in drivers' laps is in the 2008 changes to the Australian Road Rules I think, which all jurisdictions have agreed to standardise their rules to. There are other rules about the driver being in full control of the vehicle, which is used if a dog is interfering with the driver, and the restraint on a ute tray one which is not, I think, in the national road rules and can therefore differ from state to state. The local ABC radio has a senior traffic cop come on and take talk back calls from time to time, and this was one of the questions I heard asked of him - he was very clear that there is no law that dogs need to be restrained in cars in the ACT, but they can't be in the driver's lap, be in a position to jump out or fall off, or be travelling in such a way that the driver doesn't have full control of the vehicle.

In that case - yes. I'm coming Might not have a dog, they are both shedding, but who cares if I have chocolate!

Spatial memory makes a lot of sense to me in terms of what dogs do - I'd say mine have excellent spatial/topographical memory which greatly exceeds my own. I have tended to attribute some of it to scent, but maybe it is just that sort of memory is well developed in them, it's easy to see an evolutionary advantage. Interesting!

That's an excellent point, skills and time can get spread too thin.

I don't think it's easy to find a great trainer, but I think it's easy to avoid the ones that don't suit if you have enough background knowledge to know what the right questions are upfront. I certainly found one who could enage in the theory - but then I put the effort in to find a compatible provider, as I would with any unregulated service industry. People's ability to be effective in the world and make good choices as opposed to just talking the talk is an interesting dichotomy to me - it's what makes a good trainer too imo, and often what makes people not listen to a very academic sounding viewpoint. It completely colours who I listen to, I'm an outcomes focussed kind of person. But I'll leave it at that, we have done the conversation to death. I've found it very enlightening.

...and info for dogs and vehicles in Queensland, which only seems to refer to dogs on vehicles, eg utes, not in them. But I assume Queesnland has the same adherence to the national road rules, eg the 'control of vehicle' clause. 'Queensland Having an unrestrained dog on a moving vehicle could breach both the Transport Operations (Road Use Management -- Road Rules) Regulation 1999 and the Animal Care and Protection Act 2001. The Transport Operations Regulation, administered by the Department of Transport, states it is an offence to have an unsecured load on the back of a vehicle and that applies to dogs, said Dr Rick Symons, Manager of the Animal Welfare Unit within the Qld Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries. The Animal Care and Protection Act does not specifically mention dogs restrained on vehicles, but it places a duty of care on owners of animals to ensure the welfare needs of animals are met. "It is an offence under the Act for a person in charge of an animal to breach this duty of care by transporting the animal in a way that is inappropriate for the animal's welfare," he said. A breach of duty of care can result in a fine of $22,500 (and up to five times this amount for a corporation) or one year's imprisonment.' Sorry to do as two posts, having a few editing issues.

This what another DoLer posted about unrestrained dogs in cars last week, hope they don't mind me using the info but they seemed to know their stuff: NSW NSW Legislation Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1979 No 200 7 Carriage and conveyance of animals (2A) Without limiting subsection (1), a person must not carry or convey a dog (other than a dog being used to work livestock), on the open back of a moving vehicle on a public street unless the dog is restrained or enclosed in such a way as to prevent the dog falling from the vehicle. Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units or imprisonment for 6 months, or both. Road Rules 2008 297 Driver to have proper control of a vehicle etc (1A) A driver must not drive a vehicle if a person or an animal is in the driver’s lap. Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units. There is no specific reference in the legislation covering the restraint of dogs inside the vehicle but the police can use Rule 297 if they feel that the dog is distracting the driver (which means that the driver does not have proper control of the vehicle).

As I understand it, it is the interfering with the driver part of the law the police are relying on. I don't think the laws for restraint are in place as far as I can tell. Would love to find the relevant statute.

Get the pup, unless there is some huge practical impediment that meant you needed to wait. You have to take these things as they roll along, if the dam and sire are favourites - go for it. (although I have a feeling you had already reached that decision anyway )

Can you provide the reference Anne? I heard this discussed on the radio the other day - and the police spokeman was saying that it is illegal to have them unrestrained on the back of utes, for them to interfer with a driver, or to travel on a driver's lap. But he was clear that it was not illegal to have them unrestrained in a car unless they were interfering with the driver. Not saying you're wrong, but I would like to get to the bottom of the legal position as I've heard it said a lot that they legally need to be restrained, and no police or other authority I have asked has ever agreed. I've checked the national road rules and couldn't find it in there - only the bit about interfering.

No, you weren't, not if you wanted to start a conversation about emotional conditioning and Premack. If you had enough background to ask about establishing operations of your first trainer, you really could have been capable of choosing someone who could talk the language of theory. If you didn't ask the right questions three times before hiring, that's just weirdly ineffectual. And yes, it's disillusioning; not disheartening, that was your term for how you felt. My illusions of your nous are destroyed. My heart was never involved

Just went back and read your post - 2nd in sweeps yesterday? Any more news from today? Yes --- 1st in Sweepstakes and BPIG....... I clearly have excellent taste! Sounds like you had a great weekend.

Just went back and read your post - 2nd in sweeps yesterday? Any more news from today?

Congratulations!

So why did you hire them in the first place Corvus? No due diligence? It's hard for the average punter to sort the wheat from the chaff, but it shouldn't be hard for any afficienado of training to find what suits them just by asking a few questions of the trainer in question. The average punter who is sold a load of codswallop I feel sorry for, but how come you didn't know better? It's very disillusioning for me that some who claims to know so much hired such a trainer.

I still do that, and I am happy to depend on it in most normal circumstances. It's very reliable. I have no idea what episodic memory dogs may have, I expect not much, but I think they they have a good sense of duration, of how long things last. If I consistently train for a 3 minute 10 second sit stay then they will start to shift after that time precisely, even if I am not the one timing it.

I agree females hold a grudge but not that the fights amongst dogs in a household situation are really that hard to read coming, not if people pay close attention. I think people get complacent, let little incidents happen, a push here and a glance there, and then suddenly it's on - but there has been a lead up to it. Maybe just one of the bitches being near to a season, or some change in the household that seems minor has upset them, but there is something. If the humans intervene appropriately at the right time, or if there is enough space that the dogs can self manage it to avoid conflict, a real fight may never happen. But if it does, it can be hard to totally recover a former relationship. I agree that breed matters too - breeds that traditionally worked and lived in groups are often a bit predisposed to be more tolerant with pack mates, I'd put many of the hound breeds in that category.

Probably, but even saying that my entire girls have always run together and I've never had a problem. They never argue. They are alone in my yard with bones and toys most days and it's not a problem. Two entire females and a desexed female at the moment. The breed and the individual temperament of the bitches involved counts for a lot.

Sounds like you have a few issues going on, including lack of time because of your family's needs and a fairly intense young working dog. He might like a home with more room to run, but a fairly untrained (and I have to say that given the biting incident, cat obsession and throwing himself against the windows) and unfulfilled adolescent that wants to chase everything that moves is not necessarily a good match for a rural home either, he'd need a lot of training and discipline to fit in there and not get into trouble. He might suit a dog sport home better than a rural one but they don't grow on trees either. I can understand your anxiety at walking him, but if you can't regain your confidence you'll need to find some other options to exercise him even if just until you find another home for him. Does your dog club have a ground you can use outside of class times to exercise him? Is there a safer area you both can drive to and then walk? How about play dates? Walking with a friend? Changing the time of day you walk? If you rehome him you'll need to disclose he bit a child, and that will put a lot of people off as will his other more extreme behaviours. I think you need a good trainer/behaviourist to show you how to channel his drives and a few options for getting around your anxiety problem. But if you do decide to rehome him, you can't really claim anyone is making you do so - it's a legitimate choice, but still your choice and from what you have written based more on you finding him too much dog to deal with than the attack.

You'll have to give Rosie a cuddle from me Mercedes. Tell her not to grow up too quickly, she is too cute as she is!

What Dxenion wrote is entirely consistent with what I believe the law to be in the ACT too. The question came up recently on a radio talk back program with a police rep. A dog on a ute tray has to be restrained so that it can't go over the side, and a dog cannot be on a driver's lap. However, there is no requirement that a dog be restrained inside a car apart from not interfering with the driver.

Not going this year, but good luck!

I got mine from the US a couple of seasons ago. I think from memory they were from the Clean Run agility site during one of their postage free promotions. Don't know which of the Australian links are the same but it has a fairly open knit and no fabric backing.

Depends what sort you get, mine lets the breeze through fine.

I'm another who would worry about this dog's ongoing quality of life, the misery that won't make the video clips, the impact on it's body of how it is having to live, the inevitable pain, the need for manual assistance in toileting, the huge demands on a new owner and how it's all going to compound over time. If the current owners had committed to the dog for the length of its life and had done so without the cameras, I'd be less worried. But as it is - 'conspicuous compassion' is a good term for it, and no, not inspirational at all.