Diva

yep ... totally agree with you on that .... many losers will use it as an easy excuse I don't think many people in the thread have suggested that every judge is a face judge, most of the comments seem to be along the lines of it being a minority, but not a trivial minority. As for it just being peoples' opinions - I think the perception of dishonesty is just as damaging as the reality in something like this. If 75-80% of respondents think there is a problem with face judging, that's a problem for the sport in itself, regardless of how right they are. How high that figure is really suprised me.

Odd, I had the opposite impression - that their help was never intended to be just for members.

That's not a problem here - frost knocks it back.

I think Skysoaringmagpie mentioned it recently.

I don't really think that is the whole problem, though it would be very convenient to think so. To paraphrase what another DOLer said in a different thread, to say it's all corrupt is simply not true, but to say there is no problem isn't accurate either. I agree with that.

Face judging is not really the fault of the exhibitor, not unless they are exchanging wins with judges because they themselves judge. That is the most heinious form I think, closely followed by putting cronies and friends up. Some others just put up what they think is the safest option - especially if it is a breed or group they don't have any real interest in. But there is also a quite reasonable theory known as the 'halo effect' - the dog that is handled by the most well-known exhibitor may genuinely be judged more kindly and positively, and the judge won't always realise that it is not the quality of the dog that they are being impressed by. The judge is not dishonest in that scenario, they are just being subconsciously influenced to treat the 'from a well known kennel'/handler looks like a professional'/'heavily advertised' etc, etc, dog more generously - the standing of the exhibitor or kennel rubs off on the exhibit. This is where newbies often lose I think, even when their dog is as well presented on the day. I still think that most judges do the best they can as honestly as they can, with varying levels of competence. But not all. After several years of showing I have a 'no respect at all' list taped inside my show folder. I add one new judge for about every 10 shows I go to. Eventually that will be enough to get me to give up.

Huh? I think that I can safely say that I don't know anyone irl, over the age of puberty anyway, that thinks we live in a society that takes care of it's unwanted- human, canine,or other- although many do try. But of all the examples that come the mind, using these dogs in this way doesn't even rate. The fact that they are to be pts in the first place does.

So do I. But that doesn't mean this practice is necessarily either callous or wrong. It could be if handled badly, but it isn't inherently so. It isn't scientific experiementation either, not by any def'n of the scientific method I know. It is professional training.

That does not mean they don't care about the dogs. If the dog feels no pain, is unaware of the operation, and is not revived post-op, what difference does it make to them whether they are pts before or after?

I cant think of a single poster who's said that. No, I don't think anyone did either. Those agreeing with the necessity of the practice are not callous or without compassion.

I don't know if it is against the rules, but if a judge decides it is they simply won't allow you to compete with it in their ring. I can't remember what the grievance procedures are but they are unlikely to help in a timely enough manner to allow you to compete that day, so the suggestion to carry a back up collar is a good one. At least until you can get a ruling on it from your state committee.

It's not controlled as a herb, i have it in my garden.

It is a good opinion

I'd rather the dogs weren't going to be pts at all, but they are. I'd rather newly graduated vets never operated alone, but they do. If these dogs are going to die anyway and the operations will not be allowed to cause them pain, on balance I agree with vet students learning their craft on them - carefully and with respect. It's hideous, but no more so than a pts of any healthy dog in any pound. I have a concern about it desensitising the students, but the post earlier about the op on the pig showed it doesn't have to, they can and do know what the poor dog has given them, and given to other pets and their owners too.

Sorry this happened to you Kitt. From experience, one thing to watch for incoming months is that it doesn't change how you respond to other charging dogs. When my 2 were attacked by 2 loose and aggressive GSDs a while back it shook my confidence much, much more than I realised at the time. In the months afterwards one of mine got a bit reactive with large dogs she didn't know coming up behind her. She had never been like that at all previously, and I assumed it was because she had now been in a serious fight. It took someone wise to point out that she was doing it because I was no longer acting like there was nothing to be afraid of, she had seen me not able to chase off the attacking dogs and now I was acting like all large strange dogs were dangerous, so she was stepping up to make the scary dogs keep their distance. I still find it hard to act as calmly as I used to when loose dogs run over, but remembering I have to has stopped my dog thinking she has to deal with them.

For the Sydney workshop I rec'd a ticket but on the day they just crossed names off a list and didn't worry about tickets. Don't know if Melb would be the same.

I enjoyed it too - made me feel much more confident in what I already knew, and raised a few issues I had never even heard of. I've always wondered why people post movement photos in ads and profiles that show such bad movement, and I'll wonder even more now. Thanks for bringing your babies Woofen. If I had thought you wouldn't have noticed I'd have tucked one under my arm and scurried away. So sweet!

They all sound like things that are within your control, but you need to change how you react to him and what you reward with attention - good or bad, it's all attention and of value to him. Whether it's dominance or not matters less than the fact that he is behaving towards you in ways you find rude and unacceptable, and he continues to do so because it works for him. You don't have your OH's strong body language and deep voice to deter him but NILIF, which pers linked to, will help set the right tone. You also need to remember that you are in control, he will respond to the boundaries you set if you are authentic and consistent about it. It's not just something he is doing to you, you have allowed the behaviour and are complicit in it, and you can fix it by changing how you react.

He does have excellent taste. Not my favourite either.

It's true - Howard should never be left alone ANYWHERE near lollies! Evil Whippet!! To be serious for minute, I do agree it's wise people never forget the risk, especially of overheating. But the idea we are all so stooopid and irresponsible that we need a one-size-fits-all rule imposed regardless of the real life circumstances - and need to be hectored about it by someone who thinks they have claimed the moral high ground - is not at all helpful.

When first came on DOL one of these threads came up, but back then most posters were adamant it was terribly irresponsible to leave dogs in cars no matter how cold the weather for even 30 seconds, as bad as leaving a child. They wouldn't even fill up their car with petrol on a cold day, at an undercover petrol pump, with the dog in the car because they would have to leave it for a minute to pay. I posted that on a cold Canberra winter day and with calm sociable dogs, I didn't hesitate to leave them in the car at the local shops for as long as 15-30 minutes! Boy was I ripped into. It made me fear for their common sense.

lucious, I am sure someone from SA will pm you, but in the meantime you might want to start by reading the showring FAQs thread pinned at the top of this forum, it has a lot of the basics.

That's not a bad response I think, if it were me it would be enough to give them a second chance - but I would remind them next time the dogs were in of what had happened previously.

That poor woman, what a hideous way to die.

...and the ring is big enough to run a hound in.