Diva

Best of luck with him, I hope you get a definite diagnosis and it's a treatable problem

A lovely photo, but not quite the look I'm after

So glad to hear she is doing better.

Yes, this is one bit that is confusing me. I believe that when Jas locks on the lure, it's an instinctual response to fast moving prey heightened by centuries of selective breeding that's motivating her. When the lure stops, she stops over the top of it, she has no desire to rip it up or 'kill' it - but despite the lack of this part of what you seem to be saying prey drive is Corvus I really have trouble accepting the chase has a play motivation rather than prey. I had a Borzoi years ago who caught quite a few rabbits. But she seldom killed them. Some died when she grabbed them at speed, but killing didn't seem to be her object - catching was. And her attitude didn't look any more like play than Jas's on the lure. I'm not convinced prey drive needs to include the kill for satisfaction? This lack of a common lexicon and the use sometimes of almost 'mystical' language is a barrier for me too. I have a science/ economics background and feel a lot more comfortable with the language of Skinner et al than I do the drive trainers. But I don't want to lose what these trainers can teach me because of that. I don't know that a cattle dog chasing a ball is the same as a sighthound on a hare - I guess that question, and whether both of those behaviours can be utilised in training or if I'm better not going there with the sighthound, is really the essence of my first post. Just because I can (and I'm proud of her :D ), and because skysoaringmagpie takes a great photo, here's a photo of Jas chasing a lure and showing the kind of focus I'd like to capture for other types of work.

thanks percyk. I haven't heard of them but I do know one woman in the US who trials Borzoi and is a professional trainer, I'll email her.

$20

Yep. Definitely pointy My favorite breed of all time.

I'd agree with this. From what I know of Chows they have a distinctive temperament, more so than for most breeds, and you'd be best talking to someone experienced with them. Good luck, with the care you are giving to the decision and some good advice I am sure you'll do what's best.

looks good - not sure my dogs would be thrilled at having to carry their own gear though $30?

My thought too. I live in Missouri, USA in the St. Louis area. I don't want to give out anymore details than that, though. I'm kinda uncomfortable giving out too much information of my whereabouts on the net. That's plenty of detail Dazzle, you are right not to offer more. People asked because many of us on here are in Australia or New Zealand and some things can be quite different. I was puzzled as to why your vet was keeping such restricted hours but that is because around here they are usually open in the evening. Good luck with her. I hope it's nothing serious.

Thanks for the reply dogdude. I'm pretty sure I can get her to the levels I'm after without this (I'm only after a CD) but the focus she brings to coursing would be very interesting to harness for the trial ring and I'd be learning a new skill which would be good. Like many sighthounds her small fluffy focus isn't indiscriminate. She knows fairly well what is legimate prey and what isn't. I wonder if that makes it harder to transfer it to an object but I won't know until I try will I. I've been thinking about what might stop me and the first is probably impatience - I can get results quicker with praise/food and I'm always inclined to take the easy way. But I'm not really in a hurry, I can keep showing her in the interim. The second reason I hesitate is probably because she is a bit physically intimidating when really revved - I don't mean aggro, not the slightest risk of that - but I'll need to build control if I'm using frustration to intensify her focus. I usually do the opposite and make sure they know that not leaping around and getting revved too physically close to me is a rule of the house. She'll fetch it pf but only if nothing else is happening. She'd rather run alongside the dog which is chasing the ball and she would never contest for one. With all of them I've used fur toys as reinforcers as puppies but they grow out of the interest. Their only interest in toys now is playing chase/keepie off with each other (altough the red girls takes a toy to bed ). Thanks for the advice. I'll do some more reading and see how she responds.

I'm going to do a bit of hijacking - sorry Pete but it's too tempting (and you did say you thought Pete was part sighthound) I'm starting obedience with my Borzoi next year. One in particular has very high prey drive - but it's about real prey, not toys. She's hot on the lure so she will chase plastic if it moves fast enough, but toys and tug don't do it for her. Does anyone have experience of a sighthound with a great focus on rabbits and hares but little on toys having their drive successfully re-directed to a toy/tug? Or am I better sticking with other reinforcers?

I so hope the daccie is the sire, not the dam!

Thanks

Some dog chiros I have been to over the years have been pretty rough, so much so I've only used them when I really needed to and couldn't find an alternative. But the 2 I use in Canberra I find great, if they did people I'd go to them myself. I haven't found a canine massager locally though - anyone have a recommendation for someone resident in the Camberra region?

You don't necessarily have to be a breeder either, just breed knowledge will sometimes do. Just one experience of many - I had a 10 year old bitch I was pretty sure had bone cancer - her breed, her age, the site of the pain, all pointed to it. Vet swore black and blue she had done a cruciate ligament and laughed, literally, at the suggestion of cancer. He was so certain I overcame my own convictions and let him operate to repair the cruciate - I wanted him to be right. Sadly of course he wasn't, Borzoi aren't known for cruciate injuries, but they are known for osteosarcoma. Diagnosing a Borzoi pup with ED and possibly HD is huge in terms of rarity in the breed, but this vet seems to have leapt to it. I'm too polite to say what I think of that, let alone the vaccination issue.

Sounds good, it's a shame he and you had to go through this. I wouldn't be suprised if the first vet was wrong on all counts and you've had a lot of angst for nothing. Now that must be the definition of overservicing!

You are completely right Pointeeblab. I have found that from direct personal experience. But I strongly suspect SBT does know who this breeder is, as I do. Perhaps we should have been clearer we had some confidence in their interest and support because of that.

I'd either get a second opinion now or get the x rays done and make sure an expert in the field interprets them, not the first vet. As the breeder has given a guarantee for such issues she may well want to have a say in the vet too. It may well be ED, but the vet's comments about the pup being too skinny and also having hip issues don't inspire great confidence from this distance. You'll often get told a Borzoi pup in good condition is skinny, but it shouldn't be by a vet.

Relieved he's a bit better. Give him a big kiss on that gorgeous nose for me. I'm not suprised you a feeling emotional, it's a terrible shock to get a diagnosis like that. Take a deep breath and work through it one step at a time. I would suggest a second opinion though. Borzoi aren't run of the mill pups. A vet used at least to greyhounds is often a good idea.

So sorry to hear this. I can't help much with advice on the possible vaccination reaction. Dogs can have them but I don't know much about them, just wanted to say I'm sorry he's having problems. Has he a temperature? If not and he's drinking OK and no vomiting, loose motions or hunching up, and he has good colour in his gums, I'd probably watch him overnight, see how he is in the morning and take him back to a vet then, if he were mine. But I can't see him so please go with your gut instinct. Re the vet's concerns, hip issues would be very rare in Borzoi I think. I don't know about elbow dysplasia but I've not heard of it in them. Is your vet experienced with sighthounds? If not I'd find one who is for a second opinion before commencing treatment. And I'd suggest you talk to his breeder asap. Good luck. Edited: I forgot about your snake suspicion. If you think it is that he should be at a vet as fast as you can get him there. But I think I'd expect him to be worse, not sleeping normally, maybe drooling, vomiting or with nervous system symptoms. The only envenomated dog I have seen went downhill very quickly. But it depends on the type of snake and degree of envenomation.

Not separated here. I tend to let the oldest decide if she wants to go out for the day when I leave or not but that is more to do with the weather than anything else. Otherwise all 3 are together unsupervised, all females, 2 undesexed. Not bull breeds though. Follow your instinct, if you think you have reason to separate you probably do.

LOL, me too. When I turn up at the butcher at the markets and buy pork tails, chicken feet, goat liver and lamb hearts.......

This concern is one of the reasons that as well as feeding tails, necks, offcuts etc from farmed species I also get feral species for my dogs. Ferals can include rabbits, venison and goat, and hares too when not too expensive. Species appropriate dog food and more environmentally benign (or even positive). Not easy or possible for everyone to do - but worth the effort if you have a concern about feeding meat for environmental reasons. I can't really answer the kibble question as I don't feed a lot of it, but generally I think % are only half the story, nutrients from different sources have different bioavailability. And manufactured vitamins etc don't always have the same effect as those from natural sources, as has been shown from a few studies in human health.

I agree with that. The only time I have had fleas in Canberra was when I flew a pup in from Qld and she arrived with them. The cold winters and heavy clay soils here make a difference I think. You could still get an inside infestation but the external environment doesn't really seem to suit them. Thank goodness!