stormie

These side affects are usually only seen with the higher immuno suppressive doses of cortisone. The dose used for anti inflammatory effects is about 1/4 - 1/5 of the dose used to treat auto immune diseases, and is much safer with less side affects, so long as the dog recieves a 'day off' every day or two in order to keep the adrenal glands on their toes. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, even with the diagnostic tests available, its not always possible to cure atopy. It's not as simple as pulling out the offending plant, as the pollens are brought in through the air and can travel vast distances. Dogs with allergies to multiple things are also harder to treat with desensitizing injections (and also more expensive). Luke - I find (and it has also been noted by vets and specialists) that giving antihistamines at the same time as the cortisone lets you get away with giving less cortisone but with the same results. Also, adding an Omega 3 supplement will also help the efficacy of the antihistamine. There is a drug available which is a combination of an antihistamine and cortisone which I find works well and I don't have to give as much to get good results. So basically it's a matter of weighing it all up. I, for instance, will keep Orbit on cortisone every second day etc, as it gives him quality of life now. I would much rather him be happy and not bleeding and sore now. We just do what we can with treatment, but I am very aware this may be a life long issue. If he develops side affects later in life, then we'll deal with them then when they come up. But now, it's about making him happy. Atopy is a really awful condition for pet owners to face and until you've been there with an animal, it really is hard to comment on. I have had MANY sleepless nights - and I mean totally sleepless, because of his constant itching prior to treatment. I have sat up with him all night putting cool packs on his skin trying to reduce the itch.

I will be there!! ETA: Our clinic just received an email about this and also appears it was emailed to most of the clinics in Sydney. Lets hope we get a good turnout of vets!

Thanks guys. Yep - hoping to make it to the Jean Dodds seminar! The info is to show a science based person who likes to see cold hard facts before making decisions etc. So just one persons opinion isn't enough as they are very skeptical. I figure there must be a reason vaccine manufacturers decided to look into the duration of the vaccines and register it for use every 3 years. But trying to find any scientific information that isn't just someone saying 'we are seeing more cancers which is likely due to over vaccines' isn't good enough unfortunately. I need to see something that shows cold hard facts of over vaccinating leading to problems.

Just for personal use, just wondering if anyone has any links or info they can give me which preferably shows independant studies done (not funded by a drug company/vaccine manufacturer) showing evidence of problems with over vaccinating. Failing that, any links or proven evidence in general that supports the reasons as to why we shouldn't be vaccinating every year would be good to. and a final question, the current study being run by Sydney Uni, can anyone tell me whether or not this is being funded by a vaccine manufacturer? Thanks! Just for the record, I'm all for titre testing and only vaccinating when it's needed - i'm after this information for other reasons.

I wonder if they are digging down to the dirt because it is much softer to lie on? Is there anywhere in the yard they can lay down that isn't on the stones? Some big meaty bones could help occupy them when they are outside, but i'm not sure they would want to lay down on all those stones to eat them! Trampoline beds would be great - keeps them up off the ground and are also pretty comfy. We have ones here with steel frames and really tough strong trampoline material. I think the main thing though that's going to help you is providing them with a lot more physical and mental simulation. Remember in the wild, dogs travel far distances to hunt for the food, then eat, then sleep. Your dogs don't seem to have much of an outlet for their frustration so are venting their pent up energy on chewing/digging etc. The fact that the chewing takes place at night is a fair indication that not much sleeping is taking place. Is it possible to walk them twice a day? Maybe a nice physical walk to a park where you can then do some mental stimulation with training and games? I play lots of games with my 7month old that require him to use his brain. I find a game of 'seek the toy' is great. I make him sit and stay whilst I hid his toy out of sight then use the word 'seek' to free him to find it. It not only helps with his training and commands, but also really tires his brain out being so focused for so long.

Going to be interesting to see how this 3year protocol holds up against the new strain of Parvo (CPV-2c) thats hit the USA. Said to be affecting adult dogs, as well as dogs with lower range immunity against the current strain we vaccinate against. Not in australia (yet), but still, those who follow the 3year protocol, might still be worth having titre tests done to make sure the parvo immunity is still high.

you can buy Carprofen tablets (same as rimadyl without the flavouring) for about half the price of Rimadyl.

Interesting. I am suspect about fish with Orbit. He started on Eagle pack after coming home to me and was itchy. EP has fish meal in it. Most of the foods he has been on, had fish meal. I also thought he was itchier during the night when he was getting fish oil in his dinner, but put it down to just the oil. I recently put him on a sensitive skin diet which was only fish protein. His itching possibly got a little worse, but the main thing we noticed was that he constantly had urticaria (hives) down his neck and back. Got him onto a diet with no fish and within 24 hours the hives were gone. Its possible for dogs to develop an allergy to anything that they have previously eaten in their lives.

It worked for our retriever. She had sep. anxiety that got worse as she got older and became more senile. Took a few weeks to take full effect, but after a few months on it she was great -much more relaxed. Not long later we stopped the pills and she stayed the same

I know someone who raised their newfs on a diet of just meat, and from memory i'm sure it was roo meat. The dogs got a meaty bone here and there, but basically, they just got meat. The dogs never had any growth issues or health problems and lived into their teens. Not saying that this is a great diet, but dogs are scavengers and can survive on some pretty strange diets and actually do quite well.

thats funny, snarf. I actually had a similar conversation with a rep from Royal Canin! I was talking to her about Orbit's itchy skin and she was trying to push a particular new skin formula they had. She said that because he was a puppy he would need the special puppy skin formula as it has much higher levels of protein and fat! I reminded her that he was a growing dane puppy and she said 'oh yes a big growing dog like that would need more protein and fat than the puppy formula' (which was already too high).

I used to get Blair from Quakers Hill Vet out to see my horse when he was living out that way. He was really great and they were very reasonably priced...

I've used it... It didn't stop any itching but didn't do any harm either. It smells much nicer than malaseb or pyhoex too.

I do it all the time. With 3 dogs of different sizes and a cat it would cost a fortune. I just buy the >25kg Advantage and pour a couple of pipettes into a small vile at a time and use a syringe to suck out the amount. If you look on the packet of the size you should be using, it will tell you the size of the pipette, ie 6 x 4.0ml. Going by that, I work out how much for each of my animals... Also not recommended by the manufacturer as they'd much rather you bought a packet for each of your dogs!

Not everything suffers adverse reactions to cortisone. If its managed properly and dosed accordingly, dogs can live perfectly normal lives. We have many clients who's dogs have been on immune suppressive doses of cortisone (which is much much higher than the anti inflammatory dose given to itchy dogs) since puppies for immune mediated disease and lived normal lives to normal ages with no side effects whatsoever... I'm not saying there are no risks, but if its used correctly, a dog can live a perfectly normal, healthy life on it...

I've used them too - they were good. Only problem I had is the minimum 10kg on each of the bones lots. I only have limited freezer space, so usually I could only buy one type of meat/bones at a time...

I'd be trying to find out the cause of her allergies before you switch to RAW/BARF - particularly if its a food allergy. Orbit has allergies/itchy skin and he drops a lot of coat too, but mostly it grows back. It could just be broken hairs coming off from the scratching, plus as the skin is irritated and inflamed, the hair my be falling out a little more. Has your vet worked up the allergies? ie do you know whether its food, pollens, dust mites etc? Supplements may help, I've started Orbit on biotin tablets and a coat enhancer to help generally improve his skin and coat. I also wash him in a medicated shampoo a couple of times a week to keep bacterial infections at bay....

Panalog has cortisone in it. Furuncles are usually caused by staph bacteria, so Pyohex shampoo and lotion would be better than malaseb... but they really are a symptom, not a diagnosis so its best to find out what is causing them and then go from there... eta: no way it could be a foreign body? grass seed?

No probs molasseslass... tried to find some Natures Own but nowhere had it in stock Will order some online i think....

Thanks :rolleyes: Have seen the Natures Own tablets and they are quite reasonably priced too... will give them a try!

For those that supplement with biotin, just wondering how much you give and how often etc? Also, where do you get it from and have you had success with it improving coat/skin. So far the only place I can find it in powder form is through horse supply places, at around $70 and in 5kg tubs... Thanks!

i'd give him water - vomiting dehydrates dogs, like people. Just don't let him gulp huge amounts, let him have little bits at a time

Are you able to take his temperature?

Artemis also have a full range of puppy, adult, senior and diet foods for different size breeds that do have a lot less protein. Artemis Fresh Mix Adult contain 23% protein which is around the same as Eagle Pack Holistic, Innova, Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance etc... The food aimed at my medium to large breed pup is 43%. Too much protein. Twice as much as Nutro or EP Personally i think that the BEST food is what your dog does best on, theworst what it does not do well on I also think that there is no relevance in tellingus that X food is the best when it is not available here I wont pay $10 to find out that the foodi am feeding my dog is considered BAD when they doamazing on it. Nutro is not in the same class as Pal,makesme laugh to think it is being comparedtopal. That is like saying eye fillet steak is the same as a rump :rolleyes: Artemis Med - Lg Puppy: Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 27% Crude Fat (min) 15% Moisture (max) 10% Crude Fiber (max) 3% Calcium 1.0% Phosphorus, min. 0.8% Sodium, min. 0.27% Zinc, min. 200 mg/kg Selenium, min. 0.40 mg/kg Vitamin A, min. 22,000 IU/kg Vitamin D, min. 1,000 IU/kg Vitamin E, min. 300 IU/kg Omega 6, Fatta Acid, min. 2.6% Omega 3, Fatty Acid, min. 0.4%

I'd be interested to see a list as to which foods dogs actually DO BEST on... I have tried a few different foods that would be in the category of 'the best' and my dogs did poorly on them and better on foods that are in 'the worst'. Every dog is different and while they might have the best quality meats and veges, doesn't necessarily mean they are going to be the best foods...