stormie

puppies with allergies? How is that from commercial food? I mean that as people we have allowed all these different breeds to exist because we have supported them and their perpetuation. Wolves survive through natural selection - individuals with allergies or intolerances died. I agree that the additives in commercial foods express themselves in allergies - christ we didnt call it PAL skin/ears for nothing at the vet clinic *shudder* but I'm talking away from cramming every artificial chemical down the dogs throat. Agree 100% with this. Allergies are not a result of commercial food. It's in the genes. Nature uses natural selection - survival of the fittest. Allergies are genetic and atopic dogs are continuing to be bred with. I feed mostly a prey model diet (with what meats I can with my dog's allergies) but I also give fruit and veges and a little rice in his diet as well as offering to him to free feed from. Personally, I believe dogs are scavengers and can survive quite well on almost anything. I think people stress waaaay to much about what percentages of this and that they feed their dogs. I've known of people who've fed solely meat and also people who've fed just chicken frames and never had any problems with their dogs.

Hi Labsrule, out of curiosity what are the other symptoms of bloat? Is there always repeated attempted vomitting? The attempted vomiting is the most common symptom, as well as restlessness and anxiety. They can look quite roachy in the back due to the stomach pain and the stomach will begin to look distended. Gums will also often be pale and its not uncommon for them to salivate a lot. Mostly what you'll also see will be symptoms of pain such as panting, whining, maybe looking at their abdomen, and struggling to find a comfortable position.

What about using Interceptor, which does HW and worming, and then use something like Advantage for fleas? Advantage isn't absorbed and just stays on the skin, so it's one less thing going into his body.

All those areas are also typical of atopy - dog allergies. I would still use a product like Revolution - every 2 weeks for about 6 weeks - just to be sure it's not sarcoptes. Otherwise though it sounds like an allergy, whether it be environmental eg pollens, grasses, dust mites, or food. Once you've ruled out scabies with the revolution, start a food elimination diet. You'll need to feed something that your dog has not ever had before and feed only that food for alteast 10-12weeks. If you see any changes and the itching decreases after this time, you can then start to challenge her with some of the foods she has previously eaten, one at a time, to see if this sets off the itching again. Also try limiting her to only inside for a few weeks to see if the itching decreases. If possible, you can do the opposite and limit her to outside to see if there are any changes. This will help give you an idea as to whether the problem is coming from something inside or outside. Are there any specialists up there? Maybe speak to your vet and see if you can get a referral to a dermatologist? Goodluck!

Have to agree with this. The vet gave my guy a cortisone shot as a diagnostic tool to check for allergies. He didn't scratch for nearly a week, then it all came back Agree with this wholeheartedly! We are in the middle of sorting out our guys allergies. He has had the intradermal testing and as soon as we clear up an issues with one of his ears (a complication caused by the allergies) will start on desensitising for the airborne allergens. For the contact allergens (grass in his case) we were given a conditioner yesterday that seems to be working . There are other threads in here about itchy dogs which you may find some help in too. ETA It's possible the dog has had some sort of irritation which has started an itch/scratch cycle and the cortisone will break this and the itch may not return. Cortisone will generally take any itching away as its an anti inflammatory. So whether or not the cortisone works does not give you a diagnosis. You need to start a process of elimination, starting at parasites, then food etc. Limiting them to inside and then to outside is another way to see whether the scratching is because of something outside, ie pollens, or inside, such as chemicals, dust mites etc. Have you checked your garden for plants such as wandering jew? I know you said you have no fleas but they are great at hiding and typically cause issues on the lower back/tail base area. I'd treat with capstar just to be sure. Dragging his bum could be worms or anal glands, but also just itchy as the anal area is not covered in hair and more exposed to things things. The itchy areas sound like areas that come into contact with things the most, so Sas's idea of the carpet foam could be very likely. With regards to doing the allergy testing, make sure you seek the advice of a dermatologist before you do this. You could test a dog that has no symptoms and get positives - the blood/skin tests do NOT diagnose allergies. You need to rule out everything else first and get to the atopy (allergy) diagnosis and then go down the testing road. It's a long frustrating process, but best to do it right before you start spending tonnes of money on testing/injetions etc.

Agreed. I would have to say that the majority of dog owners just want to feed something simple and easy and actually want to feed dry food. You can't trust the average pet owner to understand a raw diet and be compliant with it, and if they get it wrong and the dog is unwell, guess who gets blamed - the vet! I often tell clients that I feed raw and its like Cris said - their eyes glaze over and you can see they're really not interested! I find it quite exciting when I speak with someone who even adds raw meat or bones to their dogs diet, because its not often it happens! I'd like to stock raw food in the clinic to make it convenient for owners to get it - supermarkets don't have a huge range and buying supermarket meat can be expensive for med-large dogs - and to also be able to educate them on how to feed it at the same time, but at the moment, I don't see it happening. Maybe one day though!! In saying that though, I don't agree with vets and/or nurses telling people dogs don't need raw meat. But if people do say that they feed raw, I think its important that vets question the diet to ensure it is balanced (assuming the vet would know that is!!!).

I don't agree with that theory. Food will take the same time to digest, no matter what it is fed with. Food starts breaking down as soon as enters the stomach and then continues as it passes through the intestines. Bits of meat will simply be digested earlier on in the intestines and the kibble will continue to pass through until it has been digested. Digestion happens slowly along a path, it doesn't all get digested through at exactly the same time. Some veges don't get digested at all and will continue all the way through till the end, where as the meat will be digested much quicker.

Maybe have a look into the treatment by Regeneus - LINK. It's about $6k and so far only done in Sydney, but might be worth looking into and having your vets speak to them about whether he's a candidate. Otherwise I'd suggest a referral to a specialist to see if you can get to the bottom of what is causing it and potential treatments. Goodluck!

Mucous in the stools generally just means there has been some irritation to the colon. A little bit of blood can sometimes be present with mucous too. Withholding a meal or two will give the colon a chance to heal and the inflammation to go down. You could also feed a bland meal of boiled breast chicken for a day or two as well.

What a load of $#%^. We keep our patients in overnight and we certainly do not use the 'cheaper, crappy anaesthetic'. Our patients are all pre-medicated to ensure they wake up slowly and peacefully. Isoflurane is the standard anaesthetic used in what I would say, nearly all clinics. In regards to what they are induced with, there is no such thing as a crappy induction agent, just a crappy anaesthetist. Go listen to some of the anesthesiologists lecture and they'll tell you the same thing. The overnight stay has nothing to do with what anaesthetic is used. It's a choice the vets make based on what they feel is best for the animal. In my vets opinion, they prefer them to sleep it off quietly and without any excitement, thus reducing the risk of them damaging their wound. It is not distressing for our patients as they are groggy from the pain relief and are quite happy to sleep it off quietly. \ We consult mornings and afternoons and do surgeries in the middle of the day. Packs need to be sterilised and patients need time to be admitted. Plus there are pets that need to be seen to in the mornings and cannot wait till the afternoon. i was told this by a vet so merly saying what he said. To me, that made sense.... Why would they say this if it wasn't true then? He is a vet that has been practising for years... The ironic thing is though, that its the 'good' anaesthetics/premeds and pain relief drugs which have them wake up slowly and gently. I just don't think it's right to imply that vets that are keeping their patients in overnight are using crappy anaesthetics. How a dog recovers varies a lot on the dog. I've seen dogs wake up without pain relief really nicely. I've also seen dogs wake up with with premeds and hard core pain relief, screaming and rolling around. I've seen an animal take 3 days to wake up from what you might describe a 'good expensive anaesthetic', because the person giving it gave too much. As I said before, how good an anaesthetic is, isn't just about what chemical it is. It's about how much they were given, how long they were under, what induction was used etc etc etc...

What a load of $#%^. We keep our patients in overnight and we certainly do not use the 'cheaper, crappy anaesthetic'. Our patients are all pre-medicated to ensure they wake up slowly and peacefully. Isoflurane is the standard anaesthetic used in what I would say, nearly all clinics. In regards to what they are induced with, there is no such thing as a crappy induction agent, just a crappy anaesthetist. Go listen to some of the anesthesiologists lecture and they'll tell you the same thing. The overnight stay has nothing to do with what anaesthetic is used. It's a choice the vets make based on what they feel is best for the animal. In my vets opinion, they prefer them to sleep it off quietly and without any excitement, thus reducing the risk of them damaging their wound. It is not distressing for our patients as they are groggy from the pain relief and are quite happy to sleep it off quietly. \ We consult mornings and afternoons and do surgeries in the middle of the day. Packs need to be sterilised and patients need time to be admitted. Plus there are pets that need to be seen to in the mornings and cannot wait till the afternoon.

Any vet can titre test as all labs offer it. It's just a matter of finding one who sends the blood directly to VetPath in WA, otherwise you end up paying more because the other labs charge their fee for handling the blood and sending it on.

Off the top of my head, he came back with positive results to chicken, duck and fish and a fair amount of grains. I think the results are in this thread somewhere? But it's interesting he is showing a physical reaction to chicken! Aloveen was always a problem for us. After using the shampoo or conditioner on him he'd break out again. His blood test actually also showed a positive so oatmeal so I guess that's quite possibly true!! We use Rufus & Coco's medicated shampoo now as it's the only one that doesn't dry his skin out. Dry skin increases the itchiness so its important to keep it hydrated. Day 3 of feeding him chicken today with everything else remaining the same, eg normal doses of cortisone and phenergan and he still has very obvious urticaria. Taking him off the chicken as of tomorrow so will see what happens!!

I think the prices you have been quoted are pretty standard for the area which you are in. With regards to staying overnight, it's probably not essential and while most DOL owners would be more than capable of nursing their pets, there are many who find it difficult to keep them quiet. We keep them in overnight, both boys and girls, for this reason. Our vets feel that its better for them to remain calm and sleep the drugs and anaesthetic off, without the excitement of going home and without people fussing over their wounds. There's also less stress to the owners who would be continuously fussing over them, checking the wound and worrying about any swelling, discharge or wobbliness from the anaesthetic. You'd be surprised at how many people take their animals to emergency post surgery because they see a little bit of blood.

Yes, the food thing is a hard one, isn't it. My derm doesn't seem to think testing for allergies/intoleranced to food is worthwhile, so I guess we are going to do an elimination diet of some kind. Finding the novel protien will be hard for us too - think there might be only rabbit and goat left. (unless we do the crustacean or crocodile thing, but can't even afford to do that for us, much as I would love to ). I believe its quite possible for allergies/intollerances to develop in time. I suddenly became very intollerant of wheat about four years ago. I also sometimes wonder if what the particular animal has been fed on could make a difference with reactions when we feed it our dogs. Did the weather this summer cause a problem for you or Orbit? Yeah I've never been one to believe in the food allergy blood tests, though the company who runs them will give you tonnes of information and examples of how they are actually valid. I knew Orbit had a fish problem, and his blood test showed this also, but could easily just be coincidence. I certainly don't treat it as gospel, but I've got nothing to lose by avoiding those foods anyway! Food elimination diets are really the only real way to go, but finding novel proteins is not easy. We used Euk F/P because not only did the derm recommend this as better than Hills, but also because its nutritional analysis had all the requirements of a growing large puppy so it suited us well in that respect. Only problem was it was made with fish, and he had actually had a commercial food prior to this which had fish in it. We saw no change in him which we now realise is because he was actually reacting to the fish!!! Summer is worse, but Orbit is generally bad all year round. Both his blood results showed a reaction to dust mites which are unavoidable and an all year round thing. We did get by on a lower dose of cortisone last winter, probably a lot to do with him wearing a coat so much, so hopefully now with more knowledge we'll do even better this winter. We will do the desensitising injections this winter too when the drugs are reduced and hopefully get some more positive results from them.

Ruptured cruciates generally respond poorly to anti inflamms so I would think it very unlikely that Henschke has ruptured his cruciate if he is back to normal and not lame the following day. Also, as has already been said, the vet should be able to feel straight away as there will be draw in the knee and it won't be tight. In some cases we need to sedate them to feel because it's so painful, but generally it's not that hard. Hopefully it was just the prickle in the foot that was painful and nothing more serious.

If you can do a proper elimination diet with a completely novel protein I'd recommend this over doing one at a time for sure. I had a hard time finding foods that Orbit hadn't previously eaten and even when I did I don't really remember seeing that much of a difference in him. I did the SPOT test which gives food allergy results (though whether or not these are valid is debatable) and so I have just been avoiding them for the sake of it. I have seen him develop urticaria from fish before and so have avoided that, but never seen this from chicken. It's also possible he has developed the chicken allergy since I did the first elimination diet.

Hey Zayder, No news from Heska yet - just the bill We're not paying it though!! I'm having a bit of an experiment with his diet at the moment. I've done an elimination diet before with no real success, but have just done a second one where i only eliminated chicken, and I re introduced him to it on monday morning. His skin exploded in the early hours of tuesday morning! Bad case of urticaria too. The only thing is, which was silly of me, was that he also didn't get any antihistamines on the monday, so its possible that would have made him slightly worse anyway, but this reaction was extreme. So I'm going to do try it again and keep all variables the same so I know for sure that's what it is. It's so frustrating though. Obviously his problems aren't confined to the one thing, as is quite common in atopic dogs. That is, he has environmental issues and quite possibly food issues, but it's hard trying to narrow them all down as there's just so many things. He has cycles which are often dependant on the weather, so he can be going good, then we'll get a windy day and he'll be bad. So it's hard trying to narrow down foods and looking for subtle changes when this happens anyway. Hope that makes sense!! But otherwise we are doing ok. The phenergan has been great and still is, and means he is coping on less than 0.5mg/kg cortisone every second day which we are happy with. I'm not going to try and do the desensitising during the warmer weather as I just can't wean him off the cortisone any more than I already have. So when it starts to cool down and we can get his dose down, then we'll go for it and hopefully get some success with that. Part of me wants to just do it now but I know how important it is to try and reduce the drugs whilst you are injecting them, for better results, so we will stick out this season and go hard in the 'off season'!!

At the moment, Kuringai are the only vets able to do the procedure and the company are only targeting Sydney vets for referrals at this stage. They are planning on travelling interstate later this year I believe. They have had people travel interstate however and have done the procedure on them. Eventually they hope to have more vet clinics performing the treatment.

Pyoderma simply mean skin infection. So basically it sounds like your puppy has a significant skin infection which her body is trying to fight off - hence the swollen glands. Hopefully it resolves itself quickly

We have a rep from the company who does it coming to visit our clinic tomorrow, so I will see if I can get some info about it for you

Basically I'm just wanting to know prices for a few vet services just to see how the prices vary from state to state and also between regions of different states. So I'm asking for the following: 1. State/region eg. Sydney- North Shore 2. Consult fee 3. Desexing fee - male/female and weight 4. Dental costs - whether was a scale and polish or teeth pulled etc. This isn't a vet bashing thread either about whether or not the fees are too much - I just want to see the variance of prices over Australia.

I feed raw, however I fed a commercial large breed puppy diet whilst Orbit was in his critical growth phase. I know people who have fed raw from puppyhood and had no problems, however it's not something I would do. I'm too concerned about getting the right amount of calcium and phosphorus and also the ratio of the two, to feed raw during the puppy stage. I tend to feel that weak pasterns/flat feet can often be more of a calcium problem than protein - ie not enough during growth, which is often why people recommend Vit C to correct it, as Vit C increases calcium absorption. Also, as puppies grow, their bodies change around and it's not uncommon for them to become more slopey/flat footed at different stages, however in most cases, its normal and it corrects itself but in cases of poor nutrition/over exercise then it is more severe and can become permanent. Since switching to raw, I have not had any changes in pasterns for feet. As for constipation, yep, too much bone does make his stools quite dry, but I find this easily corrected with some fibre and increasing the amount of meat fed.

What works for some might not work well for others. I would probably suggest you go to a Large Breed formula, but as to which brand, it just depends on what your dog does best on. I personally found all the super premiums too rich for my boy and gave him soft stools and lots of gas. He did best on Euk Large Puppy during his critical growth period and was then switched to raw at about 11months.

My boy went through a phase where he only wanted to pee on concrete, and cause he's so big, he'd get major splash back all over his feet, or he'd stand in such a way that the urine would run down to his feet.