stormie

Good to see where your priorities are (not)! Forget the animal, eh? And the people who only consider costs when seeking treating for their pets are thinking of the animal Unfortunately you need to get out more. Many in our society do not have the ability to pay, and need to shop around for the best price. The lady I spoke to who triggered this thread was involved in the recent bushfires and their business has suffered as a result. She had no problem paying the $106 but was a little put out when the Vet told her the medication PREDNEFRIN FORTE was expensive and apologised for the price. She came to me to out of curiosity to find out what the Vet paid for it, and was surprised at the mark up. I'm going to look this up on tuesday because I had to buy it for my horse and whilst I get it for cost, I still dont remember it being that cheap. So I'll tell you what our cost + GST is, and I'll also tell you what the RRP on it is.

Actually, supermarkets do charge more in wealthier suburbs. That's a well known fact. Shopped at the Toorak Safeway lately?? Yep, so do vets. Because the vets also pay the same higher rates because of the area in which they run. If you know you that you can get the exact same drug cheaper at a chemist, then ask for it. As for vets who supposedly charge more for difficult clients, that would be how you'd see it. Where in actual fact, its that the vet is charging LESS to their loyal clients than they should be. Yep, we do the same thing. Those who come to us regularly and regularly spend money with us and value us, we do more for them on the cheap because we know they'll be back. We rarely discount new clients. Why? Because to some people, it gives the impression that we don't think our service is worth paying for, that maybe we didnt do very much. But charge them for what we did and it gives our service value. Its threads like this that really make me value our good clients. Those that never bat an eyelid at fees for medications. They want the things we have because they trust us 110% and they appreciate the vets and nurses. The ones who keep saying thank you for preparing their medications for them.

If that was what was needed, then I'd be fine with that, because I needed to call an electrician to use his skills and expertise to do a job that I was unable to do myself. Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information? As stated in an earlier reply I have friends in the industry. I note that no one has disputed the quoted cost price figures to Vets. which cost price figures??? still waiting??

Major international law firm - did not realise there were any of those (jurisdictional/ different legal system issues and all). What you tell clients is part of your professional obligation on costs disclosure. You are required (by law) to disclose your costs. The client can still instruct you to do the work or go elsewhere. No comparison between lawyers and vets... To clarify (since I obviously need to) an international law firm has offices in a number of countries <sigh>. The people I'm taking about are those who get the firm's name from the phone book and call up unannounced. That's long before the engagement letter stage which includes full cost disclosure and estimate of total fees. Clients only receive that once we agree to take on the matter. Perhaps vets should be forced to disclose their costs and charges too, eh? At least make them readily available without the client having to ask. oh for goodness sake. So you think we should have a folder in the waiting room stating all our fees, costs of foods, drugs, surgery etc etc etc? Or when I greet people at the door, should I have a mini consult with them so I can give them a rough quote of how much their visit is going to be? The answer to all of this is simple. Vet fees are what they are. If you think its too expensive, then don't have pets. People really are becoming so obsessed with themselves. The 'need to know' everything is just insane. You should be greatful that your vet is a 'one stop shop' where you can get a consult and treatment all at the same time. It's not different to taking yourselves to the doctor. You don't know what script the doctor is going to give you when you see him. Nor do you know how much it's going to be when you then have to go to the pharmacy to get it filled. Yep, your antibiotics might be cheaper than your dogs, but that's not the vets fault, that's the drug manufacturers.

I think you mean unless there "isn't" a veterinary equivalent. Yes, if you have a look, you will see I edited my post.

If that was what was needed, then I'd be fine with that, because I needed to call an electrician to use his skills and expertise to do a job that I was unable to do myself. Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information? As stated in an earlier reply I have friends in the industry. I note that no one has disputed the quoted cost price figures to Vets. which cost price figures???

And they perhaps unnecessarily dispense medications to increase that profit. No one on this board wants their animal given unnecessary medicines to improve a vet's bottom line. Yes, the equipment is very expensive. And they recoup the cost when they use that equipment. That's why an MRI for a dog is (and I can't remember exactly) about $1,800. So that argument is gone ... What people want is open and honest and voluntary disclosure. A lot of people on this board are breeders who are vet savy. They know what something is going to cost, and know what questions to ask. Most people simply have their family pet and probably would be surprised to know that their chemist can even fill a prescription for an animal. Don't you remember the days when you couldn't visit the vet without them suddenly whipping out a flea collar and slapping it on your animal, and shoving a worm tablet down their throat without bothering to ask if you'd wormed them recently? Well since the proliferation of supermarket pet care products, that profit line is out the window. Oh, and another example of a medicine sold at a wildly inflated price is Trental. $38 for 50 at the chemist, $120 for 60 at the vet. They actually had the gall to comment how expensive the medication was going to be, without suggesting there was a way I could get it cheaper!! Only research on the net led me to find out how much cheaper it would be if that drug was prescribed to ME. I'm more vet savy now too and once I know long term medication is required, will ask if I can get a script. Vets (with the exception of the eye specialist) don't readily volunteer this information. And what about the GA for the animal while its having the MRI? And the monitoring equipment? And the skills of the specialist to decipher the images? That's not worth anything to you? If you go back and actually read the rest of the thread, you'll see that vets aren't actually allowed to write scripts for medication unless there is no veterinary equivalent. Those who do, are risking their careers.

I find all this vet bashing really sad. What is the world coming to? Vet is one of the most difficult subjects to get into you. You need a higher HSC mark than you do to be a human doctor. They're not just learning about one species either - they have to learn about them all - small and large animal. Then then they go into practice, they're dealing with patients who can't talk to them and tell them what the problem is. And if that patient needs surgery, they don't get referred to a surgeon - the vet does it themselves. Soft tissue, orthapaedics, dental etc etc. Vet is one of the lowest paid professions. I'm sure there are some vets and also specialists out there earning a good living, but it's definitely not easy money. They work long hours. And often they go from work to continuing education seminars. I've lost count of emergency surgeries we've been back till late at night doing, or saturday or sunday afternoons. We don't get paid any extra for this. And what about wildlife? Who do you think pays for the care and treatment of wildlife that we fix and treat? No one. Vets also have one of the highest rate of suicide. Dealing with difficult clients who are impossible to please is probably part of the cause. That and dealing with so much heart break of not being able to save everything. So like I said before, for all of you who have such a problem with vets and how they do things and what they charge, go to uni yourself and get your own vet degree. But till you do, why not try appreciating the knowledge that inside your vets head that enables them to know how to treat and fix your animals. If you don't think what they do is invaluable, then I find that really very sad.

If that was what was needed, then I'd be fine with that, because I needed to call an electrician to use his skills and expertise to do a job that I was unable to do myself. Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information?

Why do people keep comparing the cost of drugs at the chemist to the cost they are at the vet?! And for all you people complaining about vets charging for things like anal glands, then do it yourself. You're going to a clinic, getting someone to do a job for you that you obviously cannot do yourself, and expect this to be done for free?!?! I'm sorry, but I think that's a joke. And nicestman - You complained at the cost of treatment for your dogs bladder stones - how would you have coped with the cost if they had operated to remove them all from the bladder? Sounds to me what the vets did for your dog was very practical and the most cost effective for you. The food that you were put on actually dissolves the stones - yep, its not cheap, but it's cheaper than surgery! I don't think people realise how expensive it is to run a veterinary hospital. Poodle your estimations on gross profit from your drugs example is way off. Not all drugs are marked up the same amount. It can vary from what class of drugs they are. It was also mentioned that we don't go through medications at the same rate a chemist would. We often have to throw out out of date drugs because only a few clients use them, but not fast enough to go through a full bottle or box. But we still have to keep them in stock for when they might be needed again. Same thing with vaccines. We have one client who vaccinates her rabbit. So when she wants it done, we have to order a full bottle, even though we're only going to use one dose. We don't charge them for full bottle, just the price of the single vaccine. So there's another example where we lose out.

That sounds reasonable and average costs to me It seemed reasonable to her until she found out it was marked up 150%. If I was to take your approach I would charge $20 for the consultation and mark up on medication 600%. In the example I gave the Vet could charge $20 for the consultation and $86 for the eye drops. Does this example make it any clearer as to what I mean by hidden charges? But that's not practical because there are plenty of people who have consults that don't go home with medication. And there are also plenty of people who buy medication without having a consult. I still don't understand why you think its not right for vets to mark up their drugs. You haven't explained why you don't think this is reasonable. Forget the price of their services, I just want to know why you don't think its reasonable to mark up the cost of the products they sell. It is not the mark up that is the issue, it is the level. Everyone accepts there is a mark up to cover costs etc. I repeat, is the case I gave as an example of 150% reasonable? but unreasonable compared to what? Do you know what the mark up is on the food you buy at coles or woolworths? You cannot compare a Vet practice to coles. Coles does not charge for a service and you know the price prior to purchasing. It is impractical to have a Vet consultation and then balk at the price of the drugs. If you refuse the drugs because you think they are expensive do you still have to pay for the consultation? I think the answer is yes and then what; visit another vet? but the food you buy at coles has been marked up!! That's the point i'm trying to make! Every vet will have marked up the cost of their medication to around the same price in a particular area, to cover their overheads. Yes, you should have to still pay for the consultation, because that was the vets time, skills and knowledge you have just used. You are welcome to decline treatment though. If your dog has an infection and you are told it needs 'X' antibiotics, you are welcome to decline this. But you should still have to pay for the time it took for the vet to tell you what the problem was. You might find a vet a few suburbs over who have a cheaper dispensing fee, but gees, is it really worth it to save $5?

That sounds reasonable and average costs to me It seemed reasonable to her until she found out it was marked up 150%. If I was to take your approach I would charge $20 for the consultation and mark up on medication 600%. In the example I gave the Vet could charge $20 for the consultation and $86 for the eye drops. Does this example make it any clearer as to what I mean by hidden charges? But that's not practical because there are plenty of people who have consults that don't go home with medication. And there are also plenty of people who buy medication without having a consult. I still don't understand why you think its not right for vets to mark up their drugs. You haven't explained why you don't think this is reasonable. Forget the price of their services, I just want to know why you don't think its reasonable to mark up the cost of the products they sell. It is not the mark up that is the issue, it is the level. Everyone accepts there is a mark up to cover costs etc. I repeat, is the case I gave as an example of 150% reasonable? but unreasonable compared to what? Do you know what the mark up is on the food you buy at coles or woolworths?

That sounds reasonable and average costs to me It seemed reasonable to her until she found out it was marked up 150%. If I was to take your approach I would charge $20 for the consultation and mark up on medication 600%. In the example I gave the Vet could charge $20 for the consultation and $86 for the eye drops. Does this example make it any clearer as to what I mean by hidden charges? But that's not practical because there are plenty of people who have consults that don't go home with medication. And there are also plenty of people who buy medication without having a consult. I still don't understand why you think its not right for vets to mark up their drugs. You haven't explained why you don't think this is reasonable. Forget the price of their services, I just want to know why you don't think its reasonable to mark up the cost of the products they sell.

Exactly. I don't understand why they are being referred to as hidden costs. They are no more hidden than anything else you buy in the world.

They don't need to send directly to VetPath... Most of the main pathology groups will take the blood and send it on to WA, so the vet doesn't need to open a new account with a new lab. It will cost more if they don't have a direct account with VetPath, but I'm not sure many vets would be willing to open a new account with a new pathology company and organise shipping just for one client.

When we buy our stock order, we get invoiced for everything. On the invoice, there are lots of different prices. The list price, the list price plus GST, a few others, plus the RRP that has probably been put in place by the manufacturer. By saying you don't agree with the mark-up on medications and suggesting that you have to get the medications after your consult is implying you don't think its fair. You also didn't comment on another one of my comments about repeat medications. What about patients who come in for a consult and discover their dog or cat has arthritis and get put on meloxicam or carprofen? Those clients will come back every few months to buy more medication, without the need for a consult. So how would you suggest we make a profit from that?

You can always refuse the medication a vet prescribes. Perhaps you should be a little less ignorant and educate yourself a little via the internet and books and you would have an idea of what your vet is going to prescribe. I usually walk into the vets consult knowing what is wrong and what meds are needed. I feel so sorry for vets. They are the equivalant to human doctors but get much less respect and people are always bagging them out for how much they charge. Yes there are some vets that do overcharge but the majority do not. If you are not happy with the prices your vet charges go somewhere else. I have been involved in a profession that deals with pet owners and started this thread in response to a number of concerns relayed to me. I was hoping to gain a better insight into the general perception of vet charges both by those in the profession and the end users. I am not sure how you can reply with such a judgmental statement about me from the limited information provided. And people in the vet profession are trying to give you some insight but you are choosing to ignore it. When we buy our stock, it comes with a RRP. Most vets will charge around this price so even if you did shop around, you're unlikely to find a vet who charges much less for medication. The main differences in the costs of medications between vets would be the dispensing fee. I still don't quite understand why you are targeting vets over any other industry? Can you explain why you think vets shouldn't make money from their profession? Do you complain to your local butcher about the mark-up? Why do people seem to think vets shouldn't be able to make a living from what they do? Did you know they are one of the lowest paid professions? People seem to think they should do all their work for cheap because they love animals. Well, my mechanic loves cars, hence why he's a mechanic, but he certainly doesn't fix my car for cheap or give me parts for cheap when my car is sick. If you think it's unfair, all I can suggest you do, is go to uni, and get yourself a vet degree. Then you can diagnose your animals yourself and buy medications at cost price. You can also work 12hour days, weekends, do overtime without being paid, work public holidays, and deal with people who complain about the cost of your knowledge and services.

I'm not sure if this has changed, but I believe the vet surgeons board had guidelines that said a vet only had the privilege of writing scripts when there was no suitable veterinary alternative. It doesn't seem to be enforced a lot, and I'm not sure whether it was just their preference or whether it was law, but for this reason, you may find not all vets are willing to do this, and it may come back to haunt them down the track...

The 10% is a notional figure I put forward as a contrast to the 100% plus that the industry operates on. There are examples of 300% mark up. Is this excessive? When you visit a vet you are not in a position to "shop around" for the best price as the drugs are only given after the diagnosis. I guess if its purely money that's important to you, and not the quality of the service you are getting, then by all means shop around. Some clinics might have a lower dispensing fee on their drugs to others, but they will make up this price somewhere else - maybe in the consult fee, or the cost of the drugs. By all means shop around, but I doubt many vets will be loyal to you in return. Our good clients trust us. And they appreciate the time it takes us to count up pills and type up labels for them. And they don't balk at the costs of these drugs because they trust that we are looking after them. They know they can call us at anytime and speak to the vets over the phone and essentially get a free consult. They're loyal to us, and we're loyal to them.

awwwww thanks

PMing you ruthless.. Unfortunately it's not really always that simple to give a quote and do a surgery without doing a consult first. It sucks, but you really need to have a good look at what you're dealing with and do your own examination of the animal before you put it under GA. Specially with lumps, you really need to see it first before you can give a quote.

So you are saying that your friend would have been happy if the medicine had been charged at $22, and the appointment had cost $84? Or did she just want to pay less money overall? She was happy to pay the bill as the vet told her the medication was expensive but had a long shelf life. Why not have the bill reflect the cost of the service; $75 plus $30 for the medication. And so what happens when the people return for repeat prescriptions? We dish out the drugs at a loss?

Yeah, they can only fit so much into each suspension... We have three different ASITs... but when you start you will get 3 vials of EACH ASIT in three different doses: start on the lowest and then build up to the full potency... So I suppose it would depend on how they label them... they might count the 3 of one type as "one" because it's just the one vaccine?? Be interesting to see what you get!! <G> Actually you should be able to have a rough tell from price... but you may not want to post that up... here (and I'm sure it varies from place to place) we pay about $255 per vaccine... Don't mind posting price, but I'm getting it cost price through work so not sure if that will help? Was $250 I think... Hmm, hard to tell then hey? That may cover three at cost price... I don't know... If it does, I'm going to have to start working for a vet clinic to get cost!! Yeah I'm pretty lucky - we scored the test for free, plus got 20% off that price too cause these are our first ever order of the injections!! I'd be thinking that with a $250 cost price, the 'normal' price would become about $400-450? Ah well, I'll know what we've got within a week!!

I find that price excessively high and is probably about double what we'd charge! I hope that it isn't anything serious

Yeah, they can only fit so much into each suspension... We have three different ASITs... but when you start you will get 3 vials of EACH ASIT in three different doses: start on the lowest and then build up to the full potency... So I suppose it would depend on how they label them... they might count the 3 of one type as "one" because it's just the one vaccine?? Be interesting to see what you get!! <G> Actually you should be able to have a rough tell from price... but you may not want to post that up... here (and I'm sure it varies from place to place) we pay about $255 per vaccine... Don't mind posting price, but I'm getting it cost price through work so not sure if that will help? Was $250 I think...