stormie

No worries... will see if I can get them to email through some stuff and I'll post it up here!

I go back a long way with heaps of vets, I have built more vets surgeries clients lists than you know,boy! have I ever. They all nearlly turn-out the same,I think it is in the blood.I dont mind not doing vets blades they send them with puss/gunk all over them,I am a sharpener not a cleaner,vets should be ashamed,please dont use my services,maybe you had better buy your own sharpening machine, or go where you pay more so you will be able to justify your services prices. Boom Boom. This is what I mean... if that's how you really feel about vets, then why do you want their business and encourage it with a discount?

assuming they haven't all read this thread and know what you really think of them!

I'm not doubting his work. I'm sure he offers a great service. I just found it amusing that he's spent a good part of this thread bagging vets and their charges, yet will offer those who can prove to be vets, a discount on his services, so assuming those who aren't vets, pay more!

I can call our reps to find out the full deal on it tomorrow if you like

Raz it's for your own good. I've had students like you; not only do they want you to spoon feed them but want you to chew it as well. It looks like I will get the bread next time Raz is cooking. Anyway Raz/Poodle I have to go to work, a truck load of work just turned up, I will stick my nose in later.Be kind to each other. Seeing you're so anti-vets (think you used the words pet hate?), why do you try to get their business? To make money perhaps? eta: and do you offer vets a discount?! What about your other clients? Surely that's not very fair to them!! So are you overcharging everyone else? Or undercharging vets? My question was to you, nicestman77. Regarding your business. Do you offer discounts on your clipper blade sharpening services to vet clinics? To whom was that comment directed at? Poodle? Nicestman77? Thank you for your kindness. My pleasure - am simply returning the kindness you have showed to us

Raz it's for your own good. I've had students like you; not only do they want you to spoon feed them but want you to chew it as well. It looks like I will get the bread next time Raz is cooking. Anyway Raz/Poodle I have to go to work, a truck load of work just turned up, I will stick my nose in later.Be kind to each other. :p Seeing you're so anti-vets (think you used the words pet hate?), why do you try to get their business? To make money perhaps? eta: and do you offer vets a discount?! What about your other clients? Surely that's not very fair to them!! So are you overcharging everyone else? Or undercharging vets? My question was to you, nicestman77. Regarding your business. Do you offer discounts on your clipper blade sharpening services to vet clinics? To whom was that comment directed at? Poodle? Nicestman77?

Raz it's for your own good. I've had students like you; not only do they want you to spoon feed them but want you to chew it as well. It looks like I will get the bread next time Raz is cooking. :D :D Anyway Raz/Poodle I have to go to work, a truck load of work just turned up, I will stick my nose in later.Be kind to each other. Seeing you're so anti-vets (think you used the words pet hate?), why do you try to get their business? To make money perhaps? eta: and do you offer vets a discount?! What about your other clients? Surely that's not very fair to them!! So are you overcharging everyone else? Or undercharging vets?

Ouch looks sore Then only thing I am thinking is the positioning of where it is. I guess it's possible it happened during the surgery whilst he was on his back if he was put on a really hot HWB, but I can't imagine they would be used much in theatre as they wouldn't be very stable and the patient would be floating around on it. Most cradles I have seen used are only really heated around the edges, not directly underneath, and the heat mats I wouldn't think would get hot enough to cause a burn. During recovery, they are not put on their backs. And if he did end up on his back it would be because he was conscious and therefore would be able to move and roll off his back. I'm not saying it isn't a burn, but with all those things in mind, I would be less inclined to think it would be.

AVA only has control over paid up members. More than 2/3 of the vets in this country refuse to join that organisation. So here's another novel approach - only use the services of an AVA member. Goodluck finding one. That's interesting. I wonder why? Because vets don't like being told what to do? Perhaps because the AVA doesn't approve of hidden charges and supports full cost disclosure? you're kidding right? I still don't understand what the problem is. What you guys are asking, if for vets to reduce the mark up on their products they sell. The mark-ups have been calculated to ensure they earn a profit. Lose this profit, and your local vet goes out of business. If this thread hasn't gone kaput by tomorrow, I'll let you know what the REAL mark up is on certain things first hand, not from 'your mates'. I'm genuinely curious - why is it that GPs, lawyers, builders, plumbers, electricians etc etc are keen to join the relevant governing body that endorses their work and in return requires that some guidelines be followed, whereas vets are NOT willing to do so? because it costs them a fortune to join and they don't get anything out of it! Isn't membership of professional associations tax deductible? Hmmm ... maybe the AVA should advertise that their members don't price gouge on medication! I think you should find out a bit more about the AVA and what its there for before you start making assumptions. When you go to the chemist for your drugs, you are going to a shop. They just sell you the drugs that your doctor has prescribed. They dont often talk to you about the drugs they are selling you. You give them your script, they stick a label on it, you pay and walk out. They just sell stuff - its all they do so they have very little overheads. A vet, on the other hand, does the consult, decides on the best medication, its suitability and explains the medication for you. Chemists also have a much faster turnover of drugs than vets do. We have to spend money on drugs which could be sitting on the shelf until they expire, just in case an animal needs them. And because of this, we can't buy in bulk like chemists can and do.

AVA only has control over paid up members. More than 2/3 of the vets in this country refuse to join that organisation. So here's another novel approach - only use the services of an AVA member. Goodluck finding one. That's interesting. I wonder why? Because vets don't like being told what to do? Perhaps because the AVA doesn't approve of hidden charges and supports full cost disclosure? you're kidding right? I still don't understand what the problem is. What you guys are asking, if for vets to reduce the mark up on their products they sell. The mark-ups have been calculated to ensure they earn a profit. Lose this profit, and your local vet goes out of business. If this thread hasn't gone kaput by tomorrow, I'll let you know what the REAL mark up is on certain things first hand, not from 'your mates'. I'm genuinely curious - why is it that GPs, lawyers, builders, plumbers, electricians etc etc are keen to join the relevant governing body that endorses their work and in return requires that some guidelines be followed, whereas vets are NOT willing to do so? because it costs them a fortune to join and they don't get anything out of it!

So not 10% like you suggest vets use. I see. Puggy was spot on. So what's the product? I like to support Australian companies and I'll keep an eye out. I give advice to clients for free and only profit on the sale of goods. Clients can shop around and I buy if they choose it is open pricing. I don't supply the goods and hit them with $300 for freight. I only charge the actual freight cost and not the cost of booking and packaging. I don't think you realise that vets do the same thing. Eg. Joe Blow brings Scruffy in for a consultation. Scruffy seems to be itchy and has smelly skin. Vet does some basic tests and decides Scruffy needs some antibiotics to clear up skin infection. Joe Blow says thanks and goes home. And end of course of AB's, Joe Blow calls up his trusty vet and speaks to him over the phone - Scruffy stopped itching while on AB's but has started up again. Trusty vet tells Joe Blow that he might need a longer course of AB's as well as some antihistamines and tells him he'll organise for the drugs to be waiting at reception and he just needs to come by and pick them up. This course of treatment works, and Joe Blow just needs to call up when he needs some more antihistamines (and yes, Trusty Vet did suggest he could use human ones but Joe Blow would rather use the vet ones cause they are all labelled and easy to use). All he paid for was one consult, yet he techincally had two. Just had to pay for the drugs the second time. Happens all the time.

AVA only has control over paid up members. More than 2/3 of the vets in this country refuse to join that organisation. So here's another novel approach - only use the services of an AVA member. Goodluck finding one. That's interesting. I wonder why? Because vets don't like being told what to do? Perhaps because the AVA doesn't approve of hidden charges and supports full cost disclosure? you're kidding right? I still don't understand what the problem is. What you guys are asking, if for vets to reduce the mark up on their products they sell. The mark-ups have been calculated to ensure they earn a profit. Lose this profit, and your local vet goes out of business. If this thread hasn't gone kaput by tomorrow, I'll let you know what the REAL mark up is on certain things first hand, not from 'your mates'.

Not so much the wealthy, but only for those who can afford it - like anything in life really. I'm sure there'd be tonnes of people out there who'd love to have their own horse, but they don't, because they can't afford the costs. My agistors don't give me a discount on my horses board and feed, they offer a service for those who can afford to use it. That's their price and if I can't afford that weekly cost, then either I shouldn't have a horse, or I need to find somewhere else. Is that not reasonable? Is it fair for someone to take on the responsibility of a pet knowing they can't afford it? I do belive it is a privilege to own a pet and not everyone's given right. Either you can budget for the costs, or you can't - it's really that simple. If the average person owns a pet, what is the most costly vet procedure they could be expected to pay? Would anyone out there know this? They could pay anything! In this day and age with the things that specialists can do, they could pay up to $20k! The average person should have insurance, that way, when something unexpected occurs, money won't be too much of a problem Insurance what a solution. The vets will charge more because you have insurance, the insurance company needs to make a profit. Great for the consumer. There really is no pleasing you is there. We don't know of our clients who has insurance. We charge them for what we did and many send the forms away themselves. So no, we don't charge those with insurance more. Paranoid much?

That's a novel approach, Paula. I was thinking exactly the same thing. So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? The pensioner who lives from one pension cheque to the next isn't entitled to the company of a pet because they can't afford the inflated medication charges that vets think are their due "because they have a university degree"? We are not arguing here about the consultation fees of vets and vet specialists. They should be (and are) on par with GPs and specialist medical practitioners. We are debating the justification of charging inflated prices for medication simply to shore up the bottom line. If nothing else this leaves vets wide open to accusations of over medicating our pets. If some vets can't make the living they aspire to by such back-door methods, perhaps they should think of getting out of the business. After all, at least in the cities, there seems to be more vets than GPs. Unfortunatey Mum to Emma this has been stated several times and they just done get it. Charge the true cost of the service, I have said this numerous times. I do not have a problem with vet bills, and was about to have my dogs cateracts removed costing $4000. I had the total costing of the procedure prior and the drugs were a minor component. You failed to comment on the people who have a consultation, and then return for repeat prescriptions. Why should Joe Blow pay more for his consult, to pay for the many clients that come back each month to stock up on arthritis treatments, or their atopy meds? We have the mark up on the drugs, to keep the consult fee down. As has been said before, not everyone that comes in for a consult goes away with drugs!!

Not so much the wealthy, but only for those who can afford it - like anything in life really. I'm sure there'd be tonnes of people out there who'd love to have their own horse, but they don't, because they can't afford the costs. My agistors don't give me a discount on my horses board and feed, they offer a service for those who can afford to use it. That's their price and if I can't afford that weekly cost, then either I shouldn't have a horse, or I need to find somewhere else. Is that not reasonable? Is it fair for someone to take on the responsibility of a pet knowing they can't afford it? I do belive it is a privilege to own a pet and not everyone's given right. Either you can budget for the costs, or you can't - it's really that simple. If the average person owns a pet, what is the most costly vet procedure they could be expected to pay? Would anyone out there know this? They could pay anything! In this day and age with the things that specialists can do, they could pay up to $20k! The thing is, when you make the decision to buy a pet, anything could happen. You could be one of the lucky ones who buys a puppy, gets it desexed, vaccinated etc, and it never has anything go wrong until it gets old and needs treatment for its arthritis. OR you could get a puppy that jumps off the back verandah and breaks both its front legs. Or have one that develops hip dysplasia early needing life long treatment, or atopy which can very expensive to treat. People need to do their research before they buy a pet and make themselves aware of what possible costs they could be about to incur. It's like when you buy a car or a house. You work out how much that car or house is going to cost you and you make a decision as to whether or not you can afford it. The same should be done when people think about buying a pet. Take into account everything that could go wrong, and if you can afford it, then great, but if you can't, rather than go ahead and complain about the fees, maybe put it off until you know you can budget for it. The average person should have insurance, that way, when something unexpected occurs, money won't be too much of a problem

Not so much the wealthy, but only for those who can afford it - like anything in life really. I'm sure there'd be tonnes of people out there who'd love to have their own horse, but they don't, because they can't afford the costs. My agistors don't give me a discount on my horses board and feed, they offer a service for those who can afford to use it. That's their price and if I can't afford that weekly cost, then either I shouldn't have a horse, or I need to find somewhere else. Is that not reasonable? Is it fair for someone to take on the responsibility of a pet knowing they can't afford it? I do belive it is a privilege to own a pet and not everyone's given right. Either you can budget for the costs, or you can't - it's really that simple.

A gimp mask would be the way to go - that way the vets dont have to listen to the whingers complaining about markups while they do their job and treat the animals. If you have ever addressed a group of people polarised by a profession or a religion then you know how difficult it is to discuss an issue using logical argument. Replies about other businesses that derive there sole income from the sale of goods, not knowing what coles pay for lamb (you can get a ball park figure if you follow market pricing) the amount of schooling and it goes on. Many replies have made assumptions about me that have no basis of fact. I suggest you go and talk to the general public and break down a vet bill and discuss the mark up of medications. See what reaction you get. But that in itself wouldnt be a true representation of figures. If you were going to show the public the mark up on drugs, then I would also want to be showing them the annual expenditures of running the clinic. Poodle, I'm still not sure what you're getting at with this topic. The mark-ups are there because thats how the business needs to be run to make a profit. There are HUGE outgoing costs to running a clinic and I can say without a doubt, if we didn't have the mark-ups on our drugs, we would be running the business at a loss. Isn't the point of running any business, to make a profit and keep it running? I'd understand what you were saying if all vets were millionaires, but the fact is, they're not. The mark-ups are what they are, to keep things running at a profit. The RRP has been set by the manufacturer for a reason, like with anything that you buy in a store. Like with anything, until you are in the profession and have a FIRST hand glimpse of how things are run, you can't really complain because you just don't understand what's involved. Mum to Emma - can you please give me an example of huge mark-ups on medications. When you buy eye drops or whatever from the vet, how do YOU know personally, that there's been a massive mark up? What are you comparing it to? I genuinely want to know because lots of people seem to be comparing the price of drugs sold at a vet to them being sold through a chemist, and this is by no way a justification because vets don't pay the same price as the chemists do for their drugs.

If you don't know by now what I do I recon you will never work it out. Don't email vets advertising your services by any chance do you?

Nicestman, Poodle and Emma's Mum - can I ask what you all do for work?

I feel for you Rappie, and the other vets and specialists who frequent dol to hand out FREE advice to those in need. Having people criticize your profession, knowing how hard you have worked to get where you are, knowing that only a small percentage of the population are even intelligent enough to get there, is really low. I'd love for some of these people having a bash to be thrown in the deep and be a vet for a week.

I dont know what sort of vets you go to but mine do. I'm also given a worst case scenario re costs, but that wasnt the OP's concern. She simply resents the fact that vets markup pharmaceuticals. Big deal. My baker charges $2.50 for a loaf of bread that costs him 20 cents in ingredients to make. So what - he's running a business not a charity. Now raz, I have baked bread, and it costs more than $0.20 for ingredience, there is gas/oil equipment/a girl to sell it, rent, and so on. If the baker was a vet you would be paying about $10 for that loaf. Did you go to uni for 5+ years to learn how to bake that loaf? Why not have a think about all the things vets need to be able to do, all the difference species they need to be able to treat. Would your GP know how to operate and pin your broken leg? What about dental procedures? Or eye procedures?

You didn't know?? Not to mention being able to poo money so you can shout all your clients their treatments!! For all those complaining - when you buy a pair of jeans, do you ask how much they cost the store to buy them? Or for them to be made in a sweat shop overseas somewhere? Coles and Woolies don't tell you how much they paid the farmer for their little lambies. They just charge you what they like. In fact, I don't know of any profession, service, etc, where they willingly disclose what they bought the item for before selling it onto you. And just because your mechanic mate buys parts for $x.xx, doesn't mean thats what the mechanic you used paid for them. And yes, there is a RRP for vet drugs and most vets would stick pretty close to this.

Can I suggest you look at finding a good puppy preschool so you can start to learn about training him now? Don't just find one run by vet nurses either - try to find one that is run by people with a sound understanding of dog behaviour and training. Perhaps if you say what area you are in someone might be able to recommend a good one for you?

It's possible he started licking for whatever reasons with the bitch around - maybe being anxious etc, and irritated them a little bit and thus kept licking. He might be licking them now because they are sore and inflammed and is just making them worse, similar to a lick granuloma. He might need some anti-inflammatories to take the irritation away and hopefully stop the cycle.