stormie

just realised you have the same home made diet. What were her Urea/Creatinine levels? Did they give you any medication as well? Ipakitine is one supplement we give to most of our 'renal' clients - its a phosphate binder, so binds to the phosphorus so it's not absorbed as much, and also adds calcium.

Ok finally found it..

Yellowgirl this really sucks I really feel for you having two sick like this. We used to have a Home Made Renal Diet Recipe at our old clinic. From memory, it was actually written by Hills for those who wanted to make their own food. I'm not sure we have it here at the new clinic though, but I will not go off to research and see what I can find for you

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's like complaining to Woolworths because you can't buy Coke in a carton of 13. It's not Woolworth's fault that Coke only make them in a 12 - that's how they're sold and it says not for individual sale, so that's how Woolworths need to sell them. It's the same for us. If people want to push for the new protocol, its the vaccine companies that need to be targeted, to enable vets to use their products the way the public want. It shouldn't be up to the vets to risk their practice by using it 'incorrectly'.

Of course, but the current annual vaccines were only originally tested after 12months. They still had immunity at the 12month mark so they were registered for use every 12months. They have NOT done the studies to see whether they last longer than 12months - not in the early days anyway. If there was conclusive scientific evidence that vaccinating every 12 months was the CAUSE of diseases, we would all know about it. As I said, it's a theory - the AVA have said that there's thought that there's a link, but nothing is scientifically proven. If you have proper scientific studies which conclusively demonstrate that annual vaccination is the PROVEN cause of such diseases, then please, show me - I'm happy to be proven wrong. The local specialist that I referred to has a special interest in Immune Mediated Diseases. If there was a confirmed link, he'd know about it. I believe there is more concern over the SR12 actually. Yes, oakway, I'm in the veterinary industry. But I think I have a pretty good understanding on how things are from outsiders. As I said, out clinic is on the new protocol, we don't push certain brands of food etc. And I'm sure many on DOL would attest to that. But why not take the time to look at things from the Veterinary point of few? What you're asking is that all vets use vaccinations as an Off Label dose. I can tell you from experience with other vets, that whilst they vaccines are still labelled for annual use, that's how the vets will be using them. One vaccine company openly told us that they would not offer any support to a vet who uses their annual vaccines triennially. They will not be following the new guidelines themselves and are quite against triennial use, so their vaccines will continue to be labelled for 12month use. People will sue for anything these days. They complain about fees, they sue if a vet, a simple human being, makes a mistake or misdiagnosis, or doesn't get it right the first time. People come in telling the vet how they want the surgery to be done, what drugs they want them to use. They go to uni for 5-6 years to get a degree, only to end up in an industry where they are being dictated by their clients how they should be doing things. I am all for the new protocol, oakway, but I'm against vets copping the blame because they won't use a drug off label. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't, and in this day and age, where people will take them to the Board over everything and anything, why wouldn't they be trying to do everything 'by the book' to ensure they've followed the guidelines for use for the drugs, to ensure they have that backup in case they get taken to the board.

You can get different chew refills to go in them, and I think ones have a hole in the middle designed to fit a 'screw' shaped treat as well, so you can put the 'screw' in through one treat and out through the other, sort of locking it in place? Found them!

I don't get the point of this. Vets are slowly changing over to the new protocol, but it's not going to happen overnight. We still send out annual reminders even though we're on the new protocol, because a) the clients should be able to make up their own minds about what they want, and b) many still need the annual KC to go boarding. When they come in, we discuss the new protocol. This is only new to Australia. Sure, it's been happening over the world for a while, but it's new here. Many vets in practice would have been around in the times before there were vaccines, when parvo and other diseases were rife. When the vaccine first became available, people literally lined up down the street to have their pets done. Annual vaccination has reduced parvo significantly and whilst annual injections may not be warranted, it's going to take some time for these vets to be comfortable enough to change over the new system, in case it doesn't work. I also don't believe there is any hard core scientific proof that vaccinations are causing all these problems. Yes, there are theories but I do not believe as yet they are 100% linked. I know our local Specialists does not believe vaccines are the CAUSE of immune mediated diseases, but rather the hit on the immune system by the vaccine can TRIGGER a disease to surface that was there all along. Instead of complaining about vets, why aren't people complaining about the vaccine companies who refuse to do the testing to find out the true duration of their vaccines? People are forever whinging about vets using certain drugs 'off label' because they're not registered for that use. That letter is calling for consumer protection and regulation of vets, but by enforcing vets use a drug OFF LABEL. How does that make sense? Regulating vets to use drugs in a way that is not registered for use?? Get vaccine companies to pay for the studies and have their ANNUAL vaccines registered for use for 3 years, rather than creating a new one. But they won't do it because it's going to cost them money.

How frustrating for you. I would probably be going for a referral now to a specialist - either internal medicine or neuro, particularly with the seizures. Hope you get some answers soon

I think you also need to prove that there's a Nuisance Order or something out on your dog? Or maybe that's just in NSW, but I thought we needed that plus a Stat Dec saying X will otherwise be pts.

Rice is fine for an 'emergency meal' - it's quite digestible and used on dogs with sensitive stomachs for a reason. I'd use the rice over the pasta. I've occasionally been caught without meat and just cooked up some rice and cracked a couple of eggs into it for a tasty, quick, filling meal. Not something I'd recommend for more than a few days, but if you're looking not spend any money and use what you have, rice is perfect. :D

oh no! we're on at 3.15 on friday Oh I hope Porp gets a hot sexy man model

Pappy they asked if I had a preference for days which I do, between thurs and fri, so she said she should be able to organise that for me. She's really lovely, the person you email. Did she say anything about payment too? Hey, I have a long way to travel! You get a PA gift voucher I think?

Pappy they asked if I had a preference for days which I do, between thurs and fri, so she said she should be able to organise that for me. She's really lovely, the person you email.

He wants ORBIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you haven't already, maybe post this in the Bichon Sub forum?

I agree Huski. Liebhunde: Liebhunde - how can you criticize Registered breeders (not all, but some) like you just did, saying how some are producing terrible examples of the breed with many known health problems, yet ADMIRE the OP for breeding a litter of pups, with no knowledge about the parents breeding background or health status? It's quite possible the OP has produced a litter which will be rife with health problems. Of course there are some terrible Reg breeders out there, many of which are nothing but puppy farmers and I'm sure there have been some lovely natured dogs bred by BYB who naively bred their dogs together because they had a lovely nature. I've seen some beautiful dogs, one in particular, who was BYB and whilst she didn't fit the Dane breed standard, had an amazing temperament. Unfortunately, she died very young of cancer. So maybe you're just lucky your girl has been so healthy, because I could name a few BYB Danes who haven't been so lucky. But at the end of the day, this particular breed has many known health problems and they are VERY real. There is every chance one or some of these puppies could have one of those problems. Some of these pups may end up with HD and be barely unable to walk by 2yo. Or they may go blind. Or both. Yes, I think the OP got a bashing before anything was known. But I'm sure the OP is also smart enough to know what she was doing. I don't support any type of unethical breeding, regardless or whether the breeder is registered or not. There are plenty of lovely natured dogs in the pounds and rescue needing homes, so I don't see the need for anyone to be producing puppies willy nilly, particularly when they have little knowledge on breeding and genetics. And for what it's worth, I actually think it's cruel breeding any dogs together without performing health testing, whether they are Reg breeders or not. Bringing puppies into the world which may end up with crippling diseases, knowing there was something you could have done, but didn't, is nothing but cruelty.

Kazzie - I have a genuine question for you and it's not to have a go at you, it's to hear your views really. Can I ask, why did you decide to breed your dogs? What was the reasoning behind it? Was it an accidental mating? Did you want to see what its like to go through the whole process? Did you think your dogs were excellent examples of the breed? I am genuinely interested in your answer. I guess I just don't understand, really. I mean, I thought maybe you just had no idea about the dog world. But you've said you worked in a pet shop and said that like it was a bad thing, so you would have an idea that pet shops aren't really the nicest places and often support puppy farms. So I just don't understand why, with your whole background, you would think it's a good idea to bring more puppies into this world, that could possibly have health problems? As a nurse, surely you would have seen young puppies with bad hips or elbows who had terrible quality of life or were put to sleep young? Same with PRA? So I guess I just don't understand what your idea was behind making all these extra lives?

Kazzie - I can understand you're probably really off DOL, but truly, you should stick around. I've been Vet Nursing for 5years and I truly contribute atleast half my knowledge from DOL. There are people on this forum who are just massive balls of knowledge who can provide you with information and help that many vets wouldn't know, particularly when it comes to whelping and raising litters. Don't ask for this post to be deleted - it may not be the most pleasant for you, but there's information for others on hip and elbow scoring, PRA etc, so leaving it open may mean that someone else considering breeding may read and take into account. So stay around, join the breed subforums and keep reading. It's really a great place under all the bitchiness!

Threads like this upset me for a number of reason. Firstly there's the obvious of a litter of pups on the ground that probably shouldn't be. But secondly, the attitudes. Nope, we don't support BYB's here, but seriously, could we not try to educate? There was a time not all that long ago, where I didn't really know the different between a Registered breeder and a BYBer. I actually didn't know there were CC's and breed clubs and breed standards. Now yep, I did discover it all before I got Orbit, but I'm still learning years later. What if these people are like me? What if they actually thought what they were doing was the normal? The OP said the puppies would be registered, which obviously they won't be, but that to me sounds like a lack of knowledge where the OP actually thought she'd be able to register the puppies. To hear people calling her a liar? Maybe she's just naive? Maybe had no idea it was done any other way? And if you don't know that there is another way, what are you going to research? Just because she's been a member it doesn't mean she's been actively reading for that time. No, we can't support BYB's and encourage them. But the pups are born and we can hardly put them back in. There's a difference between encouraging and offering help. Perhaps if a different attitude had been taken, education given as to WHY the litter may not have been a good idea, what health issues should probably have been tested for, the OP would have gained not only an understanding of registered breeders, but also a respect for them. But instead we've pushed someone away who will join all the others in thinking registered breeders are snobs. Awesome. eta: The fact she's an ex vet nurse means nothing. In fact, I hear of many nurses who support byb's and encourage their clients to breed. Because unfortunately, so do many vets, so that's what they learn. I am very pro purebred and encourage our clients when given the chance to buy from Reg breeders and not to breed. Our other nurse, on the other hand, has no interest in learning about breeders and thinks if you're buying cross breeds/DD's then its ok to buy them from a petshop or BYB. Chalk and Cheese...

Pebbles - did anyone flex his neck? What about spinal pain? I've seen many dogs go quiet and behave like that who have hurt their necks or spine. Sometimes you don't always see anything on xrays either, but it can be worth it in case. If he had abdominal pain you would think it unlikely he'd want to eat, which makes me think its more in the spine somewhere. Hope you get some answers soon!

Well when you work out what you are talking about, please let us know and we can reply more appropriately I'd like to know what you're talking about as well. As you said, you cant explain it any better. Best stop now I think. To the OP - yeah it gets a bit tough when your pooches are going under GA but as others said, they bounce back. It's OK to worry about them. Cheer yourself up by posting some photos of the little dude. Lucy's Mama was merely just trying to say that she felt the same feelings as the OP, as being a woman, she had maternal urges, so there was a part of her that felt guilty of depriving her dog of the maternal instinct to breed. But she explained that she knew that wasn't logical and the dog didn't feel that, but didn't stop the thought entering her mind. Still doesnt make sense. A dog doesnt think - oh noessss, I'm about to go under the knife and wont be able to have babies. Or does it? I dont know. Maybe ask the cute little latino in your siggy. I thought Lucy's Mama kinda said in her post that she knew the dog wasn't thinking that. But just that as a woman who had the maternal feeling, had an emotional thought about the dog feeling the same, but then thought logically, knowing the dog wouldn't be thinking that. ..but I'll ask him for you on our next date

My money's on an anal gland abscess mmmm tasty

Well when you work out what you are talking about, please let us know and we can reply more appropriately I'd like to know what you're talking about as well. As you said, you cant explain it any better. Best stop now I think. To the OP - yeah it gets a bit tough when your pooches are going under GA but as others said, they bounce back. It's OK to worry about them. Cheer yourself up by posting some photos of the little dude. Lucy's Mama was merely just trying to say that she felt the same feelings as the OP, as being a woman, she had maternal urges, so there was a part of her that felt guilty of depriving her dog of the maternal instinct to breed. But she explained that she knew that wasn't logical and the dog didn't feel that, but didn't stop the thought entering her mind.

Lucy's Mama I get what you mean, don't worry It can be hard for some people to separate human emotion from their animals. Obviously it's not ideal, but some find it harder than others. So, if you are having trouble separating the two, try thinking of it this way. Imagine spending your life having both sexual and maternal instincts/urges, but never being able to act on them. Ever. You're taking away those urges and making life much easier. Try not to feel guilty. They really don't have any idea what's happening and should be pretty out of it with pain medication etc. The following day you'll barely even know anything happened to him.

Oh yay!!! Hi Jed!!!!! So glad to see this post! Welcome back!!