Natsu chan

All this is so depressing. It seems to me that anyone who doesn't breed on a large scale are screwed. That's how it reads. I have letters here and no idea where to send them, any suggestions?

It's a 6V, Katz. Down the bottom the label says Changzhou Sanhuan Electron Electric Factory. Hope that helps.

Tess if you get stuck feel free to pm me

Puggerup lot's of places and orgs need helpers! If it's dogs particularly then the kennel clubs, breed rescues, obedience clubs etc need assistance all the time. Everything from helping out in the library at KCC to stewarding or helping out with the dogs themselves. Puffing billy is great if you go that way pm me as I know someone who's been involved with PB for a long time and I'm sure he could help you out. If nothing else volunteering is good for the soul and without all the volunteers who help out Australia would be in trouble.

Actually I think there would be more people willing to stand up there with you both than you think. Me for one, and I can think of quite a few more. People are starting to realise that the RSPCA is not all it's meant to be and if they knew the reality about the powers they actually have their would be many more.

Oh! Winpara do you know who was the RUBOB in the smoothies? Thanks everyone for putting up the results

Beaglelover this was a method I use to use with one of the "silent" dog whistles, it worked really well for when the girls were just barking for the sake of it. I suggested it to someone recently (who has the same breed) and their vet told them not to do it as it was cruel and dogs whistles are inhumane! I think you can buy a device that runs on the same method I can't think what it's called though.

Yep I agree with that. He's great with the dogs and a really lovely guy too. He's been very patient with my girl who believes very strongly in passive resistance.

The proposed bill that came about after the talks Steve went to. I know it's on DOL some where. This is the one that will in all probability be put forward and is the one most of the people in this thread are referring too, in conjunction with the COP in NSW which I am let to believe will probably be duplicated here.

I'm so sorry to hear this. Vicsta I'm so sorry, there's nothing quite like the shaft that hits when we loose our mums. Please remember to take care of yourself as well as your lovely dogs.

Another thought occurs, is how is this bill as it stands going to impact on primary producers and the breeders of working dogs, be they herding dogs or other wise? They seem to be completely forgotten in all of this and they are essential and impossible to replace. All of these bills are being written and proposed with so little fore thought. Has anyone even consulted the farming community about this stuff? I'm sure they'd be impacted upon given I've yet to meet a single desexed working dog.

The thing is though well all need each other. Puppies don't materialise out of thin air, they need to be bred and raised and most of us want puppies who have time and love and care invested into them. Don't we? Breeders can't keep everything they breed especially in this day and age especially if they have a breed that has larger litters and let's face it the little extra from selling the puppies you can't keep does help keep it sustainable. Most breeders simply could not continue to breed if they didn't get some of the costs back from breeding by selling some of the pups. We need each other, even breeders were once not breeders and had to get that first dog from some where. The arguments and problems are coming from the fact that the bill in question is attempting to do far too much all at once and therefore isn't able to make the reasonable allowances required to ensure that the sort of breeders we want to continue to provide us with our pets are not scared off or squashed out of existence. Yes the Kennel clubs need to step up to the plate but they are mostly volunteers remember and it is a difficult and painful transition to make. Vicdogs was already committed to the Royal long before this rally was put in place which may have been part of the issue, I honestly have no idea. I think they missed an opportunity to get free publicity and some extra leverage for getting allowances for their members. They are trying but it needs to be much more and quicker. I think everyone agrees about that. If we could just focus on large commercial puppy farms to begin with, and putting an appeal system in place for the RSPCA and educating people about why they shouldn't breed their pets, there would be a lot less fighting all round. And yes I know people will disagree with me on that but things are better done little by little and with due consideration than in the mad rush that is so common in Victoria.

Oh dear, I must be mad the only thing that would stop me is extreme heat or Noah's Ark floating past! Having said that always take the conditions into account and only do what it is safe to. My girl is another who has gained a pass in a thunderstorm, and this is a dog who really doesn't like thunder. So clearly the madness has it's rewards. My attitude is if Miss Pants is happy to go for a walk then she can do some work too.

What Asal is saying is that the RSPCA have the power to seize animals already baised on the views of the inspector that a dog is in need of immediate veterinary care. They have had these powers for I believe 20 odd years. They only use them when it is financially conducive for them to do so. This is something the general public is not aware of. They do not have to charge you for anything to do this either and even if you are innocent they are still entitled to give you the bill for all kennelling and vet costs. Part of the law being proposed gives the RSPCA the right to seize animals and demand payment for kennelling etc up front, if the owner can not they must sign the dogs over. This is before any charges are laid. Given that there is no court of appeal why are we pushing to allow this too when clearly there are issues with the RSPCA abusing their power already? That is I believe what Asal is trying to say. To be honest I agree. I think that part of the bill is a minefield for everyone and a bonanza for the RSPCA.

I think breeders have every right to feel anxious and worried. The RSPCA and the government in Victoria tend to just bully things through to suit themselves. The bill that has affected Judy Gard is a case in point, everyone in the ANKC was told if you it won't affect you it's to control puppy farmers. It hasn't affected puppy farmers one jot, they don't show after all. The latest Dangerous dog bill is another case in point, how many of us wrote letters and made phone calls to point out the flaws? I know I did, and I didn't even get a response. The document I think everyone is referring to is the one Steve went to talks about. Good registered breeders are worried about it as there are many things in it that will not only negatively impact them but will probably impact on people who just want to show or leave a performance dog entire until it reaches maturity. It is already getting harder and harder to buy a nice pedigreed puppy. I've had Collies since 1980 and over the last decade the difficulty in getting a good pup has increased beyond belief. I have a prefix and I would one day like to have the option to use it, but I don't think that should come at the cost of having random snap inspections from the RSPCA, particularly in Victoria where there is a well known anti Kennel club sentiment in the upper ranks. My dogs are house dogs, and their kennels are my home. Puppy farmers don't tend to keep their dogs in their bedrooms so it's not really fair to say ANKC breeders are supporting puppy farmer just because they don't want random inspections of their bedrooms. My personal view is that until a body is put in place to over see the RSPCA they should not be given any more powers. The power they have now only encourages corruption and bullying tactics as they are completely insulated from any responsibility. Of course puppy farms are horrible things and you won't hear most ANKC breeders disputing that, but I really think that one has to be very, very careful about what any law we put in place says and how it is worded lest we cut off our noses to spite our faces. There are plenty of laws in Australia that have been made as a cure for various things that haven't changed anything, we really don't need more of those.

I just wanted to say thank you for the help and suggestions. The tape does seem to be helping so far...the spoon idea is another matter. Mind you I think she's too busy gazing at me in disbelief. The OH has a habit of leaving dishes everywhere so Miss Pants was taught early on not to touch. I'm sure she thinks I've lost my mind, not that it's the first time mind you.

Tried that too sas, I even went so far as to smear them in liver pate which Miss Pants thinks is mana from heaven. She just did what she usually does then took a few crafty licks after I'd taken it from her. I persisted until the jar ran out but we didn't get any improvement and I'm all out of ideas now.

So being tea total is out then? That might explain my problem then. Any ideas on how to get a dog to confidently retrieve metals? I've been trying for months and Miss pants will only hold them with her front teeth, the ones in front of the canines. I've tried playing with the articles with her, playing with balls of rolled up foil, food, knurled and plain... but no she just doesn't like them. I can't see us doing UD but I'd still like to find a way to have her retrieving the metals with the same pleasure and bounce as the woods and leathers. I think it's the hardness and sensation against her teeth she doesn't like.

For me the issue is that the RSPCA and the government want to decide what is adequate care and their current idea of what is adequate and what they want legislated are in some respects in complete opposition with what is considered good animal husbandry. As I said earlier part of these laws and the code of practise (which is what would be considered a baseline of adequate care) would see breeders who whelp and raise litters inside their homes as criminals under the animal cruelty act. The kennel clubs and the MDBA went to talks about this proposed legislation but the message coming back is that they will not listen, and this isn't the first time. I detest the idea of people breeding and raising animals in poor conditions but the heavy weights in these things are clearly not interested in best practise other wise they'd be more willing to take on board the science behind what they are being told. My personal opinion is that we can not just keep banning things left right and centre. It doesn't work and there always seems to be a unexpected fall out. People need to be educated and current laws need to be enforced and there needs to be a lot more commonsense and a lot less politics involved in making and framing any new laws we do add. At the moment that just isn't happening.

In all honesty I can't see the councils giving up the money they make from these sort of places and judging by the results of the talks Steve went to I really can't see the proposed bill affecting anyone other than registered breeders of one sort or another. Just the way that it is proposed that puppy farms should be defined and what powers the RSPCA want are enough to show that. Other wise I too would be all for this. Toy dog the area you're talking about has been there along time and my understanding was it was put in place initially to provide an area for Greyhound trainers and breeders and boarding kennels away from the residential areas. From what I know of the people who live there most of them are either boarding kennels, involved in greyhounds or are kennel club breeders/owners. I've gone up there regularly and I'm always stunned by how quiet it is!

I think the other one that registered breeders are worried about is that it will be illegal to whelp bitches in the breeders house under the Code of practise. Given that whelping indoors is something most registered breeders do and means that the pups are better socialised when raised this way it's a bit concerning that the RSPCA will possibly be able to charge a breeder with cruelty to animals for doing so if this bill gets passed. There's also a lot of other things making breeders a bit anxious. Things like saying anyone with more than 5 dogs is a commercial breeder for instance. If you keep your old bitches you get up to 5 dogs quite quickly and really no one doing the right thing is going to be commercial with 5, even with 10 it's a stretch. No one wants puppy farms but I don't think anyone wants to find that they can't buy a puppy at all when they want one either. There has to be a happy medium somewhere, that is all anyone is saying.

Huski don't worry you can't be any worse than me! My girl once tried to nick off out the ring she was so affected by my nerves. I clearly was petrified of something and she wasn't sticking around to find out what! Eventually you stop getting so wound up, most of it comes from the desire to get a pass and with time you learn to be more pragmatic. Chin up! Thing can only improve. Failing that the hip flask sounds like a good idea!

Flux don't loose heart there is a knack to it. Try running your hand down to her pants and then push the whole lot up towards her back then gently start combing a small amount down towards the ground at a time. It will take awhile but it will be much easier on both of you and perhaps look into getting an undercoat rake. They really are usefully when this happens. Don't be too hard on yourself, it's all a learning curve!

Flux you're more than welcome to pm me if you need some help. Jazz is getting the adult coat in and dropping the baby coat, that's why it all seems so so much! If you start at the tail and groom in layers it will all come out, I promise. If worse comes to worse you can use a rake to slit up any really bad areas but it's it's only a small area you can us a comb. Everything will be fine don't worry, collie coats aren't difficult it's just knowing how. And you've learnt your first lesson never ever bath without grooming first! Remember what I said about the spray bottle? That will help detangle too. I can take a video with my camera to show you how to groom out the undercoat if you like. The Collie club of NSW sell a dvd on grooming collies if you want something a bit more through.

Steve Calm performer is made by Barastoc if you contact them I think they'd sling a few bags your way. Certainly wouldn't hurt to try. http://www.agriproducts.com.au/agri/horse-landing_page.html How much feed they'll need depends on age, weight, body score, work load and how much grazing there is. Native type ponies don't generally need much aside from hay but the more TB types need a lot more.