Natsu chan

Blackdogs back in the 1980's the obedience rings were full of collies. Smooth Collies are still very uncommon but there are a number of them starting to enter the rings and gain titles. They can be very good working dogs and are kind and easy to train but like their rough brothers they don't like too much repetion or they will start to be creative. Given the chance though most love to work and have a good attitude. They tend to be less bouncy and than borders and Aussies, and more business like. Of course some things do depend on bloodlines and individual temperament but for the most part they seem to enjoy their work. We currently have Collies in tracking, agility, obedience, dancing and herding though there aren't many of us as so few are being bred. If you're on Facebook have a look here and feel free to ask what ever you like most of our Collie owners who trial are on the group. http://www.facebook.com/groups/dogsport/ Blackdogs if you're up near KCC on Saturday I will be trialling my rough and there is a smooth entered too.

Emily Warringal does agility. Quite a few of the obedience clubs run agility training. So it may be worth while asking. As Panzer says the waiting lists on pure agility club is huge so going through the grades with an obedience club and getting into their agility classes maybe easier. http://www.warringaldogclub.com.au/index.php The northern suburbs is a big area so not sure if Warringal will be close enough. Knox is another one that does agility training too. http://www.knoxodc.org.au/

Emily I wonder if one of your parents would drive you up to KCC at some point( it is on Western Port HWY in Skye.) KCC is the kennel club ground and aside from there being shows and dog sports trials (including agility) being held there, it is also home to our dog library. You need to be a member of Dogs Vic to borrow books or DVDs but there are a lot of books and things on agility. The library is open on the weekend when there is an all breeds champ show on or on Tuesdays from 10 until 2. A dog club would help you a lot but there are all sorts of things you can learn going and watching trials or helping out if you can get your parents to agree. :) I agree with the comment about having to live with the dog you have first and fore most. I have rough Collies( same breed as Lassie :) ) because I love them and can live with them (I know a border is too much dog for me lovely as they are) I do obedience and rally with them and have a good time. It is about learning and working at things. Your mum's little cocker will teach you so much, and what ever dog you end up with in the end will profit so much from everything you learn.

Esky why not just ring her breeders and say I'd like to do an ET with her but the back of her papers aren't signed what do I do. They may just send you down a signed entry form. It doesn't matter who pays the entry fees just that the owner signs the form.

I agree lots of worried breeders here in Victoria and there is a sense that when this is passed...can't imagine that it won't get through lots of breeders will stop breeding as it will be all too hard. Mandatory desexing of all dogs at the ages suggested is crazy, many breeds use older stud dogs as there is no test for one disorder or another but waiting until the dog is 7 or older and still clear is a way to avoid the problem. In my breed most of our stud dogs get used well past 7! Vets having to sign off on everything from diet to a retirement plan...seems completely over the top as well. Never mind the amount of paper work required and the insistance that anyone with 5 dogs is running a business.

You're still allowed to do merle to merle matings in Collies, I know of one breeder who still routinely does so. I have seen over the years plenty of normal double merles, many of which actually had clear eye checks (for CEA) which in Collies is an issue. Very few do merle to merle matings these days but at one time it was fairly common. The main problem in Collies is the same as Cowanbree has with Shelties. Numbers of Collies being bred and breeders has dropped dramatically in the last 20 years and as a result it is difficult to find a dog who is a good match for the bitch, in type, temperament, health and conformation and the right colour. So at times there is little choice something has to be compromised somewhere.

It is usually obvious when the pups are born if they are sable merles.I have seen a few and I think most people would realise they aren't normal sables fairly easily, even in adults the shading in the sables often doesn't look quite right which is usually a give away. Having said that one dog I knew very well who was a sable merle looked to be a normal sable to the eye. His owner and breeder were well aware of what he was and people who used him were told too. He was a really lovely dog and threw beautiful puppies. Unfortunantly there seem to be a lot of blues and sables around now but not so many tris. I suspect the restrictions in numbers and the increasing average age of breeders of both breeds is contributing to this. A lot of the older Collie breeders still think it is a mortal sin though. :)

gsdog2 if you have no luck finding anything online give me a pm after easter and I'll see if I can't send you a photo copy of the article or a spare gazette. Sure I can come up with something. :) The article is by Lea Cogley who is just lovely.

Honestly Rubystar? They like their fees don't they? Thanks for correcting me, I didn't know that.

Can't help with the first question or the last one, but all the state bodies require the dogs papers with title applications. You will then be issued with a new pedigree with the dog's new title on the papers. You don't need the breeders address because the Kennel Club will have that on file. Return postage is usually included in the cost of the title application so you shouldn't need to enclose a SSE. Hope that helps, congrats on the title by the way.

Paddles don't loose heart. You deserve a huge pat on the back. What you are trying to do is very difficult, beyond difficult. It is so much easier when you have someone to show you what to do or even just to catch you when you do something that you aren't aware of. I have trained on my own for years and it is hard even with some sporadic help and some history of club trialing levels behind me. So you have set yourself a task. Yes the dear boy isn't perfect but he's not bad at all he just needs some get up and go. You should be so proud of yourself. Just you wait you'll get there in the end. Good on you for giving it a crack. The DVD is here: http://www.agilityclick.com/prod157.htm If that helps?

Don't worry Paddles it happens! I remember one year at KCC the CCD rings had to be set up right where the ducks had been camping. It was a fiasco! One particularly clever dog (can you guess the breed!:) ) managed to do some of his heel work sliding along the ground. There wasn't one dog (not even the winner) who didnt either sniff, roll or eat the poo at one point or another. Good on you for having a go.

The pool at Devon Meadows is still there and operates it's on Stanley Rd. I think this (5998 2982) is the phone number but it is from an old flyer so I'm not sure how current it is. Casey council in their infinite wisdom decided to get rid of the pool that Dogs In Motion were using.

I thought Sheltie too, since you seem to like the working dog temperament given you've had a border and a GSD. If you wanted something bigger a Collie might be an option too. They can do dog sports there's a few people in SA doing obedience and agility with them now. They're not as full on as borders but it depends on what sort of dog you want. Generally good with kids too. I can point you in the right direction Collie wise if need be. :)

Thanks Abbiestar, at the moment it's just a small group of us through FB trying to encourage more Collie people to have a go at dog sports, endurance is the obvious one as it doesn't "conflict" with showing. :D Thanks Murve and Abbiestar at the moment I am just going to see how I go, my girl only turns two in may. So will see how we go. If not this year then next year.

Abbiestar may I pinch these to circulate around our Collie group. We're trying to encourage people to have a go. I wouldn't mind doing a Vic ET this year but first I need to learn who to ride a bike.... :laugh:

Does anyone know of somewhere in the ACT that you can do herding? I have someone in our Collie circle asking. :)

Curly tracking is a winter thing, but if you contact the Tracking club you should find someone to help you once the weather cools down. There are quite a few people who do tracking out that way. I'm going to start tracking mine this year and have a friend who will teach me, we did one session last year but for various reasons haven't had a chance since and my handling skills are non existant! Try here. http://www.trackingclubvic.org.au/v2/

A smooth Collie may work, short coat, good family dogs trainable but they don't go mad if they miss a walk. A rough may work too but then there is the grooming to consider and many people find the idea of the grooming okay but when it comes to actually doing it consistantly they find it too much. I think all things said they would need to go and look and spend some time with various dogs of the breeds mentioned. People who like the gun dog type temperament may not like the temperament you get with a hound or a working breed. Lots of fun to go looking though.

Collies can do dogsports but from my extensive research some lines are much more suitable than others. Some of the rough lines in particular have not got a lot of drive, but of course in most litters you will get some that are more suitable for sports than others. :) They can do it you just need to do your research.

A smooth Collie, might work. You'd need to cherry pick bloodlines but that's not a problem. I've had Collies and Dobies together and it is doable, but the roughs do get fed up if they don't get time out smooths are a bit hardier that way. They're excellent for juniors doing dogsports and they can do agility.

I think alot of what Steve and others are saying is coming down to people having unrealistic expectations. Realistically most people simply do not have the time, money or room to rescue, breed and rehome. There is so much pressure on all sides for breeders to "do the right thing" that doing the right thing by themselves comes last. Then there is the question of where is the right thing, what is it? It seems to change constantly to become more and more insurmountable. I hear people say breeders dogs shouldn't be kennelled, but in the same breathe they are told they must maintain a wide gene pool. They must rescue if they breed and they must take back dogs they have bred no matter what, no matter where. Where does this leave people? To be ethical it seems means constantly being squeesed between a rock and a tight place. No wonder the numbers are dropping off. It isn't enough anymore to breed good natured, healthy, well raised dogs. People need to stand up and say you are asking too much, we can't do everything but they are all to scared of being condemed if they do. I don't know what the answer is really.

No worries Michelle. I emailed you. :)

Hi Michelle, we have a FB page which is only in it's infancy. The link is here: http://www.facebook.com/groups/dogsport/ but if you pm me with your email address I will send you a few example pages from the folders we had at the National. I have a list of dogs too for the project but not sure if Helen's email address is working or not. I do however have the lists of titled Vic Brittanys (or is that Brittanies?!) on my desk here. Might be able to help with pedigrees for Vic whelped dogs too.

No worries Helen, pm me your email address and I'll email what I find. The Vic Dog library has the old card index in the storage room and that will have all the early Victorian dogs in it up to 1978. The library staff open it when the library is open. If you look in the new Dogs Vic gazette there is a Brittany in the Raft notes a bitch with her FT Ch title, I believe her owner has had quite a few FT Ch Brittanys and he would probably know of others too.