The Spotted Devil

Ah - but a collar grab game used correctly does not ask her to calm down. It asks her to use self-control in an aroused state to get what she finds rewarding - i.e. the tug. Like my Springers who are WILD about birds and game - they will hold a rock solid sit stay with rabbits and birds right in front of them because they understand that's the surest way to be rewarded with a retrieve. My Em literally shakes from head to toe she's so excited but waits until she is given permission. ...that's why we do the flirt pole 'take it - leave it' game ...here she can bite and nibble and tug...but all on my terms and she follows now the 'LEAVE IT' command 100%; her parents are pure working / herding dogs and she has a very strong mouthing / nibbling instinct, not sure whether this is the same with your springers... Nope, different from my Springers but they do other whacky stuff. And I do train with some VERY high drive BCs, Kelpies and their handlers (some of the best in the country) so I have pretty much seen it all. Plus my PhD is in dog behaviour and welfare so this is pretty much what I live and breathe.

Willem - are you familiar with Crate Games? This is my baby puppy, Ginny, learning self control in an environment that provides one or two distractions...as Susan Garrett puts it...layers of understanding...

Ah - but a collar grab game used correctly does not ask her to calm down. It asks her to use self-control in an aroused state to get what she finds rewarding - i.e. the tug. Like my Springers who are WILD about birds and game - they will hold a rock solid sit stay with rabbits and birds right in front of them because they understand that's the surest way to be rewarded with a retrieve. My Em literally shakes from head to toe she's so excited but waits until she is given permission.

...nothing else worked - this worked, and yes, it doesn't feel nice for her (that's why she led immediately go and now nibbles only very rarely during high arousal), but believe me, it hurts me more than her as she has very sharp teeth :) ETA:...I don't think she is frustrated...she is just overexcited and her instincts come through... You're right. Nothing else that you've tried has worked. But I assure you that there are other ways that will work - they teach your dog to make good choices without nagging or discipline. Your "excited" dog is not learning to control her own behaviour. Channel that excitement into something constructive (like agility) and you will both have more fun.

That's not a game. That's punishing a dog for feeling frustrated. There are plenty of better ways including teaching self-control during high arousal - tugging and collar grab games are very useful.

Dog bless H360 threadle arm....I can call that so early when you combine with a sprinkler (turn) cue.

I don't know any agility people who would remotely suggest giving him a clout! I would be looking at your handling system first and foremost. You shouldn't need to be calling him off obstacles - and it's nothing to do with how fast he is or you are. Independent obstacles, contacts, tunnel sends allows you to get into position without running. Spinning, barking biting and frustration are often about the dog asking questions.

It's absolutely critical for my working ESS. Whilst they aren't bred to be just retrievers I do love the sport of retrieving and get to see buckets of natural talent enhanced by training (marking, nose, movement, style, bird work). Em also gets to work paddocks for partridge and quail and her retrieving skills on pheasant shoots have been sublime. I'm hoping Ginny follows in her footsteps. I love agility but it doesn't reflect what my dogs are bred for. I did an ET with Ziggy as every Dally should be able to trot 20kms in their sleep. Of course some would say his agility champion title suggests that he couldn't possibly be a Dalmatian :laugh: Regarding "against her instincts" - yes - ESS will quarter a paddock as easily as waking up in the morning. Running a straight line 150m to a mark or blind not so much! I put a lot of work in and Em does pretty well but she certainly reverts to her natural quartering behaviour when she's confused.

Yes! We all will be - both days. Would love to see you Megan - all my runs will be in Ring One on Sat and Rings One and Two on Sunday so I will be set up close by hopefully.

Working line English Springers don't have much coat. Size depends on lines. My pup has been very carefully socialised and she adapts her play style incredibly well - from respect for grumpy adults to wild play with her Mama, to gentle play with a litter of 5 week old Tollers or a shy pup to absolute madness with a huge long haired adolescent male Weim. Lots of energy and mental stimulation but with a great off switch and love for cuddles. Classic case of what you put in you get out. If you are in Vic you are welcome to meet my lot. My 7 month old Ginny...I've only trimmed a small amount of feathering from the hock, wrist and tail for neatness. I brush them more because we enjoy it than it's needed. Giving Mum, Em a good ear tugging...

Some very unhappy pug breeders at the moment with the recognition of brindle by the ANKC - despite all the objections from breed clubs.

I have 3 of those...one of the cats will get the lid off if it's not 100% secured but he's a persistent little rascal and otherwise they're great. 2 with Dalmatians and 1 with an Aussie!

Leave the one at home with a nice bone to chew or a stuffed Kong - puppy too! My dogs think being left at home is awesome :D

Just quickly....in terms of leaving dogs alone I have 3 dogs - 9 years, 5 years and 7 months. They ALL learn to be alone sometimes at home, alone out and about with me or grouped in either scenario as necessary. It is MUCH easier to train a baby without 2 adults distracting me as well!!!

Pretty normal :D

Are we using electric collars around the necks of horses and cattle to train them now, the same as ecollars for dogs? I don't think we are? They learn that the fence 'bites'. How strange would it seem to the dog that it gets 'bitten' and can't see any cause, and with an ecollar this bite will last as long as the button is being pressed. ...horse sees fence = pain, dog sees snake = pain ....what's the difference? The horse can run away from the shock but the dog can't because it's attached to them? dog sees snake ...trainer hit the button while dog's focus is on snake - outch...dog moves / runs away from snake...I really can't see a big difference?!? There's no guarantee the dog associates the snake with the shock. Experiencing pain when LOOKING at something is not part of a dog's normal range of experience. I wonder also if it coming from the neck is a an odd association too - if you touch something it hurts where you touch it on the body eg paw, nose.

Are we using electric collars around the necks of horses and cattle to train them now, the same as ecollars for dogs? I don't think we are? They learn that the fence 'bites'. How strange would it seem to the dog that it gets 'bitten' and can't see any cause, and with an ecollar this bite will last as long as the button is being pressed. ...horse sees fence = pain, dog sees snake = pain ....what's the difference? Because touching the fence gives an immediate shock. Associative learning at its finest. It's not quite as clear cut with the snake.

I think Jules is probably right too. I see a lot of these types of dogs through rehab with their new owners and they can be a huge amount of work. They are often fine at home once the toilet training and familiarisation is worked through but cannot leave the house or cope with visitors due to the levels of fear and anxiety. It's a lot with a bub on the way even though it sounds like you've done a great job already with your current dog :)

Just bumping this question as I'd really like to know the answer. I would suggest there are individual differences SG - the research is very sparse.

Firstly you're training a relatively simple behaviour. Secondly the animals have a strong visual cue so they can both predict and control the shock. There is a lot of concern about the use of electric prodders.

I'm a member of the Dalmatian Club of Vic - I don't go on committees but I do donate ribbons etc to Nationals for obedience/agility, write for the newsletter, go on breed stands and do demos. Member of the Vic Gundog Club - help at trials, write for the newsletter, run training days and just joined the committee. I think it's really important.

Dory - check out vent locks from Clean Run. You can lock the rear door half open - they are brilliant and I use mine all the time. Will do! Seems so pointless having dog cages when you don't feel safe leaving the car open for them. Yep - I love it when I'm camping on my own too (tent). I can leave them safely and not worry that they are going to get hassled by people or kids who are super attracted to my Spotty dog.

What tips did you get from this forum that helped? What did your trainer suggest? If your dog's arousal is over threshold it's going to be pretty difficult to employ any behavioural modification. That's what it sounds like to me. You need distance from the distraction for a start.

Dory - check out vent locks from Clean Run. You can lock the rear door half open - they are brilliant and I use mine all the time.

I used to board my cat at Welcome Kennels and they were great - long time ago. My dogs now go to Cottage Kennels. A long way out of my way but worth it - during off peak they are outside in runs (not mixed with other dogs) for at least half the day.