The Spotted Devil

Guide Dogs certainly do have their own program - a lot of the heads are very "un-Lab-like"!!!! Customs partly use American field bred Labs and also have their own program. Last I heard anyway. Field-bred or working lines works fine as a description. A lot of breeds have splits - it would start getting unmanageable as there would be splits within splits.

But a Guide Dog is NOT the original purpose. Good on those breeders for saying their dogs are not suited to pet homes.

The ESS split about 100 years ago - they used to do field trials on one day, shows the next. Some preferred showing and some preferred hunting - what breeders selected as winning qualities changed depending on the sport. I don't think my ESS are capable of trotting to be honest - it's either RUN or SLEEP :laugh: And by "working"...what does that mean really? Obedience? Agility? Retrieving trial? Retrieving Ability Test? Flyball? Duck hunting? Fetching a ball or a dummy or a dokken? It's not necessarily about titles but there are plenty of claims made about working ability that would not be what I look for.

I do understand the confusion and I'm not sure there is an answer. Even in Dalmatians the US and UK types are different - which comes down to interpretation of the standard and what people like, what judges will award. And it's not limited to dogs either - unless I find an old European style breeder of Burnese when the time comes I won't be getting another one. In some ways I think it's a good thing genetically that there is such variation.

But it works both ways - should all show dogs have to earn some sort of working title? Firstly it's impossible with some breeds and secondly not everyone wants to live with highly active dogs. Heaps of Border Collies compete in agility and flyball that wouldn't have a hope in the show ring - yet they are incredibly sound and highly competitive. What you are missing I think is that all these dogs have traceable pedigrees within ANKC or equivalent registries. Just because folk have selected for different characteristics doesn't make them a different breed. In the USA they breed National Field Trial Champions to each other. You end up with dogs that mark very well and run amazing straight lines. Physical characteristics (apart from obvious things like hips and elbows) aren't as much of a consideration.

It's just a way of delineating types really - everyone has different opinions on which is the "best" - I think they all have their advantages and disadvantages. A lot of the American field labs being imported have excellent hip and elbow scores too. Live and let live I say. I saw taller ESS in the US because their cover is much heavier and higher yet I've had a couple of people from Ireland (where ESS are used a lot as working Gundogs) look at my dogs/pups and just rave about them. My friend (who now has one of my pups) has 2 show ESS as well....I love them for the dogs they are but they are certainly different - the coat and ears are the main physical features and they are probably a little more low key.

It's just horses for courses. People have differing requirements. Labs are popular in retrieving trials here and most of them are working or field lines - American lines, UK lines, Australian lines and any combination of those. They are typically very high drive and whilst some have a good "off" switch at home most require a lot of exercise and training. Any dog that is highly driven to retrieve makes a great drug detector dog but not so great Guide Dog! We have the same situation in ESS - my field bred dogs are perfect for a very active or dog sports home but they come with a lot of "hunt" or desire to flush and retrieve birds or rabbits. Until you've seen them on game it's difficult to understand their instinct and persistence - it's not just chasing a few birds at the park. ETA: A good breeder will help find the best fit for you. I could have sold my litter four times over but explained to several people that the pups were likely too much for their specific circumstances.

Maddy I had a similar issue with the Cool Champion coats not breathing but people with long coated dogs swear by them.

I mostly use them at trials, occasionally at home but only when I'm around. Have put them on at night sometimes too when the house just doesn't get a chance to cool down.

I use Chilly Buddy coats - bought from Clean Run but I think you can buy them locally now. Brilliant. I watch my dogs stop panting once they're on. Best used wet but are still effective dry in not so hot temperatures. Reflect the sun too.

OK - so big leaner question here: Would a good kibble eg ziwipeak, wellness core or VIP grain free (ok so VIP isnt premium but he likes it) and chicken be balanced enough? I know that sounds really dumb... I mean he is well - I know that and he looks good but I was worried he wasn't getting a balanced diet. Remember that the decent kibbles are designed to be "complete" and you've got less risk of mucking things up with a dog that is not in a demanding life stage (e.g. growth, in whelp, lactating). My Dally can't have red or organ meat....so I feed mostly Artemis dry food plus 2-3 frozen chicken frames each week. His training treats are boiled egg, tinned salmon, cheese, four legs, raw chicken etc. I hope that helps!

He gets the runs on beef instantly. He loves eggs - boiled or fried. He's not a fan of fish - wont touch canned mackerel or sardines, will just tolerate salmon steaks if they're mixed with other things (yes - really - I got some on sale from Aldi once thinking they'd be huge hit with him and the cats...not so...) Wont eat kibble with fish in it either. In general a low fat, white protein based diet seems to suit him and his tastes. Honestly, if he does well on chicken, boiled eggs and a quality dry food that's perfectly fine. I wouldn't feed ANY beef or lamb at all - my Dally has never had either and he is looking fabulous at 9 years. If you want to introduce a novel protein I would suggest you add one at a time and over a decent period such as a few months so you will know whether it agrees with him or not. So, maybe try the chicken and salmon patties first. Then try the chicken and rabbit patties. If the rabbit is fine then you could try the rabbit and goat. That's 3 out of 4 for you!

My first question is what is it about beef that you are trying to limit? For example, one of my cats reacts poorly to beef, lamb and turkey but is fine with chicken - some sort of allergic reaction and the reaction to turkey but not chicken is unusual. My Dalmatian on the other hand isn't fed beef and lamb due to purine content. Eggs are fine. He gets fed salmon but not tuna or sardines - so they seem similar but are really different.

I wondered the same.

Nothing wrong with a bit of anthropomorphising in my view! But - remembering that DOLers are not the average dog owner - many people use the "guilty look" to justify punishment. Dog becomes anxious, problem doesn't get solved, owner gets angry etc. I see a lot of this with regular pet owners!!! Off to try and pull my head in :D

Certainly the shelters I've worked with in the US have realised that if they don't provide affordable desexed, vaccinated etc pets - well matched of course and for owners that may not have a lot of money - that some of these people will go to the local markets/pet shop and buy an undesexed animal that later becomes the shelter's problem when it breeds indiscriminately. The best shelters also provide thorough follow up and support - behaviour, health etc.

Yup.

Fear - yes. Guilt - no.

Don't forget that some of your favourite DOL dogs will be at Dogs Victoria Big Day Out at KCC Park this Sunday! I'll be on the Dally Club stand for a bit, probably do some obedience tips with Zig and will be running him in a demo Masters Agility class in the morning. Both Em and Zig will run in the demo Masters Jumping class in the afternoon.

Kisses for Mum So many lovely DOL dogs...I do like the rascally ones so Stan is way up there. All the Spotty Dogs have a huge place in my heart - juice, horus, perrin, dotdashdot, spotty.... Gruff is just the coolest scruffer around. Love Neko's glossy beauty. All the oldies - I don't post about them much but I love them toddling into their twilight years...DDD - your little menagerie comes to mind. I will think of more I'm sure!

Awwww....that's so sweet! Em thanks you and says she has a youngster you can have :laugh: Hahaha I love Ziggy photobombing :) I also have a soft spot for Em as she is just like my Bella only has a lot more training lol Love Bella! Do you know I had never noticed Zig's photo bombing effort :laugh:

raineth - this one's for you from last weekend...when the dog who owes you nothing just keeps on giving....1st place Novice Strategic Pairs and Best 600 Dog in Trial (Victorian State Games)...

Awwww....that's so sweet! Em thanks you and says she has a youngster you can have :laugh:

My only stipulation is corn free - makes my Springer itch like crazy! I feed Artemis and it's what I recommend to my puppy buyers. Definitely chat with your breeder.

I'm so so sorry to hear this news beth - was really hoping for a different outcome. Hugs to you and your furry family at this difficult time xxx