The Spotted Devil

We had 5 Shires, lilli, so know where you are coming from in terms of big hooves and strength when they decide to 'play' I don't want to offer any advice as I'm not experienced enough....but can recommend this establishment if you are looking for outside help.

Thanks for the reply BC - yes I know it's difficult. I don't plan to trial him for a while but he has a strong tendency to get bored quickly so I'm working on things like 'finding' hidden toys and I'd like to do bits and pieces of advanced work such as scent discrimination, which I have very little experience in, plus dumbbell, sendaway etc....makes it easier down the track I think if you introduce these things early. Perhaps I may have to consider a private trainer once we get to trialling stage. ETA: Probably also need a club that will take a Dally doing obedience seriously ;)

Hi all I'm looking for an obedience club, preferably in Bayside but happy to travel if it's worth my while. I currently attend the Showgrounds for ring craft lessons every Wednesday night. I am looking at competing with Zig at a later stage (he's only 9 months and has a LOT of maturing to do ) and it's been a while since I have done so......not to mention in a different state! I do a fair bit of work with him at home using very short sessions of clicker work, toys etc so it's all fun and I'm pretty clear in how I want to train him. So...I'm looking for a club that is pretty flexible I suppose - classes that provide distractions for Zig to work through rather than extended heel work sessions and ring craft guidance for me. At the moment he has the concentration span of a gnat so I'm working on building this up I also want to do agility with him but obviously that will wait for another 12 months. I'm just not sure how clubs work these days, having been out of the scene for a while....so any help would be appreciated ;)

In my limited puppy experience, I train from day 1 - all gentle, luring, positive reinforcement etc. Once Zig got the hang of 'sit' he had to do a sit/stay for a few seconds when I opened a door...his reward was being able to dash into the lounge room to say good morning to every living creature That quickly became too easy so we moved to drops and stands.....the tail never stopped waggging....nor has it since

Me too please....I'm not sick but I love a G&T

I found it helped to put Ziggy to bed after his last toilet break with a Puppy Kong full of his biscuits.....it gave him something to do before falling asleep and when he woke up...I left a soft lamp on so he could find his way to the water bowl and to the newspaper (open crate in the laundry too) and a radio on talk-back outside his door...we also did lots of practice during the day by putting him to bed for a few hours whenever he was tired....good luck!

I agree with stormie & goldielover - go for a premium dry food for large breeds. I had some Supercoat puppy food originally and, when I switched to Zig's current diet, I used the Supercoat as training treats - they are really small so very handy for click/treat work. It took us a long time to get through the bag though Just remember to change the puppy's diet over slowly to avoid an upset tummy. I also feed half a raw chicken wing at bedtime (a chicken neck when he was much younger) and I've never had a problem with puppy whining at night - he can't wait to get outside at 10.30pm to toilet before being put to bed with his "treat". Most canned food is of fairly poor quality (although I believe Nature's Gift is ok) so I personally wouldn't bother with it (makes for smelly poos!). As for the puppy milk....perhaps you could donate it to a needy rescue organisation (have a look at the dog rescue pages) - it might be good to tempt puppies that aren't eating much.

Oh how frustrating for you and your dog!!!! I love working with the clicker with my pup as I don't want to overdo his exercise at this young, tender age. I even brought a bucket out last week and clicked/treated when he held his head in it....there are lots of steps to it though (known as "shaping")....he knows about clicking and when he looked at the bucket I clicked (this took quite some time for him to work out that he didn't have to sit or drop or stand for a c/t...then he barked at me in frustration )....it took a good 20 minutes to shape this behaviour and he was exhausted afterwards Zig does bounce around a lot so it probably depends on your dog....that exercise may be too much but it may give you an idea...maybe try this link to give you some more info on clicking exercises. Good luck with the leg!

I'm only new to showing but have trained a fair bit in obedience/agility in the past. It's definitely a "time" factor for me at the moment so I am concentrating on showing but I do a variety of training with Zig. He behaves quite differently - flat collar equals loose lead relaxed walking (well, we're working on it ), show lead equals gaiting, clicker and no collar around the house means heeling (just position - no sits/stands/drops), clicker and me sitting down means some shaping, sit stay and favourite toy means 'hide and seek'. Meanwhile we are working on 'watch' before his dinner and a variety of other things. I only train one 'style' per session - it seems to keep the little bugger guessing and out of mischief...mostly

After a gentle game of tug I will ask Zig to "give", after which he is rewarded by having the toy thrown for him. Smart little bugger stopped playing tug today after a only few seconds in anticipation of me throwing his toy.... :D Too clever for me

Do you know if there HAVE been any scientifically proven conclusions drawn from the studies in this "movement" that would give rise as to WHY "leadership exercises" as we know and understand them would not be of any good effect? No, I'm not sure Erny - but will get in touch with my UK friend and see what I can come up with

Rational discussion and debate is very enjoyable. Thanks Erny

Phew! Thanks :D There seems to be some movement on from the comparison of modern-day dog behaviour with wolf-pack behaviour due to domestication and selection for traits. I know of someone in the UK who works with the Wolf Conservation Trust and he was explaining that they were quite different (even in terms of digestive processes...thus the BARF argument also becomes interesting). But as for "dominance" - I can see what you mean but it is still an interpretation that an animal is "dominant". Certainly you can observe aggression within a pack by a scientist would refer to offensive aggression (defending a resource e.g. food, mate, territory) and defensive aggression (the 'fight' part of the 'fight or flight' response). Splitting hairs I know :D but that's what science is all about! I am rather excited myself - I probably won't have the time to analyse all the data this year but my supervisor has suggested that I continue to collate everything with the hope of drawing some more conclusions out of it at a later date. Will keep you posted if you like. I'm also doing a Lit Review on the effect of early desexing on growth in dogs....will hopefully post in the breeders section when it's finished so that anyone can PM me for a copy. Bloomin' quote thingies :D

Pack theory tends to be regarded as inacurate/outdated by scientists, simply because dominance is implied by observing aggressive behaviour etc. Science is all about proof so scientists prefer not to ascribe emotions - this is not to say that the approach of the behaviourists/trainers is wrong - far from it IMO as many of you appear to get excellent results with your clients. In addition, the way you describe it to your clients (if done correctly) is probably a lot easier to understand because people tend to anthropomorphise and need to relate the dog's behaviour to their own emotions. I think often scientists and trainers will say the same thing but a scientist has to be very careful about definitions so will prefer to refer to situations that can be replicated and are not reliant on interpretation. The scientific evaluation of animal welfare is also very different from the average "animal welfare organisation" approach, and IMO much more reliable....but I'll leave that for another thread :D I interpret what my cats and dog do all the time, and those I work with (and it works well for me)....but I am currently conducting a small study on cat behaviour in a shelter environment and it's just vital to remove all my emotion & preconceptions and simply observe the facts (e.g. body position, pupil dilation, tail movement) without any interpretation - that's what statistics are for. It's quite difficult actually!!!! Unfortunately there's not a lot of funding for companion animal behavioural research - all the money is in commercial animals. So...scientists prefer to refer to learning theory - non-associative learning (habituation, sensitisation, desensitisation) and associative learning (classical and operant conditioning) which can be experimentally replicated. In addition, animals have evolved to give and receive signals from their environment. Transferring this to learning, if the signal always leads to a response, the result is calmness. If the signal never leads to a response, the result is calmness. If the signal sometimes leads to a response, the result is anxiety (which may lead to conflict behaviours). I think that many of the issues owners have with their pets (dogs, cats, horses) is due to a lack of consistency. JMHO. I hope that makes sense :D

She's gorgeous! Do let me know how you go with her....yep! You're definitely a glutton for punishment ;)

Wow, Phillipa! Who's that with? Don't tell me Miss Rosie is going to take the obedience world by storm already!!!! I really must get a wriggle on with my lad!

What food treats are you using? My lad's recall went to pot when he hit the "teenage" stage.....added some roast chicken and cubes of cheese to his normal reward schedule at the beach....boy, did that do the trick! Sometimes you have to really "up" the value of the reward, make sure they're hungry when you're practicing and, when you are training, only call "come" when you are sure he'll come back....otherwise the little rascals learn that it's their choice. Also, make sure you call him back, reward and then let him go again so it's a win-win for him. Perhaps you could use a very, very light long line while you are still reinforcing the recall. Hope that helps!

The treatment is very serious, too, so I would rather be safe than sorry.

I go to the Showgrounds every Wednesday night for show training and LOVE IT Feel free to PM me for details.

Just a little suggestion to help you through the next few weeks.....perhaps you could try some clicker work and shaping behaviour around the house...it's a lovely way to stimulate a busy dog's brain with no physical effort on your part. I've had a rotten cold this week so curled up on a chair with the clicker and a handful of treats, put a plastic bucket in the lounge room and then rewarded Ziggy for any interaction he had with it. It produced lots of laughs as he tried to work it out and he was happy to snooze for the rest of the afternoon - very handy for a Dal who's just hit the teen years Good luck and congrats on your baby :rolleyes:

Ziggy didn't put forth his first bark until he was about 6 months old....nearly scared the daylights out of himself Never seen anything so funny in all my life! Now he only barks if someone comes to the front door or if he has been fast asleep and is disturbed by a loud noise....such as the cats knocking all the ornaments off the shelves as they chase each other Oh, and I was doing some shaping training with the clicker the other day and he was getting frustrated at first because he tried all his known commands and I still wouldn't reward him....so he barked at me as if to say "You idiot!" It was very hard not to fall about laughing

On the show entry form it says to make them payable to "The Royal Agricultural Society of Victoria Limited" Hope that helps

Hi deltron - I just picked this up.....I don't want to be pedantic BUT....dogs have an association time frame of a half to three seconds so if you are walking around the yard saying 'go wees' then puppy has not learned what 'go wees' actually means! I would suggest that your puppy thinks that 'go wees' means 'walk around the yard for a bit'....I think you should only use your command when your puppy starts to squat, then follow with lots of praise/treat/both. It does take them a while to specifically relate the command to the action but if you are consistent, puppy will get there. I still give a 'quick, quick' command when Zig actually toilets, just to reinforce and practice the command. Then when we are out and I specifically want him to toilet then all the practice pays off. Summer pups are soooooo much easier!!! Keep persisting!!!

I like PF's idea of walking pup around on a lead - I always gave Zig loads of praise for just sniffing the ground when I first got him home. Maybe you could try a little basic training outside too....a bit of activity and positive reinforcement may get him to relax and toilet. Stick with it!!!!