The Spotted Devil

LP - have you tried the natural Eagle Pack treats? They are a bit big - but I break them up and find them really handy to just have in my pocket at the beach.... ETA: Maybe too high in calories for what you are after though.

Definitely But just ask for a few steps then release and go mad :rolleyes: Also, if you get nervous practice redirecting that nervous energy into excited body language....like if you've got a full-on dog and you channel that energy into something constructive

Yes, but you can't spit food in the ring By that I mean, if dancing around works, then I would use it and then very, very slowly fade it out. I never thought I'd be able to get Zig working without food but he has really surprised me :D

I have a dog that quickly gets discouraged if he doesn't get rewarded when shaping - so if I have reached a certain stage in the behaviour and want to take it a step further, I click and treat with one piece of kibble for what he is doing correctly and click and jackpot with a handful of kibble when he takes it to the next level. He knows the pattern now and will start looking for how to move forward - if he tries, no matter the result, he gets one piece of kibble which just makes him try harder :D Not sure if that helps.

I have a tiny house and a tiny yard and a dog that needs to run. I don't attend obedience training but I do go to agility once a week. Ziggy gets a free run probably 5-6 times a week. If I want to do formal training I take him to the very large dog park (maybe 2-3 times a week if it is cool enough) - I know "good" times to go, avoid walking near packs of dogs, do constant training when he is free running and am very aware of the body language of other dogs as Zig is a giant sook. I go to the local dog beach nearly every day if it's hot or don't want to train - I go at 6am/6.30am and I know all the early morning regular dog walkers - I have met some wonderful people and their beautiful dogs :D Ziggy still has to 'work' on the beach (we practice stays, focus, recalls, working on both sides for agility) and many novice dog owners will approach me and ask for training advice which is lovely.

Hadn't really thought about it but I do most of Zig's training either first thing in the morning when he is bouncing out of his skin with delight OR in the evening when he is turning himself inside out in anticipation of dinner

Glad to hear you are ok kelpiechick I will be travelling to Whittlesea tomorrow with a car load of pet food, bedding and accessories donated to 4 Paws & More.

You've just described my Dally lad to a tee I've had experienced Dal people try and take him around the show ring and they come back out of breath and exhausted with a dog who misbehaves like I've never seen I certainly didn't plan it that way - but it has probably come about because he is SO independent and was a rather challenging youngster that I've had to work very hard with him. He's funny at the beach - will respond beautifully when asked but as soon as he is released he bolts off to sniff and pee or meet other dogs with the occasional glance over his shoulder. Its annoying isn't it? And my OH is always getting the shits that my dog plays up with him and will never let him catch her and just always has the comeback of 'I thought you were training her'. Ha, i tell hom what he can do but he doesn't listen. Sometimes i think the dog listens better... What do you mean "sometimes"

Are you using a variety of foods in one go Kavik? My Dally gets bored with his rewards REALLY quickly - on Sunday I took a giant bag of toys to agility plus several different food rewards and switched them every few minutes. He was nearly doing back flips for me

You've just described my Dally lad to a tee I've had experienced Dal people try and take him around the show ring and they come back out of breath and exhausted with a dog who misbehaves like I've never seen I certainly didn't plan it that way - but it has probably come about because he is SO independent and was a rather challenging youngster that I've had to work very hard with him. He's funny at the beach - will respond beautifully when asked but as soon as he is released he bolts off to sniff and pee or meet other dogs with the occasional glance over his shoulder.

Darn. I knew the gremlins were working!

JulesP - that aspect of the 2-food game came to the fore today at agility training - worked a treat!!! I also use it as preparation for directed retrieving down the track - I find that the 2-food game gets the dog working faster......both out to the send away point and then racing back (without any command) to a nice straight front

Absolutely heartbreaking stuff I'm so very sorry - the breeders must be absolutely gutted. Run free beautiful angels

Yes, I do the same - and now Zig bolts to the food reward, throws it down and is back sitting in front of me with no instruction It's a really fun exercise for building enthusiasm!

Agree with laffi - maybe look at your rate of reinforcement and make it much easier for him to succeed. Zig is extremely independent and gets bored very easily so I have been working with him in tiny, tiny increments. We also do short training sessions - for his dinner I break it into 3-4 sessions with a cup for each and plenty of opportunities for jackpots. Like you, Kavik, I saw a few glimmers of what he was really capable of which made me go and thus I have held back from trialling until that work is consistent. Another suggestion that works well with smart, easily bored dog is shaping - when you stop asking the dog to do something and get him to work it out for himself (especially when they're hungry!) it seems to 'stick' a lot better. In the shopping strip under distraction (dogs, people, cars, noise, smells, food) I will often just stand still and ignore Zig (on a shortish leash) until he makes eye contact....then c/t. When we walk home Zig is usually very busy working the length of the lead to mark as often as possible - so it was such a surprise when he started offering me focus and heel work and I always make sure I'm carrying a few biscuits to reinforce the behaviour. He used to offer it only in a half block before home - now it's becoming more frequent and at different points in the walk. ETA: Zig also gets distracted after 'treating' so my trick is to ask immediately for another exercise. I used a suggestion of Ptolomy's - leave the dog in a sit/wait and place some food in a bowl or on the ground a few metres away. Return to your dog. Get the dog to focus on the food (as part of future directed retrieving training) and send the dog to 'get it'. As soon as the dog has eaten the food call him straight back for a nice 'front'. Serious jackpot time!!! Works a treat and keeps the dog focussed even after they have been rewarded.

One thing that flipped the focus switch with Zig was making him work for every scrap of food that he gets - means a lot of training when he gets around 4 + cups of dry food a day However, it's really worked and he'll often offer me focus and lovely heeling when we are on the way home from a run at the beach in the hope of getting something more than a "good boy"

Heh heh I trained mine to sit on the ledge next to the door when we enter or leave the house - works a treat

That is good news Wow - a kilo already is fantastic....may also indicate adequate hydration too which is wonderful! Sorry about your vegie patch Kelpie-i....oops!!! Little rascal - at least he knows how to get Mum's attention now

I'm working on duration heeling with Zig at the moment....really enjoying the process too. We do some circles to the left and right to warm up and then introduce straight lines and turns. I'm still using verbal praise on the turns but he's got a spring in his step, an upturned head and a madly wagging tail when he pulls it all together. Gives me warm fuzzies just thinking about it

If I had a dollar for every time I looked at a training thread and noticed a complete misunderstanding and misuse of the terms used in the 'quadrant', then I sure as heck wouldn't be renting

Spotted Devil, the reply I got from Bud re Ziggy's request was ..."no, go away!" How rude!! That's the response I was looking for from Bud! Put the little whippersnapper in his place Re meds, Kelpie-i, I have taken tramadal for severe pain and it affected me really badly. It didn't touch the pain but made me not care about it. I was as high as a kite and should not have driven home (OH said I was very funny and ranting about all sorts of things!) but came crashing down the next day and felt horribly depressed. The prescribing doctor (an idiot) said he'd never heard of such a thing but another doctor said she'd heard of that happening to others. I always wonder what effect it has on animals as I've often seen it prescribed for dogs. Just thought it might help with the hyperactivity and the daze-like state you described. Please keep us updated. I've got a bit of a soft spot for the old lad now

Leg lifting when training???? No At the completion of his training session I make sure he is working really, really well and then release him to do 'bucking broncos' and sniff and pee. It's the same when I practice informal recalls....come, praise or treat, then release. Repeat 6-8 times per free run. Does that make sense? Interesting your comment, reminded me......in retrieving training, this may be seen as as form LACK OF EFFORT/obedience trainers call it shut down/delay tactics, versus the teaching phase when more positive is required. Would you mind expanding on this please LL? I've focused heavily on food training as that is what comes naturally to Zig but I'd like to expand his motivational repertoire....I think! For his formal obedience retrieve I teach it using food as well. Lots to ponder.

Crazy to train, easily focused and not distracted - naturally an even "0" but I think I've worked it up to a "10" in some situations and perhaps only a "7" in others. Although agility on Sunday wasn't too crash hot for focus - but it's very new for him, high distraction environment and it was muggy - not a good combination. Food drive - with good variety and judicious use it can be a "10" but as in agility training this week, he was a bit over everything. Retrieving drive - hmmm.....if I use your dogs as a marker of 10/10, LL, I'd say about a "6" or even "7" on a good day but it wears thin on him very quickly. Variety is the key - I'm going to try a bag of different toys this week at agility and keep swapping them. Will be an interesting experiment Leg lifting drive - 10/10 under any circumstances I actually use this as a reward after some good training efforts at the park

Fantastic news Kelpie-i Bark up a storm young Bud! Ziggy wants to know if he can have another chicken frame for all his get well wishes :D LL - I can't believe your dear old lass is still going! I remember the day you were getting ready to let her go - Cracker by name, Cracker by nature!!

whitka, laffi has pretty much covered it. In terms of preservatives and rubbish, the Nature's Gift treats are great and I happily feed them....also Eagle Pack Holistix are fine. However, as mentioned you need to do an exclusion diet to really determine what is going on. If you do find chicken is not part of the allergic response I would much rather feed some sort of meaty bones such as frames (I get really good ones from my butcher) or wings. I freeze them and Zig chews them very carefully - make sure you supervise so puppy doesn't bolt them. Save the mince for a special training treat