The Spotted Devil

Yes - the department's slides from the hearing. Same problems, different name. Based on what I heard, I am very much looking forward to the transcripts. Also worth checking out the other presentations. Funny how the legislation sweeps up birds, cats, dogs, rescue, foster carers, obedience clubs, pet shops and puppy farms and yet the focus of the presentation is on Dogs Victoria breeders who account for 17% of puppies.

“Decisions shouldn’t be made in the shadows, communities should always be consulted and the powers of the Parliament and the Government should never be abused.” (Victorian Labor Platform 2014) http://purebreddogs.org.au #amendthebill #danielandrews #jaalapulford #makeitaboutwelfare #workingdogs

Very disingenuous comments from the Minister. Under the current legislation DV members can have up to 9 fertile bitches and need to adhere to the CoP for the Keeping of Dogs and Cats. This is the VAST majority of DV breeders. So we DON'T come under the CoP for Rearing and Breeding. If you're not a member of an AO then this CoP kicks in when you have 4 fertile females. But this is what they are expecting us to adhere to if this goes through unamended and we have one fertile bitch. Read the CoP. It is one of the most absurd things I've ever read for a hobby breeder. You need Standard Operating Procedures for every activity, you need someone at the premises 24/7, you need to disinfect dog beds weekly (well that's my bed then), stud dogs over 6 have to get clearance from a vet...I mean WTAF. Cats, dogs, birds, rescue, obedience clubs all with more red tape that will do nothing for animal welfare. The MAV rep nailed it - a dog's breakfast.

Oh absolutely. Which is why we are recommending that anyone who is affected to keep making a noise. It has been left to a relatively small number because people don't understand the outcomes.

The evidence of the MAV shows just how little stakeholders were consulted.

Transcripts available from Day 1 of the hearing (scroll to the bottom of the page for pdf): http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/eic/inquiries/article/3173

RSPCA, councils and police are the only ones who can act on/enforce CoP anyway. The only way is to have an independent body but that ain't going to happen anytime soon. And every industry has a CoP, enforceable under the law. Even pet owners.

I'm really sorry but I agree with what has been said. Baby puppies need to be with their Mum and their litter mates. Taking the pup will only encourage them to do the same thing again. And please please report them. This is NOT what good breeders do. And if you let us know what breeds you are interested in then perhaps we can also help to point you in the right direction. .

Yes, that has been AVAs position from the start. What is making a difference is the action of members.

She wasn't president of the breed club at all. This is part of the problem. Media. Yep it IS hard. But a lot of people don't want to be educated. And if ANKC breeders only provide 17% of the puppies what the hell are we supposed to do?

There are cracks in the DV system no doubt - and they are being remedied from what I hear. However DV have no power to enter a property and it's difficult to ban someone for life until they've been prosecuted. This person had more than 10 fertile bitches and therefore would have had to have a DAB from council already. Therefore she would fall under the commercial CoP - the council and RSPCA have the power here. And no way on earth am I defending these circumstances, conditions or outcomes just to be clear. My point is that there is a legal process.

Yes exactly dragonwoman.

Dogs Vic response has been atrocious. The only reason the members have got as far as they have is because of themselves. As soon as the topic came up months ago Dogs Vic should have been campaigning. Even now they're not keeping all members informed. I won't argue that it's been poorly handled but remember that Dogs Victoria is only as good as its members. How many apathetic people have their heads in the sand? How many people vote in the elections? How many turn up to the AGM? And don't forget that the VAST majority of management committee (you know, the ones that do all the work) are UNPAID VOLUNTEERS. As one of them recently said he has volunteered for the role knowing what it would cost him in time, travel, fuel and etag because he said you can't complain if you won't put in. DV were purposely blindsided by this legislation by experienced people in paid positions. It was no accident.

Alpha Bet - I will correct you on one thing. Dogs Vic did argue a number of points but were ignored by the department. Up to the point of the release of this Bill they were in consultation about the AO. They were clearly told this Bill did not concern them. As to the rest well there's not much argument there. However an organisation such as DV are only as strong as their members. Where was everyone at the AGMs for example. Personally though I am focussing on the fight we have now and looking to the future - thinking about how I can volunteer my services.

Thanks Airedaler. Really appreciate it.

Oh I love it! You must be in "the FB group" I admin ????

They just want to change the name of the DAB to a permit administerd by the local councils. The MAV (representing all 79 councils) spoke at the hearing and said it was pretty much unworkable, they weren't consulted and the whole bill should be scrapped and they need to start again. With proper consultation, The only thing that has got us this far is the incredible response from Dogs Vic members and other concerned individuals - signing the petition, sharing on social media, writing to and meeting with MPs, calling local councils and educating the general public. So keep it up everyone.. The government could have saved themselves a lot of trouble if they had consulted with ALL the key stakeholders. I have had two legal opinions that this is some of the most poorly written legislation they have ever seen. Doesn't mean it won't get passed though.

Geez way to generalise.

sarcasm alert perhaps, interesting, so they wont have to register as a business, get council permit, get an abn or the 10 million insurance? and allowed to keep their retired dogs? perhaps everyone should call their dogs greyhounds and race them, even if its only once in their lifetime? Well there are still council approvals required - an article on the paper about a council kicking a Greyhound breeder out. A Local Laws issue rather than a welfare issue by the sounds of it. If this is the one in the Cranbourne area they were not "kicked out" by council at all. The council rejected the application after a huge push from the Animal Justice Party and anti racing groups (most who wouldn't even know where Cranbourne was) and a neighbour who was concerned about the noise and that the greys could escape and chase her chooks. Yep. They sold the property without appeal to Frankston Council and relocated to South Gippsland. Thanks HW - appreciate the clarification. There's a lot to keep on top of at the moment.

I think time is the easiest one. Using a stop watch really helps. Pair people up if it's one jump work. Give them one thing to work on. 2 minutes work time each. Dog in crate whilst the other dog works. When you add in instructions then it's very easy to fill an hour and come away with 4-5 pieces of homework. The other thing is partner people up and they have to either write training notes for each other or help throw toys etc. But I'm a hard @r$e lol

Actually that is incorrect. It is recommended that dogs that are no longer in a breeding program are rehomed or euthanized. Not that they must do so. Yes you are right. But makes it hard for those who have oldies on the couch if they have over 5 dogs and want to breed. $20,000 + for kennels...

sarcasm alert perhaps, interesting, so they wont have to register as a business, get council permit, get an abn or the 10 million insurance? and allowed to keep their retired dogs? perhaps everyone should call their dogs greyhounds and race them, even if its only once in their lifetime? Well there are still council approvals required - an article on the paper about a council kicking a Greyhound breeder out. A Local Laws issue rather than a welfare issue by the sounds of it. does anyone here honestly think many councils will permit the owner of even one female to register their suburban home as an animal rearing BUSINESS? At a guess this will eliminate 90% if not more of people who live in the suburbs and as Telstra so loves to remind us, their coverage is of 98% of australians. What they dont mention is 90% live in the burbs and the city. Only 8% of those in the country can get reception. many only if they stand on one foot, with their tongue hanging out to the left AND on the highest corner of the property nearest to a tower. We have a property in Gilgandra and there is only one spot where there is reception and its not in the house so tough luck if its raining and u want to make a mobile call. where is the 90% who own pets and are breeders? It isnt the country is it? I recall when the then NSWCC did a survey and discovered something like 80% of long time members and the backbone of the registry were the over 60's and prodominatly pensioners. eliminate that demographic and its endangered species listing if it isnt nearing that already for some The government have suggested in emails to Dogs Vic members that the problem is in calling it a "business" so now they are offering to change the name to a breeder permit. Ah yes, that will flush out all the people that never advertise or sell on social media. I doubt it will "flush" even one, but eliminating a high percentage of the members of Dogs Vic is certainly on the cards Yup. We are not giving up I can tell you.

sarcasm alert perhaps, interesting, so they wont have to register as a business, get council permit, get an abn or the 10 million insurance? and allowed to keep their retired dogs? perhaps everyone should call their dogs greyhounds and race them, even if its only once in their lifetime? Well there are still council approvals required - an article on the paper about a council kicking a Greyhound breeder out. A Local Laws issue rather than a welfare issue by the sounds of it. does anyone here honestly think many councils will permit the owner of even one female to register their suburban home as an animal rearing BUSINESS? At a guess this will eliminate 90% if not more of people who live in the suburbs and as Telstra so loves to remind us, their coverage is of 98% of australians. What they dont mention is 90% live in the burbs and the city. Only 8% of those in the country can get reception. many only if they stand on one foot, with their tongue hanging out to the left AND on the highest corner of the property nearest to a tower. We have a property in Gilgandra and there is only one spot where there is reception and its not in the house so tough luck if its raining and u want to make a mobile call. where is the 90% who own pets and are breeders? It isnt the country is it? I recall when the then NSWCC did a survey and discovered something like 80% of long time members and the backbone of the registry were the over 60's and prodominatly pensioners. eliminate that demographic and its endangered species listing if it isnt nearing that already for some The government have suggested in emails to Dogs Vic members that the problem is in calling it a "business" so now they are offering to change the name to a breeder permit. Ah yes, that will flush out all the people that never advertise or sell on social media.

sarcasm alert perhaps, interesting, so they wont have to register as a business, get council permit, get an abn or the 10 million insurance? and allowed to keep their retired dogs? perhaps everyone should call their dogs greyhounds and race them, even if its only once in their lifetime? Well there are still council approvals required - an article on the paper about a council kicking a Greyhound breeder out. A Local Laws issue rather than a welfare issue by the sounds of it.

asal Greyhounds will be exempt in Vic. They come unde the racing code.