The Spotted Devil

Some people, not all people. I think back to dogs we had as a kid, none went to obedience training I don't think they even knew how to sit! But they were good dogs, mostly outside dogs though so of course undesirable behaviours were less noticeable. What has changed? Well since I got a husky I've found that everyone notices dog hair (actually they usually think I have a cat lol!), I think that the hair thing has become one of the main things because of smaller yards so dogs are closer if not inside so hair is more noticeable. That's the main thing I've noticed that's significantly changed about dog ownership, yes there is less tolerance for normal behaviours but I guess that is also a byproduct of having dogs living closer with us too? I do understand that times have changed but we are not talking about a lap dog here - these dogs are gundogs - working dogs. Guide Dog Labs, show-line Labs and working-line Labs are worlds apart from each other in terms of energy and temperament but most of them go through a pretty active/destructive teen phase and some never grow out of it. That's why they make such great working dogs because they don't know the meaning of the word "tired". Not to mention that the failure rate for Guide Dogs is around 50%. The standard poodle was originally a gundog too. When I talked to the breeder of my field bred ESS she was honest about her energy levels - yes, she is a bit smaller, her coat is much shorter and more manageable, her temperament is sweet and biddable but her mental stimulation and exercise requirements are huge because she is bred to work. There is sweeping/vacuuming daily OR you need to get off your butt and give these dogs something more than a walk around the block. I have to do both, sometimes several times a day Seriously, though, I think the expectations of people are completely unrealistic. All the people who ooh and aah over how well behaved my Dalmatian is (most of the time ) - I am so honest about the breed but it's really hard to make them understand that I have worked so damn hard with him, especially in the first few years. 5am starts (working 7 days a week for one 7 week period) just so he could have a gallop at the beach before I left the house is not for the faint hearted but I'm now reaping the rewards. A family member would love a pup sired by my Dally. He had a lovely Weim - would run it off lead inappropriately, didn't put the training in and it was hit by a car at a young age. He loved the dog but was very much "c'est la vie." Human nature means they want the easy way out - and a great breeder of great dogs (whether curly coat retriever, poodles or labs) is not going to give them one.

If you want to go with something to step over, what about bump jumps??? Or those round foam thing-ies that G suggested I use as bump jumps for Em? While you're there, can you please work out how to shape my two terrors NOT to wrestle inside please? "OI!" is not working and I can't kick them out as Lilly is on my lap

If they are good with objects (let's work to their strengths) could you give them something that they have to step backwards over???? ETA: Sorry, didn't read the bit properly where you said you didn't want to read objects! I like shortcuts

Actually, I think what has got lost in all this is that some people appear to want a non-shedding breed that doesn't require brushing, has all the cute qualities that a puppy comes with but knows everything a well-trained and exercised adult representative of the breed does without any effort on the part of the owner. Oh, and wants one next week with a perfect temperament and no health problems (ever) from a breeder who will bend over backwards to sell them one. Easy!

More info please? I would suggest that LP means you have 4 jumps set up in a box shape and you work on various exercises e.g. serps, threadle arm, 180 etc - I'm assuming there is a DVD/book but I just work on the exercises my instructors give me.

More than happy to RS - have been meaning to drag Mr TSD down to the park with the video camera anyway! Most importantly we are both having lots of FUN!

Just want to plug "The Focussed Puppy" - great little book and gave me plenty to work through. So much of the foundation work is applicable to lots of dog sports. Em is around 7 months old and we work on retrieving, obedience and agility. LP04 is right - don't try to do too much too soon. Emmy does quite a lot of training but she is a working line pup - just desperate to train and really needs to so she can settle. That said, the slightest indication that she is tired or overwhelmed and I stop and, mostly, I am learning to read her and stop before she knows she's tired.

Just thought I'd update with some puppy progress We train nearly every day even for a few minutes and, if not retrieving, we do some obedience or agility foundations (had our first lesson the other day and Em now loves the tunnel). At our private agility lesson, Em did really well for such a youngster but I got in SO much trouble for only teaching her to heel on one side A quick chat with LL confirmed my understanding that you can not only send to a retrieve from the right hand side but it is advantageous to be able to do so. Thus, Em now is pretty comfortable with "close" and is happily doing sighted blinds from the right hand side, although we are sticking to small piles at relatively short distances until we both gain in confidence. Still working on right backs and left backs - the penny has certainly dropped and it's incredible how she takes hints from my body language prior to giving the signal so will have to watch that. I tried "over" today (just to the right) for the first time - slightly hesitant to begin with but I have no doubt she'll pick up the pattern pretty quickly - didn't do too much with that, more of an intro than anything as I asked a lot of her today. I decided that the sooner she realises that there might be two dummies to pick up and I select which one first, the better. Today I placed two dummies at about 10 and 2 o'clock when she was in the car and then set her up between them at about half her normal distance. I had already decided to pick up the 2 o'clock dummy first but she had clearly got a visual on the 10 o'clock dummy and her little head kept swinging around to have a look. I had to gently say "no" and line her up correctly for the 2 o'clock dummy, which I'm pretty sure she hadn't seen at all. It took a few attempts to get her nice and straight but it was well worth it as she rocketed out to the correct dummy and brought it straight back with only a sideways glance at the 2nd dummy. A really good lesson for her to trust that there is always a dummy at the end of the rainbow On the way back to the car I realised that I was missing a dummy. Spotted it half way across the oval, set Em up on the right hand side and sent her - little rascal saved me a trip Oh, and I've had to stop calling out "sit" at a distance when she is having a free run as she's started looking over her shoulder or offering a sit and expecting me to throw a dummy Will give that a rest for a little while!

corvus, what you are looking for I have lucked upon with one particular friend/mentor/competitor. We learn from each other, share our goals/achievements/training problems, our conversations are often rather involved and we also manage to solve the world's problems at the same time

My Dally was doing the demos with this toy at the Pet Expo a few years back on the wholesalers stand. They sold out REALLY quickly

When you're proofing at the gate maybe put a super zoomie obstacle like a straight tunnel in the mix so she's running hard.

Like it Kavik!

I would be working on lots of shadow handling with accel and decel, then you need to decel coming in to the table so she puts the breaks on. Does that help? I think teaching a drop on the table is also a great idea. Don't get too stressed - speed is good! Just a teensy tiny bit more control is what you need

Tell Mr LL that the dogs can wave at the duckies when they fly away

Greyt post

Hmmmm... If you do the vast majority of your training standing, dog may be confused when you're sitting. Reflecting dog (in)ability to generalise perhaps? So he reverted to things he knew well. Also, you standing, perhaps easier for him to look at you, remain balanced and wave. Wonder what said dog would do if you sat down during retrieving training... Now back to the housework

shyfig, I suggest you change the sub-title of your topic to attract someone who can recommend a trainer. If you're not sure how to do it, click on the "Edit" feature on the bottom right hand corner of your original post and select "Full Edit", which will also allow you to change the sub-title (perhaps put "recommendation for trainer, Tenterfield, NSW" or similar)

RV - see if you can get along to a trial one day and either observe or help out as a thrower. I have benefited so much by having competed in retrieving already and also managed to help out at one of those trials as someone who placed the blinds. Whilst you have to make yourself inconspicuous you can still watch how a dog hunts an area for a bird, how persistent it is and how it was handled - although we are training at a very basic level I understand why the drills and groundwork are so important. I commented to LL the other day that I am yet to observe at a trial as I was too busy running from stake to stake with her dog I will make the effort this year!

Just as important as finding a brilliant trainer is being a student with a great attitude.

LL would be good to answer this one but she's probably out training Humans tend to differentiate between work and play. But I suspect that dogs don't. What if everything we train them to do is a really rewarding "game" (with rules of course)...obedience, agility, retrieving - how motivating would that be?

Not boring at all Vickie - it's a good reminder to keep an open mind too and not write a dog off because of preconceptions. I hope you are videoing the sessions at least for your viewing?

What for? Behavioural advice or dog sports? I have a number of mentors across obedience, agility and retrieving. Most are fellow competitors, some are instructors, some are friends and some are all of the aforementioned. I like how they compete, their attitude, their dogs' attitude and how they offer advice. Some are on line and others I've seen compete in other states and kept an eye out for seminars. At the moment I'm trying to deconstruct advice from some of the best retrieving trainers in the US (from books/DVDs) - it's too aversive for my liking but I can still pick out great training tips.

I will suss out the lay of the land in Vic....will chat with LP I think! Yes!!! I could not agree more.

Yep judges don't like enthusiasm Truly, it's so hard to keep a straight face - we were showing off to Mr TSD last night and he was nearly in tears How much would I get pinged for an over enthusiastic finish do you think? And what are the traps for flip finishes in the ring - I think they look lovely.

Thanks ness - would really appreciate it. I practice both with Ziggy but only ever do a regular finish in the ring. Em's style is better suited to a flip finish I think, and she will definitely be doing that in retrieving. I'll be teaching her both regardless. Although, her current idea of "find heel" is Springing into the air, bouncing off my left hip and landing in the perfect heel position....might need to refine that just a little