The Spotted Devil

I think it's less about "littermates" but having 2 puppies that are potentially of a similar size, age, disposition, confidence level etc etc. When a new puppy (of my breeding) joins my household the other bitches will have different relationships with her but she is clearly going to be submissive to them. I do notice that when I have pups of my breeding back to stay, littermates avoid each other and there is some level of tension when they interact, whereas the half-sisters play and hang out together a lot more. It's different when it's males and females. It's also going to be different across breeds and lines. I would not sell 2 puppies to the same household given my own experiences. The owners sound like they are doing the right thing - different puppy classes definitely help too - with younger puppies it's about confidence so learning to deal with the world on their own without falling back on their littermate is really important.

I definitely wouldn't breed on with this girl. I would do some investigations, if possible, to see where it has come from but, as others have said unfortunately sh!t happens. A good way to think about it is over the long term. Would you want to, 3 generations down the track, have to completely start again as this girl's issues are dominating your lines? I breed so I can have the dog I want in 20 years time.

OMG the money I spend on vet bills What I think of my vets?

The dog may have ingested bedding or a toy. Inappetence is definitely a common response to stress but it should be investigated. I hope the suspected cause/outcome is published. Both the kennels and the owner deserve the truth.

Received a pup back after only 2 weeks. I refunded in full and paid for transport because I just wanted that puppy back with me. Yes I'm out of pocket (after all the vet tests to disprove their allegations) but I don't care. I have the puppy. I owe them nothing.

The roll over behaviour normally precedes submissive urination. I've had a b!tch here for whelping that did it all the time. So I just stopped patting if she went to roll over. She LOVED pats so she quickly learnt to sit and lean against me for a pat rather than roll over and pee.

Given that the stray/feral cat population numbers in the 100s of 1000s, if not millions, these stats aren’t very helpful. Cats have low microchip rates, extremely low reclaim rates and many are not suitable for adoption.

No issue with the spinal nerves? Ziggy is 15 now and that causes him to need to toilet more frequently. He's treated with fortnightly acupuncture and laser therapy, monthly Synovan injection, twice daily gabapentin and nightly Galliprant.

I always am up front about pricing. But yes, in the context of a conversation or email. Not “how much for a female puppy?”

So your time is worth nothing?

Whilst I tend to agree with you with regards to the extreme price increases, I (and many others) have been seriously undercharging for a long time. In addition, breeding is more than one litter. This time I’ve been very fortunate with a large litter and healthy mum. However it’s balanced out by the costs of every other litter - 3 puppies to sell - one required corrective eye surgery at 6 weeks (not genetic) which was more than my puppy price; 5 live pups, 2 deceased - 1 euthanised at 4 weeks (congenital megaoesophagus); 7 pups - emergency c-section and 10 days later Ginny developed gangrenous mastitis which can kill a bitch in hours. Daily vet visits and antibiotics until it could be lanced and drained of putrid pus. Then the necrotic tissue was surgically removed 6 months later. I hip and elbow score my bitches too. Not cheap given it requires a GA. You were lucky @Rascalmyshadowwhich I’m very happy about. But breed long enough and you’ll experience every disaster in the book at some point.

Holy shit @Teebs that is bloody disgraceful.

At the end of the day “contracts” aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. Possession is 9/10ths of the law so I make sure I have strong relationships with my puppy people. It’s actually more effective than scaring someone with legal stuff. I have a girl going on breeders terms from this litter - they already have a puppy from me and I’ve told them their friendship means more to me than a litter. They will own the bitch (no charge) but the pedigree papers will be in my name. We may have one or more litters. The girl can come to me when in season or for breeding or stay with them. We will maintain open communication throughout and if they change their mind that’s ok. Costs will be for ongoing discussion, depending on expenses incurred, time put in, puppies born etc. We share the same values and love for our dogs which is more important than anything. These are people who sent me a package of freshly shorn lambs wool as a novel scent and texture for the pups

….wrong thread.

@Kirislin the masking gene is cool - really messes things up. In ESS, black is dominant and liver is recessive. Pretty simple stuff. But then you have tri-colour which gives the tan points that my Luna has. Her dad was a tri-colour but I didn’t realise Ginny carried tri….we ended up with 5 tri-coloured out of 7!!! The sire of this litter carries tri and we’ve ended up with 3 out of 10. But what’s cool is that the sire’s mother is genetically a tri-colour but also has the masking gene so looks liver and white! Which explains why tri-colour can disappear for generations!

Or an emergency c-section or a myriad of other things than can go wrong… gangrenous mastitis, puppy requiring x-ray, surgery, small litter. All things that stem from bad luck and that set you back thousands of dollars.

Just saw this on FB....not blaming the new puppy owner at all but how do you think this is going to end up.....? The poor Mum being expected to feed the pup on her own at 4.5 weeks! My lot start on solids ASAP, 3 to 3.5 weeks and Mum weans them when she's good and ready. There's a hell of a lot more to breeding than producing cute puppies. I like both these breeds but the combination makes me shudder, particularly without that critical socialisation with litter mates and mum.

Holy moly what a little stunner! Must not let Mr TSD see this - he's got a dreadful soft spot for Whippies

Oh beautifully put @Rebanne and so very true.

Yep, I’ve always said I work so I can afford to breed

Apologies if I come across a little passionate about this - I’ve had very little rest since last Thursday after my girl’s Caesarean section so this is very front of mind. My Dalmatian is close to 15 years old now. I was without a dog for 2 years whilst I waited for the right puppy from the right breeder at the right time. I was studying at University and saved up so I could travel interstate to meet the breeder and afford the asking price and associated costs.

Totally understand but the COVID situation is impacting the price and scarcity of a lot of things. As per @mackiemad’s post above I have absolutely zero legal rights once my pup has gone to its new owner because it’s considered property. Supply and demand is a reality. It’s like the vets that are accused of being selfish and greedy for charging for their time, expertise and expenses when owners can’t afford their bills. Of course we love our dogs but it doesn’t mean we should struggle to break even or drive ourselves into the ground. That said I’m not charging exorbitant amounts for my pups but that’s the least of the hoops my puppy people have to jump through. Kids can absolutely benefit from having pets in their lives but they don’t NEED a puppy as opposed to an older dog. There are plenty of well deserving kittens and cats looking for a new home too.

@Loving my Oldies that's a far cry from what would have been that girl's fate had she not ended up you and your friend! Whelping under the house, inadequate food and health treatments would be my guess.

I think you missed my point. It costs me thousands of dollars and hours to breed a litter - whether it goes as a family pet, therapy dog or conservation dog.

I guess it depends on how you define disgusting and greedy. If you mean: I spend thousands of dollars on vet bills, reproductive health and general health testing I feed the best quality food, joint supplements and probiotics that I can find I invest my time and skills into having fit, athletic dogs who love to train and compete in dog sports I spend hours researching the background of dogs I want to use in my breeding program, talking to my mentors and educating myself I pretty much live, eat and sleep next to the whelping box for the first 3-4 weeks I spend my time ensuring mum has 4 meals a day, mum and pups have antibiotics twice daily, pups are weighed daily and wormed fortnightly and everything is spotlessly clean. I may need to toilet pups if Mum is struggling. Oh and I'm looking down the barrel at trimming 180 nails this week. I take time off work or I squeeze it in at 11pm at night when Mum and pups are settled I have cleaned up every bodily fluid in existence, from poo and wee to placenta vomit, not to mention having to deal with puppies who die during whelping I respond politely to the dozens and dozens of emails from potential puppy buyers every week, knowing that some are just tyre kickers, some have sent an email to 20 different breeders and some shouldn't own a goldfish. I spend hours finding the right homes for my pups and would take them back with no questions asked. I give lifetime support to every single pup I breed, have them for holidays when I can and ensure ongoing education for their owners Then yes, I concur, and am happy to be labelled as such. Oh and then there's my darling Em, who developed mammary cancer, after giving me 2 beautiful litters. $15,000K worth of chemotherapy gave me 3 more quality years with her before she relapsed and I had to let her go. Breeding is expensive. I probably break even on actual costs but certainly fail to charge adequately for my time and expertise.