lovemesideways

Seeing as this is a direct quote, you should have no trouble then providing the book, the page number and the year of edition in which this appeared. You might also like to expand the quote so that we can see where Koehler is referring to a 'young puppy making noise after he has had 5 or 6 days to adjust'. I sure can! I have the book right here actually The book is The Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training. Page number is 64 Heres the full paragraph. It is in chapter 13. The puppy prospect. And it is in regards to bringing your puppy home for the first time. "The right start If he should whine and yelp excessively after he's had five or six days to adjust, you'll have to start correct him. For a small amount, you can prevent a common mistake even among experienced dog kennel people, that of making it possible for the dog to run away from correction. By equipping your pup with a snug collar from which a piece of light line is dragging, you can speedily convince him that, if he tries to avoid correction by holing up under something, he'll be brought out rapidly and quite uncomfortable. It's amazing how the presence of a light line can cause a pup to do a bit of reasoning. If the line is of slick material it will not catch on things, and there's not much chance of your dog being caught and choked by it. Use a line that would not hold the pup's dead weight if you feel your situation would permit an accident. After a few times of snarling "out!" at him when he's creating a noise nuisance, he'll respond to your reproof with a show of guilt. From that time on, when he offends, rush back to the line-not the dog-and work your way to the collar; then give him a good shaking and sting his upper thighs a bit with a folded belt. No, such discouragement from a senseless practice will no blunt his alarm potential. And don't worry that he's too young to learn. Regardless of your pups age, your hand will be forced by your neighbors. " As I said, I feel that we have moved beyond this highly harsh and simplistic view of training. No I do not have any issue with a well placed correction, I in fact own and use a prong collar. But using a method such snarling OUT! to make a puppy be quiet, or tying a string to a puppy so he can't get away when you drag him to you and smack him with a belt is not what I would call training in todays sense. So looking for a trainer who uses just these methods alone will get you into trouble, which is why you want to look for someone (like K9 Pro) who uses correction or reward based on the individual situation.

Direct quote from one of Koehlers training books, this is in response to a young puppy making noise (after he has had 5 or 6 days to adjust of course) "when he offends, rush back to the line-not the dog-and work your way to the collar; then give him a good shaking and sting his upper thighs a bit with a folded belt" I someone think we're beyond this as far as training goes, not sure why you would want to go back. What you should be looking for isn't someone who just used corrections, but someone who will use the correct tool for the situation. Whether that be clicker training or corrections

I think I have not made myself clear enough in the opening post which has led to some confusion about my situation, so I will reiterate. How is this a normal social interaction, Example. "I've had a women tell me loudly how incredibly rude I was, when I had to physically stop her young daughter running at Roscoe while he was tied up at the oval. The daughter whom she had sent running over in the first place with "Oh look darling a baby, go pat him"!". A socially acceptable behaviour is to say "hello can I pat you puppy", "can my child pat your dog please?" or "Oh your puppy is adorable, can I say hello?". I have no issue with this (like I have already mentioned), and 99% of the time I say sure go ahead and it’s a great experience all around. I enjoy the gushing too, who wouldn't? I'm a very proud owner of a beautiful GSD! Or the other situation where someone asks politely "Hes lovely, Can I pat him" but I am working on something and say "not right now sorry" with a smile. Sure I do get some weird looks, but I don’t really care and the general response is “Ok that’s fine” and we all keep moving. Yet how is this in any way acceptable social behaviour on her part? She sends her young child running at my tied up puppy without asking me (I was standing in front of him). Not only is it very dangerous, when you don't know the dog or puppy, to tell your young child to run at it. Especially considering the ever increasing level of reports about dog bites. Its also very rude to approach someone elses dog without asking first. Let alone say "go get him darling"! and send your kid running towards a strange dog/puppy. How is it a normal social response to literally hurl abuse at someone for saying "no thankyou" when the try to grab your puppy without asking? Or to directly ignore someones request to not feed or touch your dog whilst playing tug. example "I even had a vet nurse say "Oh don't worry it will be fine" when I expressly told her not to feed Roscoe a liver treat, and try to give it to him anyway." Let me put it this way, If I was wearing a beautiful scarf made of soft looking fabric, and a woman walked up to me on the street. She says "Oh that scarf is lovely, can I feel it?" I say, "Oh thank you so much, but I would prefer it if you didn’t touch it ” What would be the correct social response. The woman smiles back and says "oh ok" and you part ways. Or the woman laughs and says "Oh dont worry its fine" and starts touching you and your new scarf. My point is that, when did it become acceptable to just touch someones dog without asking. Or directly ignore them when they say no. Or to worse, respond with hostility? It seems to me like the general public have the belief that a puppy is something of a social experience. A puppy is there for them, not for the owner. And it is somehow socially acceptable to call someone a “stupid bitch” simply because they stop your kid from grabbing your dog.

Really this is a topic in itself,(which some of the trainers here could probably answer much better than me!). http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/43479-socialisation-neutralisation/page__p__652269__hl__neutralisation__fromsearch__1#entry652269 have a read of that thread. it explains a lot of this way better than I ever could!

That so funny, I have never thought of that! My friend pointed out to me, when I was despairing over how obsessed with my friends dog Roscoe was, that it was fantastic because I have found such a big distraction to use in his training! I guess I can look at it that way, I'm lucky to have these crazy fools hurling abuse at me while trying to grab my dog, great training for Roscoe :D

:thumbsup: Sounds like you're going great with Wilbur. Especially owning a breed like Labradors (my other dog is a lab ).. I would imagine its a lot more difficult then a GSD, who aren't as naturally into people as Labs! This is good advice thank you !

Just to reiterate what I said in the beginning. I understand puppies are adorable (especially mine ;D!) and everyone wants to say hello, and most people are great about it, asking first and I pretty much always say yes. Or I'll even say "Hold on till I finish this game then you can come say hi!". My issue is with the ideal that as a stranger, you have some sort of right to pat another persons puppy or dog, just because its cute. If I say no, then people should respect that (feel free to think I'm weird, I probably am!), but the response of hurling abuse at me because I have said no? Or even (and yes this happened) telling me its totally fine, and trying to grab his leash While we were in the middle of a game of tug, so they could pull him over to say Hi. That is really just incredibly rude behaviour. I'm pretty surprised by the general ideal that I should "get over it". When very similar threads about people being approached by others with dogs have always had the response that yes, you should ASK first. And if the person says no, you should respect that and move on. Why is it different just because someone doesn't have a dog? This wasn't about how I should raise my puppy, because I am not asking for peoples opinion on that and if you really want to waste your time telling me how wrong I am then well, its your time to waste I guess? This was the point, Quote: Now don't get me wrong, I am quite happy to let Roscoe interact with strangers, in a controlled way that I choose. But the weird hostility that results from being politely told "no sorry, you can't pat him" is just so odd. Am I the only one who has come across this? Seriously, he is my dog, if I don't want you to touch him then DON'T! When did it suddenly become ok to totally ignore someones direct instruction because "its fine and you're wrong". Argh! Its very frustrating. Like NAO said, I do not know where the general public gets the sense of entitlement to someone else's puppy!

a bad tradesman blames their tools. It's not the people that have been damaging it's the owners permissiveness of the behaviour that has allowed it to go on. Now it's annoying - because there wasn't enough forethought into trying to shape the dog to behave properly when in that situation. Puppies need to be exposed to things to learn action and consequence, as well as be put in a position where they can learn so practically. Life is random - people will touch your dog, brush against it, bump it, hell i've had people kick one of mine whilst walking through a market and they can deal with it because it's been the overall idea taught to them - no matter WHAT happens look to your handler because they're awesome and they will deal with it. I think the idea of not allowing certain people to touch your dogs is something that needs to be thrown out ESPECIALLY if you plan to have this dog as more then one that lives in a secure run and doesnt go out socially. I shoved my dogs into peoples arms, let them be gushed over, poked, prodded, hell even let kids take the leash and cuddle them. Doesnt make them any less serious when it comes to work and training at all in fact I have seen how much it actually helps... and my dogs will never have a WTF I DONT GET IT look on their face when something random or weird happens. I don't agree. Just because I don't allow every single person to pat my dog whenever they want to does not mean he isn't being exposed to a incredibly wide variety of situations. Sure I don't just allow anyone to run up and pat him, but that doesn't then mean he will never have someone pat him. Just because I don't let some little girl rush and jump on him when he is tied up and I am not holding him, doesn't mean I will never let children approach him. Its not black and white. I control every situation involving him(as much as I can) so that it turns out the best for him. This in itself is frustrating, where is the idea that he has to be patted and shoved around by every single person to become socialised/neutralised to them? I see it as the same as his training around other dogs, he doesn't need to play with/interact with every single dog to learn about them. So why does it suddenly become fact that because I don't take him into the dog park because some guy demands it, or I don't allow a group of girls to play tug with him, that it equals him not being socialised.

I doubt I'll have any problems :D ( though Im a idiot and sure to stuff something up! Lol), seeing as I'm following a very specific training program that's designed by a awesome trainer. But thanks ! Even if I do have issues, I have that same trainer to get advice from! Considering Roscoe is only 18 weeks and only a few days ago I had him sitting, fully focused on me, with about 20 cages full of shrieking fluttering birds less than a meter behind him, I think I'm doing ok. ;) Though he just started staring at himself in the tv reflection and cocking his head.. so maybe not. Lol.

Exactly! Why is it "weird" if you don't want someone patting your dog? My Lab Riddick has issues with people due to his first 16 weeks of being totally isolated from them. I did a lot of training and hes generally great, but if someone was to try and throw themselves upon him, or run at him when he was tied up, he would freak out. So am I just supposed to Allow this to happen? Because hey, its weird to not let people pat your dog..

This is what I am aiming for, and so far it is going brilliant. He will sit and focus on me completely even whilst people are patting him. I don't force him to stay away from people or keep him seperate from everyone. I simply control every interaction. Especially small children! He has interacted with a lot of kids, all of whom have asked (or their parents have) very politely if they can say hello, and I have been able to make it a nice experience for everyone. If I simply "let him go" he would 100% scared the crap out of most kids. 17 kilos of puppy jumping on you when you're little wouldn't be pleasant.

It's weird to say no to someone wanting to pat a puppy so it's no wonder people get offended. I intentionally take my puppies to busy places so they'll be smothered by strangers wanting to cuddle them. Why is it weird? Seriously, why? He is My dog. He isn't yours. If I don't want you patting him or feeding him then you should respect that! There is a difference in politely asking if you can have a pat, and rudely walking up without a word and sticking your hand in his face. Like I said, I have no issue with people patting him, but when I control it. Not at random. Hes interacted with hundreds of people, but all under my terms. When did it become necesarry for him to be patted by every stranger to become socialised to them?

Edit: Deleted by accident, trying to fix!! Edit2: Yep I deleted the OP by accident cause I'm a idiot. Lol. If anyone has it then feel free to repost! Otherwise it is gone. I was basically saying this, "When did it become acceptable to just touch someones dog without asking. Or directly ignore them when they say no. Or to worse, respond with hostility? It seems to me like the general public have the belief that a puppy is something of a social experience. A puppy is there for them, not for the owner. And it is somehow socially acceptable to call someone a “stupid bitch” simply because they stop your kid from grabbing your dog."

Ive never had someone buy a picture of mine, so wouldn't know what that was like

For the German Shepherd Dog (GSD) I think that the standard black and tan is the favourite, with perhaps a leaning towards the darker masking around the face. A lot of people don't realise the range of colours a GSD can come it! I have been asked so many times already what sort of dog Roscoe is, because hes a sable. (Which just so happens to be my favourite colour ;)) Despite the fact that the first recorded GSD was in fact Sable. Example, rickyleap2 by lovemesideways, on Flickr Black and Tan Roscoe at 16 Weeks by lovemesideways, on Flickr Sable His coat has already changed a lot, and will continue to do so until he reaches maturity. And for a Labrador, I think it changes by the season to be honest. Chocolates were the favourite, but I have noticed that the number of black lab puppies is increasing dramatically. So I would say that Black labs are becoming the new favourite. Which they should cause black is obviously the best :D bday5 by lovemesideways, on Flickr Not biased at all.....;)

OOh I love this thread Here is Riddick! Riddick 16 weeks by lovemesideways, on Flickr 16 weeks, the day I brought him home Riddick 16 weeks by lovemesideways, on Flickr at 16 weeks, sleeping against my mums dog Rover. My favourite photo of him as a puppy Riddick 17 weeks by lovemesideways, on Flickr 17 weeks, sitting in the backyard Riddick Beach Zoomies by lovemesideways, on Flickr and now(ish) almost 2 years old, zoomies at the beach! Christmas Riddick by lovemesideways, on Flickr and very sad in his christmas hat Roscoe is still a puppy but this is him so far :D Storm and her Puppies by lovemesideways, on Flickr Few days old with his mum Storm Roscoe at 6.5 weeks by lovemesideways, on Flickr 6.5 weeks. I got to photograph his litter <3 Roscoe 8.5 Weeks by lovemesideways, on Flickr 8.5 weeks A few days after I brought him home Roscoe at 16 Weeks by lovemesideways, on Flickr 16 weeks 2 weeks ago at the beach!

smalllogochristmasriddick3 by lovemesideways, on Flickr "What do you mean I can't open my presents early? "

Thanks everyone for your replies ! Roscoe is totally fine so thats the main thing in all this. Hes much too young to go for proper walks being only 13 weeks, and I don't want him interacting with strange dogs, which is why we go to places like this oval that are not for dogs. Unfortunately people like this guy have to ruin it for the rest of us I sent the local council a email so will see what they say when they get back to me! That way I have a record in case the guy shows up again. Can anyone find a link to leash laws in Sydney? I can't find anything. I'm curious how the retractable leashes are legal if by law your leash can only be 2 meters?

This is what I'm wondering, I'm in sydney and cannot find any info regarding leash length on the council websites. This. Just to clarify, He was more implying that Roscoe would be taken away and shot. Not that he would do it himself. Edit: Snap Sandra! beat me too it.

I have a delightfully crazy 13 week old GSD puppy who is a furry demon that is learning slowly how to be the best dog ever (I can dream right? :D) One of the things I do with him is taking him out to anywhere and everywhere, and he is never off leash. By this I mean that he is either on a normal short leash, or he is wearing a harness and a long line (10 meters long to be exact!). Earlier today I took him to a nearby oval, attached the long line to his harness and off we went. I generally have the end of the line attached to my leg while the rest just trails along the ground. The oval we were at has a fence alone 2 and a 1/2 sides, 1 is a higher fence used for cricket or baseball that goes around corner (very similar to this http://www.steelcofence.com/Images/BallfieldFence/Baseball%20Backstop%206.JPG) and the other is to block the side of the oval where it drops off because there is a walking track that goes down and around the side. Roscoe and I were playing a awesome game and having a great time when I notice a very energetic boxer mix come racing along the outside of the higher fencing. Its on the opposite side of the oval to where we were playing around so I didn't really mind. Roscoe saw him, stopped for a moment to have a look and then went straight back to the much more interesting game of chase mum around for treats ;)! (yay!) There was a guy behind the BoxerX with his younger son, they where playing with a ball and totally ignoring the dog. Then the BoxerX spotted Roscoe. and started running along the fence keeping his eye on us, he came to where the fence stopped, slipped under the log divider and started running straight at us. Now I don't care what dog, what breed, age, sex, whatever. I do not want anything or anyone running up to my puppy without permission. Not only is it unsafe, its also detrimental to the training I am doing. I yelled out to the guy "Call your dog!" he looked over and went back to playing with his son. Yelled again "Mate, Call you dog!" whilst stepping on the long lone closest to roscoe. Guy does nothing, BoxerX kept coming so I growled and stomped my feet at it with a loud "AH Go away!", all the while shoveling treats into roscoes mouth. The boxer stopped but continued to stare at the puppy with very over the top body posture (Tail totally straight, hackles fully up, leaning forward, head up, mouth closed and eyes fixated on Roscoe). Started to circle me to get to where roscoe was mostly behind me. I followed him, and when he tried approaching again did the same thing. Growled and yelled at him. Guy finally seems to notice and come walking over with a pissed off expression on his face. Whistles for his dog who trots towards him then turns around and continues to stare at Roscoe. Then he starts having a go at me for yelling at his dog/ "Look lady don't you yell at my dog, he ain't doin' nothin', he just wants to give your puppy a sniff!" I responded that I had asked him to call his dog, I was training my puppy and I don't want him approaching other dogs or other dogs approaching him. Guy says "Thats stupid my dog is fine he just wants to sniff, you shouldn't be yelling at dogs you don't know or they might bite you and your mutt!" Still trying to be polite since really I just wanted to go back to training my dog, I told him that it doesn't matter how friendly his dog was, I don't want my puppy being approached by dogs I don't know. This is a on leash area and if he could just clip a lead on his dog and move to the other end of the oval I would appreciate it. Then he got mad, started swearing at me to "mind your own f-ing business lady, your puppy isn't even on a leash so I couldn't say shit or do shit, I came here to throw a ball with my son an Bruiser (the boxerX) can do whatever the f- he wants. Go on Bruiser" and the dog started coming towards us again growling! I growled back, stomped at it Again and yelled at it to go away. Then told the guy to keep his dog away from me and my puppy or I will be reporting him to the rangers and he starts hurling abuse at me. "you can't do shit your puppy isn't even on a leash, i'll tell them he bit my son if you try anything and he'll be shot like the mutt he is" amongst a high level of swearing. This about a 13 week old gsd puppy who was sitting behind me still, happily chewing a piece of grass totally oblivious to what was happening. By now this guy was actually starting to scare me, he was a big guy, his dog was acting in a way that to me said it didn't have good intentions, and I'm alone with a puppy in a deserted oval (though its next to a road with a few cars driving past). So I gathered up the long line and started trying to back off, but the boxer was circling us. SO I pulled out my phone and told the guy to call his dog I was going to send photos of it to the council rangers. Guy swore at me more but whistled for his dog, and I hurriedly made my way back to the car. Roscoe didn't have any negative impact from the situation, which is my main concern, but it certainly freaked me out pretty good. So I'm not sure if I should actually email the council and report this guy? His dog didn't do anything, and neither did he (except for screaming at me) but it was pretty scary. And it was all in a on leash area and he had no lead or collar on his dog at all. Plus this is a oval I frequent a lot and I really don't want to come across this guy again. And is a long line still considered a leash? Should I just leave it? sigh, wish dickheads didn't ruin it for the rest of us. (Edit for spelling and grammar cause I'm still a bit freaked out and thats my excuse for sucking at typing. ;))

This is why I love dog parks. So much goes on in them that is below the notice of most people, but it's really interesting when you start watching. Kivi has left me picking my jaw up off the ground several times because he handles tense social situations in quite complex ways with such success sometimes. I learn a lot from him. Do you ever find it stressful? I know I do, seeing all this underlying talk going on between the dogs and the owners are oblivious. My partners German Shepherd Ricky was for example, becoming extremely stressed by another GSD who was being very rude and pushy, it was like this other dog was trying to push ricky into a confrontation.(Putting his head over his shoulder, growling, getting right into his body space). I could see in the way Rickys face was tense, ears back, hackles going up, tail curling, lip curling a little that it was a matter of moment before he snapped at the dog out of most likely fear. I intervened, blocking the other dog from Ricky with my body and then moving Rickys attention to his frisbee and getting him away from the other dog. This all happened in a matter of moments of course. My partner had no clue, and the owner of the other GSD told me off because I should "Let them sort themselves out"

If someone could get in contact with me I'm happy to take the time to come get some professional photos of her if you would like . Let me know via PM

I would contact now I was in contact with the breeder of my GSD before I even got Riddick. SO thats around 3 years. It meant when I came back to her I went straight to the top of the list for a puppy

Hes from Beychief. She breeds for police and correctional services I don't know of any Shutzhund club here in Sydney, feel free to advise me otherwise! I would really appreciate any info DVDs or books you recommend! PM me if you have the time. It would be a great environment for him to be around even if I didn't want to do it. And as far as what I'm doing with him. Obedience is the only thing I am sure of at the moment, everything else is just possibilities Well I think the foundations for all of the activities around are basically the same. So if I work on foundations for everything I can't go wrong can I :D? Plus as Shell and Huski mentioned I am running through a training program with K9 Pro so as long as I follow his guidance I Know I can't go wrong ! (Though I learned today that leaving him in the yard with a basket of wet laundry while I went to grab some more pegs from inside was a mistake :p Apparently zoomies with a wet shirt in your mouth are highly enjoyable.) Sorry to hijack as well SK! We should have our own thread for the working line crazies :p

Oh nice What are your plans for him? The plan..Surviving puppyhood ;D? Haha. Not too sure, I'm working with K9 Pros puppy program, building his drive and focus in the right direction ! Working on tug and using the flirt pole at the moment to do that. (Heres a vid from today! , first time on the front lawn with all its added distractions, and I brought my lab Riddick along too to make it even harder :D! He did excellent. I am terribly awkward still but getting better)Obedience is definitely first! Love the idea of tracking but no idea where to start. Also agility! The possibilities are endless with such a clever drivey pup ! What are your plans for your Mal? I think more photos are needed ;D!