Luccio

very good post rhapsodical78, very touched on what you have said!!!!! I was the one that posted the following is anyone on this discussion topic currently active in schutzhund? has anyone on this current thread seen or followed a green dog trained from bh,sch1,sch2 and sch3??? sorry for all the questions, just curious Reason for this post was not to find out who was doing the sport so that they can be crucified, i just wanted to see how many on the thread at that time! were active in the sport to comment on it, i for one do not like commenting or judging on anything without fully understanding it in and out. As many people were putting their 2 cents worth in and just seeing the bite work part of it only and do not see the other aspects of the sport like you have mentioned. I believe that if anyone gets the opportunity to see one of these special dogs trained from a green dog trained to a sch3 level or even a mere bh level you would understand how much work goes into it and how dedicated the handler and dog needs to be. Sorry if i came across like i was trying to bluff people with my questions but was only trying to make a point. I will stand up and say that i have been active in the sport for the last 6 years and that 99% of the people that i have met in that time would be the most responsible dog owners that i have ever met cheers

no its not and its not willing to be embraced by many people either which has never worked in its favour. If our own kennel council cant see it for what it is what hope does the general public? Steve Austin showed us a fabulous video for the NDTF course - when he went to the Czech republic and they did a military dog demonstration in the middle of the street. Parents, children and government officials were all there watching these high class dogs work (not just sport, real working military class dogs) and take down assailants in full bite suits, even while firing a gun near the dog etc. It was incredible and everyone watched and cheered as the dogs worked, with no more then a simple barrier between them and the dogs. Why is it so acceptable in europe? Even a russian lady was telling me how her GSD was trained (pet only) in Schutzhund so it could be a fully trustworthy family pet. She remembers it doing sleeve work and obedience but she was never scared of it (actually she is more scared of the average pet dogs here in australia then the trained dogs in Russia) and finds it strange that no one here does it at all. Many of these Sch/IPO dogs are also multi purpose, but how many people are willing to out themselves and their dogs here in victoria publicly now? Go look at Amandas website malinois.net.au to see how dogs can be multi purpose, achieve to a great standard and go own to protect and serve with our armed forces. Its Schutzhund that has helped improve the genetics and quality of animals in this country as well, given our services a source of working animals and genetics that would otherwise been out of reach due to import and time and financial constraints. We under appreciate and now punish a valuable service and resource we have here in Australia. T hat is what i mean if we could get people to understand it as they do in Europe, maybe then the sport can be enbraced here as well. What we have to realise is that in europe, once upon a time even before world war 1 and 2 they relied heavily on working dogs and threfore understand it through many generations on how it has benefited them from then to now. It is something that most of them have been brought up with.

Thanks for the clarification. I wonder if the authorities would know the difference? I expect that they do, given that for years they've been looking to stop the sport but as I understand it, couldn't do so due to the wording of previous regulation. That the wording has changed to specifically include the 'biting of anything worn' and that the Council are now pulling Sch into the legal lime light indicates to me that they knew exactly what the difference is. They probably just don't see the difference. Dog biting sleeve for sport = dog biting arm for protection = dog biting arm Unfortunately. That is what is frustrating!!!! It is just not about biting, it is about the control the handler has over the animal, the control the animal has over it's own desires, the ability for the animal to take instructions under pressure, the state of mind the animal is in (the drive). Like i said this is not easily seen/read by many.

Depends what the charges are. The courts dont care who supports the person charged only if the law exists and if its proven they broke it .The penalty may be lighter but if its guilty of breaking the law its guilty. Understand what you are saying and agree this case would mainly be about the current law being broken, However if enough probable doubt is presented to show that the law is unjust maybe the judge would look at it in a different manner and if not we could still use the support for the long run in the getting the law changed for the sake of the sport and the breeds involved.

Luke Being able to see the difference between schutzhund and personal protection requires some knowledge, understanding and explanation. Do not take this wrongly and assume that they are very similar, what i am trying to say is that to a person who has no general knowledge dog training let alone on personal protection and schutzhund, just seeing the bite work part of it they can easily form their opinion and assume that the both are the same, unless the diference is correctly explained and shown. I thik that we all in the dog training world can agree that picking up training methods is an art form to it's self. That is why i think that if we can get knowledgable establishments,departments ,proffesional trainers out side shutzhund to back the sport it might help them in the court case cheers

julie Ok then i can think about 12 to 15 dogs and handlers that have achieved a title and passed something this year under local and international judges. What do i need? to nominate them on your website, let me know and i will get on to it this weekend.[/b]

thanks wayrod, will definately be looking into some of your ideas, cheers

Hello all, in light to the current battle that the dog sport fraternity is facing in Victoria, I believe that apart from the financial support that they are asking for, that is not going to be enough to for the battle that we face at hand. I fully agree that financial support for the case is a great idea which I have and will back. The other thing that needs to be done here is that if others in the proffesional dog community can show their support to the dog sport fraternity it would possibly go a long way in the court case. What I am looking at doing is getting a support letter/petition set up for the likes of professional dog trainers, clubs, associations, etc outside the dog sport fraternity (all Australian states). If we could show that others in the dog industry support and value the sport it would benefit the dog sport fraternity immensely and will hopefully add a few more arrows to their bow. Apart from this forum I have also been visiting another one which is more dedicated to the working dog community and this topic of the dog sport’s battle is also being discussed and like this forum is getting a lot of support from others in the dog world. So the way I see it why not harness all this positive support and make it usable where it would count immediately at the court case. I will be meeting with a few people in the dog sport world to get some help to draft a letter/petition up, so that it would hold up in a court of law and for the case at hand. However any ideas and help would be appreciated. In the mean time those who are willing to support this or know any professionals, clubs, industries, departments that are willing to put pen to paper and show their support, please pm me so i can foward my email address. I will collect all contact details and when the letter/petition is ready I will then send to all. p.s- not being rude but only interested in people who are willing to help, have read the forum thoroughly and have taken into account the comments people have made either against or for the sport. Cheers hope to hear from you soon

has anyone on this discussion topic currently active in schutzhund? has anyone on this current thread seen or followed a green dog trained from bh,sch1,sch2 and sch3??? sorry for all the questions, just curious

just because it is not brindle does not mean that it is not a dutchy!!!!! Yes it does. :p sorry!!!?

just because it is not brindle does not mean that it is not a dutchy!!!!!

Nope, it is a Belgian. mmmm looks more like a mix aka dutch shepherd I would agree looks more like Dutch Shepherd although they are normally more brindle mmmmm some say that your male looks like a mix??????

Nope, it is a Belgian. mmmm looks more like a mix aka dutch shepherd

was the helper on the long attack the smaller younger guy???

does anyone know which part of the character work the belgian got hurt in?, was in in the long attack/courage test or in the short work? Also who was the helper the big guy or the small guy

Thats right myszka schutzhund is a sport that has three phases to it. It is a very complex sport and only the very dedicated ones get results,even many so called dog trainers struggle successfully put together all the three parts tracking, obedience and the character work together.

Anyone who is interested in the sport please check out the following sites for listing of clubs around Melboune, Queensland, NSW and New Zealand www.sportdogaustralia.com www.schutzhundaustralia.com