First Time Puppy Owner

Agreed 100% - great if only a food allergy, but a bl**dy nusience if not. We are on a second one to make certain that it's not food as the first one he had Sentinel Spectrum and megaderm both possible having different sources of protein. Thus second one is IAMS (formally eukenuba (sp) ) Response Fish and Potato - also know as Response F&P. 12 days into it and I think we will trial for 8-10 wks (as long as the large bag last) but he is still on Prednisone thus currently masking any scratching issues, but will be ween off by the 9th of Jan completely and I guess we will see 100% then if there are other factors to his itchiness/chewing. Which sadly i have no doubt there are - then perhaps next step will be the skin prick test, cortravance to try to keep allergies at by and possibly last resort will be Atopica *sigh* (ps have done homeopathic vet, a couple hundred in too diff shampoos etc)

Nicole - if her coat is fine and the only prob is you want her to put on weight, then feed bones only found in here diet. mixed meats including lamb and kangaroo, whole grain rice, vegetables, natural fats and oils, yeast, garlic, kelp, vitamins A, D3, E, K, B1, B2, B6, B12, niacin, pantothermic acid, folacin, biotin and natural organic acids, plus minerals calcium, phosphorus, sodium, copper, zinc, iron, manganese and iodine. Also contains Yuccs shidigera extract. So keep up the same number of cups of dry daily and give her one lamb flap or a small shank a day. Her poos will return to normal after 5 days.

Do you give the dog bones daily?

A friend told me about a new, which I now use and is much more effective and faster than previous treatments I have used. Pyohex Shampoo diluted will take the itch out of it whilst drying at the same time or you can also get pyohex oitment. I can truely say i swear by it now!

This might help - I posted this in the Good Aussie Kibble Thread Approx Prices & Kgs & Per Kg & Per Dog Weight & Per Day - example being used 38 kg dog and what they suggest to feed if only dry, and a cup being 250grm approx. Advance - $98ish =15kgs = $6.53 per kilo = 4 cups = $6.53 a day Optimum - $34 = 8kgs = $4.25per kilo = 4 cups = $4.25 a day Hills SD - $95ish = 15kgs = $6.33 per kilo = 5 cups = $7.91 a day Nature's Gift - $19 = 4kgs = $4.75 per kilo = 4 cups = $4.75 a day Out of interest I did the same for Orijen Orijen - $120 = 13.6kgs = $8.82 per kilo = 3 cups = $6.61 a day - NOT AS BAD AS I THOUGHT!

If you go with the young pup make sure you take out insurance immediately as that way if anything develops then you have that to help you out. Thank god I took out insurance when I did as 2 mths later the allergies started and I would be up sh*t creek without a pad right now if I didn't have it due to the on going nature of allergies.

Depends if it is a contact allergy it might be controlled with a spray called Cortovance - steroid that does not get into the blood stream. But if he is like many with many different allergies, you could be on a long road to discover what and how to control it - antihistamines, food trials, allergy testing, possibly even a drug called Atopica .... the possibilities are almost seemingly endless as I have discovered with my allergy GR boy - still not on the home straight

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=152768 Check out this thread - lists foods and ingredients and more and more people that do feed kibble, prefer to know what is in their dogs food - hope it helps and you are successful By the way where abouts are you opening your store??? Also Judith from Artemis is on the hunt for a qld stockist that does not sell live animals so get in contact with her on [email protected]

Perhaps she needs to read their own press http://www.championpetfoods.com/Australia_...mer_Release.pdf Q: HOW DOES IRRADIATION AFFECT ORIJEN? A: In recent weeks, Champion Petfoods has conducted extensive testing on ORIJEN Cat sold in Australia. From a combination of laboratory test results, scientific papers from reputable journals, and consultation from various nutritional experts and veterinarians around the world, we have discovered 2 primary factors: 1) VITAMIN A DEPLETION IN IRRADIATED FOODS Our tests show that irradiation of ORIJEN Cat at 50kGY causes a depletion of vitamin A of up to 77%. The irradiation levels applied to ORIJEN in Australia exceeded this amount. We tested ORIJEN cat foods at varying levels of irradiation (0 kGY (control), 25kGY and 50kGY). The results show a direct and linear relationship between the increase in irradiation dosage and vitamin A depletion. In other words, more vitamins were depleted as the level of irradiation increased. Literature published by the American College of Veterinary Pathologists (2007) shows that depletion of vitamin A from irradiated cat food is associated with the same symptoms in cats as are reported in Australia (CASSIDY ET. AL, 2007). An excerpt from the American College of Veterinary Pathologists’ study supports this finding: “Both SPF (specific pathogen free) and conventional status cats had been fed to appetite on the same commercial formula ration (Gilbertson and Page Ltd., Welwyn Garden City, UK), except that the ration fed to the SPF cats had been irradiated by a single-exposure gamma-radiation treatment between 36.3 and 47.3 kGy (Cobalt 60 irradiator; Isotron Ireland, Tullamore, Ireland). The irradiated diet was consumed to the same extent as the non-irradiated diet, and affected animals did not lose weight until the developing ataxia hindered their access to food… Following supplementation of the irradiated diet with pasteurized proprietary tinned cat food in the winter of 2001 and, ultimately, the replacement of the irradiated diet with an equivalent pasteurized diet, no further cases occurred”.The report describes an investigation of 8 cases where the disease is associated with the long-term feeding of cats on a gamma-irradiated dry food diet. This study is available on the internet from the link below: www.vetpathology.org/cgi/content/full/44/6/912 2) THE FORMATION AND RELEASE OF FREE RADICALS IN IRRADIATED FOODS A second major impact of irradiation is the formation and release of free radicals. Irradiation does not affect all foods equally. ORIJEN is a nutritionally dense food with much higher levels of long-chain fatty acids (DHA, EPA) than conventional pet foods. These fatty acids are susceptible to oxidation following irradiation. Bi-products from fatty acid oxidation, mainly free radicals, are released into the body with the potential to cause tissue damage. Combined with the loss of antioxidant vitamins (see Vitamin A described above), free radicals are thought to be a major contributing factor. When irradiation is applied to food, the molecular structure of long chain fatty acids (DHA, EPA) is altered. This causes the formation of free radicals that are then released into the body. ORIJEN CAT foods contain very high levels of EPA and DHA unsaturated fatty acids and therefore have a much greater potential for free radical formation (in response to irradiation) than do conventional dry cat foods. Scientific evidence shows that increased oxidative bi-products combined with decreased presence of antioxidant vitamins (see above) are consistent with the symptoms shown in Australian cats. The fact that cats in Australia treated with vitamin and antioxidant supplementation have shown improvements supports this finding. An excerpt from the American College of Veterinary Pathologists’ study supports this position: “Irradiation is known to reduce the vitamin content of food, the effect of which may be indirect, in that inadequate amounts of these compounds may be available to counteract the effects of free radicals generated by normal cell metabolism. A previous study found that irradiation of a feline diet containing 9.8% fat with a 2- to 5-Mrad dose totally destroyed its vitamin A and β-carotene content, whereas thiamine, vitamin B6 (pyridoxine), and folic acid were depleted to a lesser extent, and vitamin E concentrations appeared to be unaffected by this dose of radiation. The relatively high dietary fat requirement of cats may be significant in this context in that irradiation of this fat component could potentially generate higher concentrations of micronutrient-damaging free radicals than would be generated on irradiating diets of lower fat content.”

I thought the paper said due to it altering the vitamins - destroying vitamin A - abolutely vital to a felines in their diet??? :D

Because Australian law states that certain products that are manufacture in the way the orijen is must be irradated before being sold. This irradation has caused the vitamins to be effected in the food to the point where a cat can get sick/die from eating either Orijen Cat or Orijen Dog, thus due to our laws Orijen has decided to discontinue supply to Australia.

There is not a recall happening but they are not going to supply to Australia anymore - hence what you have now is all the orijen you will ever have. Look into Artemis Maximal Dog as it is the only other grain free kibble sold in Austrlia that is not sold by PP!

I know. It seems you've misread my post. Ooops ;) Yes there are not all that may foods out there on the Aussie Market without corn ;)

This is a good example of showing how the main ingredients are up to the first named fat or oil. If you look past the chicken fat listed third, the fifth ingredient is flavour. What would that be, about 0.05%? And the rest after that drop even lower percentage the further along the list you go. The 'chicken' listed fourth after the fat I'm guessing would probably be about 10% (has to be less than the fat/oil percentage) and makes up the bulk of the minor ingredients. This is a pretty good food as it's near pure just processed chicken and potato and little else. Actually, most of the foods on the list are pretty good. It's only when you get lower down into the list and things like corn and gluten start appearing as main ingredients (ie the bulk percentage of the food) is where the questions start getting raised. Sorry Anthony - but this food does not contain corn .... :rolleyes:

Very interesting - I just looked at Maximal Dog's (artemis) ingredient list and Chicken Meal is first thus the major ingredient. Yet I give my boy chicken frames and I know some people feed feet etc so I am not concerned about this factor as it is the only source of meat in this food. Ingredients Chicken Meal, Potatoes,Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols),Chicken, Natural Chicken Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Kelp, Carrots, Peas, Apples, Tomatoes, Blueberries, Spinach, Dried Skim Milk, Cranberry Powder, Rosemary Extract, Parsley Flake, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Barley Grass Extract, L-Carnitine, Enterococcus Faecieum, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Saccharomyces Cerevesiae Fermentation Solubles, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Protinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate,Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid.

The only grain free food not stocked by Pets Hell is Artemis Fresh Mix Maximal Dog. Poochmad - I would contact Judith on [email protected] , also it is not irradiated and my understanding can be feed to puppy/adult. Also do be aware that it does not contain Beet Pulp - a substance found in most dog foods to make stools firm, so a change to it may take the dog's digestive system a little while to get use to. edit 4sp

This is from the Artemis Online thread - GL has had fantastic results with her girls! Additionally if you do experience softer stools I understand that adding a couple of eggs whites binds up the stools and may make the transition easier! I thought feeding dogs egg whites without the yolk was unhealthy? Hmmm - I don't think a couple would hurt, not long term of course.

I agree with you BB! I mean a list of ingredients should be just that! An actual list not or's or possibilities, and that is why I am not sold on this product. Great $ wise but I like to know what is in my food, so I like to know what is in my dog's food as well. Looking forward here a response - I think I might email them too!

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=152699 This is from the Artemis Online thread - GL has had fantastic results with her girls! Additionally if you do experience softer stools I understand that adding a couple of eggs whites binds up the stools and may make the transition easier!

Can I take advantage of that too? How do I contact her to arrange a sample pack? Edit: This is Artemis you're talking about? Just email [email protected] you're query and Judith will get back to you within 48 hrs - generally much faster!

I'm not sure how fast the recall will be - perhaps if you got it from a shop they may still have it? No prob PC! Hope Master Darcy likes it!

One use that most people don't think of, is for that nasty chafe!

Remember to change over slowly and if runny poops for a bit (on of Goldielovers girls took at mth to adjust to no beet pulp in the food) try mixing a couple of egg whites into the food - will help firm up poops during the transition I understand!

Judith will send you a sample pack if you like or it comes in a 1.8kg bag!

Judith will send you a sample pack if you like or it comes in a 1.8kg bag!