rose of tralee

I go out and say to Lola, My bone now, and she smiles and wags her tail as in, Gee that was yummy, and I take it away. Wrap it in newspaper and freeze it for the next rubbish collection day. Her bones in the vast majority though are raw meaty ones which are meant to be eaten all up and are part of the meal itself e.g. a chicken frame + some extra meat

I fed beef brisket bones from '92 (avoiding the rib ends that some butchers put into the bag) and occasional thigh bones but am now prone to seeking out a wide variety of meaty bones from lighter weight or younger animals e.g. pork, chook, veal, lamb Weight bearing bones (that's pretty well all of them) from adult cattle are dense and hard, I'm sure I wore out one dog's teeth through providing the wrong bones and her persisting with them. Others have reported cracked molars from marrow bones and large dogs.

Lola (mature dal) eats pig head, other bones eg tailbone + pelvis, trotters, upper leg bones, and flesh without problem. She tolerates the fat fine but I would trim a roast of most fat for weight control. I buy a pork shoulder when the price is right and feed 3-4 meals off it. It's good to start any new meat variety off slowly and in small quantities until tolerance is obvious.

Quick comment re whole ox tail etc.......feeding a large meaty bone for a limited time e.g. 20 minutes then popping it back in the fridge for 'ron, cleaned/ hosed or not as deemed necessary has worked for me when I don't want a big session or burying to take place. Butchers do vary, as with pig's heads.....some won't halve them them saying it's hard on their saws, others up and offer. Good to have access to the brain.

Just curious as to whether the lab is carrying any excess weight; if so, would the owners be amenable to discussion along those lines? Neither a groomer nor a lab person unless spending time with tenants' grossly overweight lab counts

Some dogs go to town too hard on the large-animal weight bearing bones, can crack molars. Depends on the dog. So beef might be out, lamb, pig usually quite ok. I find pig's head good fun and challenging, you/ the neighbours mightn't be too fussed! I'd feed them the day before garbage collection, for obvious reasons.

I just want to say, don't be afraid to feed raw meaty bones. Think big portions that haven't been stripped of most flesh, that the dog has to work at for a period of time, but can eat all up. A chicken frame does have kidney (and maybe testes, and gizzard attached if you're lucky) but meagre for meat which is why I add some. Current favourites are beef/ lamb heart, roo meat. Dropping the cooking and the dry food in January worked out very well for our dogs (Dals); they did continue to clean up the human's vegies. We don't leave any meat! Sardines are fine, eggs are too (and a very natural food). Lots of shiny farm dogs testify to that

I bought maybe 2-3 batches of lenards mince before I figured I didn't want my dogs gulping down sans chewing. Part of the last lot was largely responsible for the extra foul smell when the freezer was left off accidentally. It took so many cleanings to fix...yuk! Supermarket chook pieces are discounted for a reason, last time I bought chicken marylands cut price I wasn't too impressed but confident my carnivores could handle them without problems. I'm totally happy with the frames from my nearest Lenards. Always fresh. It probably took less than 20 minutes the other day to put away about 30 meal bases. Each one was stuffed with either beef heart or roo meat and bagged individually. Sorry, OP!

Another Lonsdale supporter here.

along tuskyone's lines, it's always good to try suss out a cause even if the result seems relatively minor. Any change of diet?

It would be fine; if for any reason you don't feed it, your plants would love it!!

Once upon a time, if an animal needed dietary modification for a specific condition, the vet had to work from lists of basic foods that were found in the butcher, pet meatshop and supermarket. No reaching for prescription tucker. I reckon even the senior vets from that vintage wouldn't want to spend the time thinking about that now, with this kind of result. WRT a cat, but you get the drift. Male cat stone formed, escaped surgery, put on anti-crystal dry food. Probably due in part to sole intake of dry food but with other contributing factors, pussy became chronically constipated. Vet surgery response was to up the grease long-term if necessary, in the form of fur ball goo. Owner (my cuz) decided to introduce cat to some real food, fresh protein with 70% water built in. He is doing well, like the carnivore he is.

Bones such as weight bearing beef bones are dense enough to be around after a reasonable time and are the ones which will wear your dog's teeth down, even cause cracked molars. Marrow may be a problem for a good do-er too. I am quite happy to give a chicken carcase complemented by a slice of grassfed heart every day for a period if that's what suits the humans best. I feed raw so these are part of the diet anyway, not just there for dental reasons or enjoyment. Our girl is 25kg. If mine, I'd be well underway with introducing suitable chewy raw meaty bones and cartilage as mentioned above.

I think it's fine too; if you want to save some time and space, there is always the drop technique i.e drop the entire bag on a hard floor when it's starting to thaw to break bonds between the carcasses.

becks, could be your dog can cope with chicken meat per se but the marrow in the wing bones +/- the fat attached to the skin may make for this result. How about testing with a small portion, maybe as little as a 1" cube of breast meat? Is it unenhanced chook? Would a trial with organic be possible? Some dogs that don't do chicken cope with other raw animal cuts. And vice versa. Don't know why....at least we can surmise the roo is grass fed, Chaddy's Mummy

Consider whipworms also, they live closer to the end than hookworm therefore blood from them usually brighter. Don't panic if she otherwise seems well but would want to see it stop soon/ try establish a cause.

Great to hear your good result. These items of anecdotal evidence are so important to raw feeding, because *who* is going to provide the bucks to support controlled trials??

I read yours, ILuvAmStaffs, and then googled my user name <blush>. I can't even remember who used to call me this (I have had a ton of nick names) but that's really something to be connected to your dad OP, yep, ID would be helpful, know what you're dealing with. Would you like to post a pic? Along with asking your vet....

And, there's a rule which says if you find one tick, go looking for a second tick. In other words, yes to the daily whole body search. Safe removal is a whole 'nuther story.

I aim for one satisfying meal a day. This usually includes a meaty bone in which case that's it. The timing can vary depending on what's happening but prefer not to give it at night, at least not in winter when the outside door is shut and I'd have to get up on request.

Yes, to Lenards frames...not only inexpensive by the box but better quality than the supermarket ones imo. But I don't use their pet mince because of the bone content, I want the dogs to have suitable bones in their natural form. Love heart as a excellent muscle meat and am quite happy to pay $4/kilo for grass fed beef heart. My butcher orders in a case knowing I'll take it 2-3 hearts at a time. I cut slices to freeze with the frames, might pop a lamb kidney in too as the organ contribution. The chook kidneys are still in place but tiny! Always looking for variety and was excited about 1/2 pig's heads @ 50c. Old girl with worn teeth was able to get at the brain, and there's a lot of easy pickings around the back, also cartilage.

Just an anecdotal observation in our old girl's case: 13 yo Dal. She has dried up almost completely from major puddles despite regular outdoors trips and observations of piddling to very occasional minor leaks with a change in diet. All grains and dry food were removed in January. FWIW. Good luck with helping your nan, and her dog!

"(and you would know there are some very average pet owners) that the commercial diets of any description are better than the rubbish they would feed them at home. You only have to look at the number of overweight animals that come into vet clinics." Sorry, haven't got this quote thing worked out yet. Good point...firstly, the average joe eating high fat, high processed foods etc generates poor quality leftovers for the dog. Chips galore! In my grandmother's day (actually, my mother's day <g>, even my day), the dog may have been fed raw milk, fresh egg, raw meaty bone and trim etc plus quality leftovers. Secondly, there's the behavioral aspects of love-starved owners feeding dogs sweet biscuits because *he asked for it*. Puhleese.

On needle gauges: 18G x 1.5 inches (I go well back!) is a size commonly used for horse injections. As the numbers increase, the bore decreases so that 20, 21, even 23G would be used on small animals. I lived with a bottle of injectable Vit C but never needed to use it before it expired so can't personally say about the viscosity. Sounds like 18G might be the go for intra-muscular in an emergency. 18G x approx. 1 inch would be easier to handle if in a rush.

Bones are my current passion:) I think frames (buy mine by the box from Lenards; their frames include parson's nose, backs with kidneys attached a bonus, ribs, and some meat and fat) are useful as a source of bone and quality chewing, and I like that they are large enough to prevent swallowing whole syndrome for many/ most dogs. They are also soft enough for the old girl of the worn down teeth (too many hard bones?!) to manage, clean what's left of her fangs and massage her gums. There is a view that a bone which has the job of holding up a large animal e.g cow femur, is *too* hard on teeth. luke, I hear you...feel this doesn't happen in practice but prefer to feed thawed, or mostly thawed, frames; often with a nice slice of grass fed beef heart to complement them.