rose of tralee

Comparing my high rise tabby, Tommy, to your mob may seem a bit of a stretch...however, I sprouted him wheat. When it was ready, I would show him the tray and he would cry and jump up at it. Certainly hit the spot. This here dog adores lemon grass to the extent that I have to isolate it to allow it to grow. Do you fancy trying a pot or more of lemon grass? I think grasses have that mysterious X factor that can't be replicated with added vege. Free range canines :D

Re cropping...my stars, that was a call to arms...not. Methinks wildairbc has quite the wrong country. Re pyo, I'd be interested in stats from countries (Sweden comes to mind) where I understand there is less speying. Also wonder if there is a correlation between lap dogism (restricted exercise) and increased incidence of pyo v. well exercised bitches. Anecdotal: Miss Lola was speyed at age 8 last year, mainly for the convenience of the house sitters. Her reproductive tract was in excellent condition tho' the ovaries had been rather busy...dals do big litters, release lots of eggs, so I guess that was to be be expected. Miss forever now, as was always the intention.

As soon as I saw your title, I thought whipworm. Best for a diagnosis. edited to delete a word for clarity

As soon as I saw your title, I thought whipworm. Best for a correct diagnosis.

You might like to try beef cheek cut into long thin strips; they are challenging chewing, you can start narrow and work up appropriate to the dog. Not a bone substitute but not all meat either. If no go for dog, cheek makes a superb slow cooked casserole

Thanks, AS; a quick read was interesting. At least this vet has made some effort to discuss prey meats, and has recognised the importance of offal. Pigs do carry a significant level of parasites, both in the gut, but also throughout the meat and organs, and it is for this reason they have been seen as "un-healthy". I think most commercial producers in Australia would be rather surprised by this statement. My dog tolerates pork well, a sharp knife is good for the fat. Two meat sources which he/she has not mentioned: horse, which may be grass fed with minimal inputs, or with varying degrees of medication and supplements camel, usually herbage and grass fed

Thanks very much! The owner at our nearest Lenards served me and didn't charge, tossed a few necks in too. He was curious how I knew to ask... Lola was excited to smell these coming through the door, I popped one with the axe straightaway, will give her half at a time as she has more than enough bone in her rations.

How the beef animal is fed may have some bearing on dogs' reacting to it. Suspect that which spends a longer time in a feedlot more likely to cause problems than short fed or ideally grass fed. Introduce a liver by starting tiny portions and gradually build up quantity and frequency to desirable. Yep, feeding with a bony meal also helpful. Liver is the most organy of the offals. Variety is great but only one new thing at a time.

With the price of boned out meat, I suspect rightly or wrongly that folk are less likely to overdo the meat at the expense of bone. A bit irrelevant but I have this regular dialogue with the butchers I call in at on the highway: A pig's head, please. Do you want it for crab bait? For the dog. Ok. Frozen fresh, costs maybe a dollar, gives the dog enormous pleasure. What the butcher is saying is that the cheeks have been removed to make small goods. ncarter, cartilage is good stuff too...think glucosamine.

my2dogs, maybe it was in this thread that it was mentioned that Billinghurst has tossed the grains in more recent publications. In which case, good. Ah, Tasmania.......a quick Google says provisional eradication of hydatids achieved, that right? Does inspected offal turn up in butcher shops? I'm a world away from Tas, in Qld.

Whole frames a whole different animal from the ground variety. You can add a meat to frames to approximate the %age of bone that might be found naturally. Generally, 10-15% of the diet all the organs that are required (liver should be part of this proportion; heart is treated as a meat, albeit a rich one)

A prey model supporter here. A large Yahoo group is a another resource for questions. my2boys, some pointers as to where you live as regards difficulty in sourcing variety? cheers Rose

Your experience points to one of the reasons I am an un-fan of ground chicken frames. The proportion of bone is well above the % required over time, plus when ground the bone content is less likely to hang around the stomach in the acid bath. Possibly these guys' digestive pH, enzymes aren't up to scratch yet either. Lots of suggestions here, also teeny amounts of organ esp. liver introduced slowly are powerhouses of nutrition and will help with a normal gut transition time.

googling it once, a baby forum response indicated it had mineral oil ingredient; apparently not compelled to state this. One dose would do nothing worse than give the trots, yes. Presumably there may be truth in the statement as I notice a competing brand, can't remember the name, promoting itself as being free of that ingredient. I'll be some time in using up the current supplies of Lucas' (on the humans mainly), mayn't even bother changing brands.

indiegirl: 'I love the idea of a raw diet.. its just so labour intensive...' and OP, you might like to read up on prey style (raw by definition), there are a # of happy users here. Sorry I don't have time to hunt down the comprehensive thread, which is only a page or two back probably. The variety in the prey model comes from sourcing parts from different species, tossing in regular eggs, maybe supplementing with fish oil. Some folk prefer to make out a weekly plan and stick to it, others more flexible. Personally, I am cool with dogs with consuming good quality people leftovers a la Lonsdale but she who ate *everything* is RIP. The only child is very selective! Got to do our own pan licking On chicken frames, a more determined person than me might like to dig out the kidney which is welded inside the backbone and see what percentage it makes up. If a male, the 'nads may still be there too for extra variety. Pity no liver, which is THE organ. It's a happy day when the heart is still inside

Basically what Tess said. Think though, 'raw parts of animal', many so-called RMBs have had a fair whack of muscle, connective tissue, fat removed....messing up the naturalness somewhat. Remember eggs too.

It's very good that this is being discussed, vets who can balance the bottom line with animal welfare have nothing to fear.

an imbalance of anything is not good, and applies to natural foods too. Why not look to the composition of prey animals, and what the well researched wolves eat?

Are you thinking about retained ovary tissue? If that was the case, you'd possibly see some physical evidence too, like swelling of external parts, nipples. How long since she was speyed? Sometimes the smallest thing (invisible to humans) will trigger an attack. I've seen comments on some speyed bitches becoming aggressive. I'm interested (without extrapolating) in reports of the effects on women who lose their ovaries before 40; seems dementia may be more likely. Is your vet likely to be interested?

I see pork rind come up in woolies butchery section. Cut into long strips it has added value chewyness. Her Lolaness doesn't need much help in the good do'er department but I pass some over to the rels for their hard working dogs, to supplement lean meat meals.

"While on this topic, is it ok to feed my dog the whole chicken (ie. the pack from the supermarket) ? I was told drumstick bone will damage their intestine and throat, so does it mean I have to take away the drumstick before giving it to them ?" It would have to be an ancient chook before I'd worry about its leg bones, with dogs whose gastric juices are accustomed to at least some raw animal. That the drumstick in this case is still attached is a good thing as there will be less opportunity for gulping, snarfng and other bad behaviour. However, if your dog is inexperienced with a particular food item, it's reassuring (to you) to observe, discretely so's not to induce these behaviours. My Lagotto girl will be 8 this year and she is currently fed 1 cup of Proplan senior a day (split into 2 meals), plus sardines once a week. I would like to substitute either her breakfast or dinner kibble for some raw meaty bones. How much would be the equivalent of 1/2 cup of kibble? (i.e. one chicken neck? half a chicken frame?) I'm too ?lazy to hunt down the specifications but would suggest a meatier part like a complete thigh. or a wing with some breast attached and a wee portion of organ once a week once she's adapted to the chicken. Use an eyeball/ fingertip assessment to judge her condition and adjust accordingly.

That's good! Three mild cases in our family (well, our family's dogs!) in the 70s. Corgi, cattle dog, and a GSD. They lived on cattle properties with ready exposure to horses. There was a thought that spear grass barbs may have provided the entrance site.

'The advantage of flax seed oil over fish oils is there is no danger of overdosing on vitamin A.' Fish oil is different from cod liver oil which is much higher in vitamins A and D. Fish oil does not target the liver as source. Fish oils ain't all equal in quality (thinking contaminants) and if I gave it regularly I'd be looking harder into what was the 'cleanest' brand. But overdosing on a good fish oil shouldn't be a concern.

[quote name='westiemum' I'd love to up the offal and prey foods but am terrified he'll put on weight I found the late Liddie (old dal) who was a gutz (no polite way of putting it) more satisfiable with prey type meals. Lack of routine is a good thing I am convinced, and larger meals fed when you, not the dog, determine. Sorry not to be more specific but it's about becoming personally relaxed and deciding with a good do'er not to feel bad if they may be peckish. E.g Lola's last few days (another Dal): Thursday, fished a few things, mainly lamb, out of the freezer in the morning. She got to wait while they defrosted somewhat on the clothesline. They added up to a moderately large meal, she was visibly full afterwards. Friday a travel day, no food given beforehand nor on arrival after dark so as to minimise chances of being asked to go outside during the night. (wild dog risk on a property). Quietly obvious she 's hungry this morning so tucked into a big piece of lamb flap with appropriate gusto. I guess with your fellow don't be afraid to feed lean meat meals some of the time, not every meal has to be based on a bone nor have smidge of organ incorporated. Certain bones can be extra good exercise by the chewing they provide of skin/ connective tissue / accessible cartilage (thinking pig's trotter, chicken feet......). A bonus, cartilage is a source of chondroitin for the ones with arthritis.

Our Dal Liddie ( RIP last July aged rising 14) had frequent bones in the 10 years we had her. Her front teeth were worn down to the gum line, and her molars weren't a lot of use either. I was never a great fan of marrow bones even before the reasons were explained to me on a yahoo group but she was exposed to them occasionally and would have worked hard on them. I presume she had too many brisket bones up until a couple of years ago, possibly ones that had too much rib attached. Sorry, old girl! I am much more into less dense stuff these days with Lola: frames, flaps, pig's heads and feet, body parts of chook etc I think the answer to the OP's question is, Yes, quite likely.